Comparing Spear and Halberd?

[Silverwolfer]

Question in a reality sense, of using foam weapons and such, is their much use for a halberd, or would I have a better advantage of sticking with a spear or quarter staff? I am thinking of making the halberd, but I am somewhat worried that it will be unwieldy or maybe just not as useful as a spear, although maybe a polearm and shield may be in the cards.

Anyone got any thoughts on it?

[Slagar]

Depends on the build of a halberd. The sterotypical halberd (like, a poleaxe) would be near impossible for a new foam-smith to build, and then even closer to impossible for a brand new fighter to use successfully. In Belegarth, the roles historically filled by halberds tend to use glaives instead. Glaives are sexy, and clinically proven to cure cancer. If you're interested in working on pole fighting, both glaive and spear are very viable options in our game. For preference, I'd say rock a glaive. Enjoy, dude.

[Tiberius Claudius]

Forkbeard has put out some good quotes on the subject:

....Halberds, pole axes, basicly anything but sword shaped pole arms are **** worthless in this game.
IRL: the heavier head/spikes on a halberd grab people off horses and smash through ~impenatrable plate armor.
8 Bel, they flap off people and score hits. They act excatly like a sword shaped polearm except that they break faster and flat people all the time. It pretty much a broken design right from the start.
If you DON'T want to look like a retarded teen, just make a glaive and try to learn about fighting for a while......
Im sure you will refuse my good and correct advice and make some homo super ax.
I look forward to laughing at you in the future.
fb

(Context: the person he was responding to wasn't listening to a lot of good advice)

Essentially, glaives are what are best in this game when it comes to long range chopping and stabbing. Limiting yourself to a small striking surface on one side can be dangerous and, well, limits what you can do with the weapon. Learn to stab like a * to take the shots in small openings. Any gorilla can swing a red and break shields.

[Silverwolfer]

I am use to using a quarterstaff, and holding it on its back end to poke folks with, I was just curious on the actually usefulness of adding a dedicated blade hitting edge. I have seen some butterknife (( Hitting the person and dragging it down to make actual contact with hitting edge to score point))

So the general viewpoint is to make a spear over a halbred, but make a glaive over a spear?

[Tiberius Claudius]

A q-staff in this game is always a blue weapon. On the upside, you can strike and stab with both ends. On the downside, you can never break shields with it and it takes two hits to injure a target under armor.

A Glaive, or any red weapon, will break a shield with two, two-handed swings of sufficient force, and will injure a target under armor in one, two-handed swing of sufficient force. Drawbacks are weight, speed, and that only one end does damage, but pros are reach and power.

As far as a dedicated hitting edge, I assume you mean flat blade vs round tube.......there are two camps on that. I'm on the side of flat blades and I'll leave the matter there.

Dragging a weapon across a target, i.e. a "draw cut", does no damage in our game. Sure, in real life you can cut people like that, but every swing needs to have that "pop" of sufficient force to do damage. If it lacks that, then there is no valid hit. Also, a weapon may only damage one target per swing. If you swing and land soft, or hard, on a target and then draw it down, no other targets are affected.

I would say that the view of most players is to either build a spear or a glaive, and not necessarily a halberd at all. If you build a glaive then you get to swing and stab. (work the stabs to be kickass) It's heavier, but you have some versatility. If you build a spear, you can only stab and people can grip your weapon out at the end, but its light and quick and you can really poke some folks, maybe even have them make "the noise".

[Silverwolfer]

So the realistic end, would that I would want to keep a long spear, or light quarterstaff, and keep a dagger or mace, to poke or prod folks that get a lil to close or grabby?

Right now am remembering my 8 foot quarterstaff I used when I was 16, and having a dagger strapped to the middle for a easy pull and stab if got entangled. Ill have to fiddle with things and think of what I want to use.

[Tiberius Claudius]

If you want speed, range, and light weight without the ability to swing and break shields, yes, use a spear and a sidearm.

Using a q-staff will handicap you. They're not nearly as useful in our game as they can be in real life. My suggestion is don't do it.

[Silverwolfer]

*looks over the rules* Does a mace fall under blue, due to its lack of size? and yes ill be going with spear, although, Ill probly use a lil thicker pipe, then whats written in the rules to avoid the whip effect, have hurt to many folks with such things, it adds more impact then intended at times.

[Slagar]

If you make a mace that's under 48" long then yes, that's a blue weapon. You could make one over 48' that'd be red if you wanted.

[Forkbeard]

I have the only working quarterstaff in this game. I can say that will full confidence.
It is worthless for serious fighting in this sport. it just does not work the same way as a staff does in real life.

Now, on to what really does work. Spear's work. Do not **** around with anything less than a bandshoppe pole. they are 1" hollow fiberglass tubes. You will probly never break one. When you make a spear, follow Arrakis' instructions. Use all the expensive materials he says. If you do this, and do it correctly, you will have your spear for years and it will need no additional work. I make mine 4" wide. Try to keep your 3.5"-4" wide as well. Make it 8' long+whatever the foam adds to the length.

Make a sheath from armor grade leather for a really short sword with a low profile stab tip. This is key. You need a side arm to make it with S&B people on the field. Making an all foam shield about 15" across and strapping it to your lead forearm is also smart.

If you want to really be effective with pole weapons at events, make a glaive(sword on a long pole) the same legth as your spear. Again, do not **** around with materials. Make it on a bandshoppe pole and use high quality foam and the best instructions. Put a stab tip on it for the love of all the Gods.

Use your spear at practice about 80% of the time. Spear teaches you everything your need to know about defense on our battlefields when using a polearm. It forces you to learn to be smart and wait for your opening and how to backpeddal and dodge while stripper dancing around the pole. If you use a glaive all the time, you never really learn this stuff because you don't have to. Plus glaives wear out fast and spears just never really do, so your weapons last alot longer.
FB

[Silverwolfer]

Ill have to look into that, money is very tight for me in such things, pvc, ducktap, and cloth cover tend to be where i rest on my items, the last quarterstaff I made about 7 years ago, the foam is sorta....compressed by now, but still sitting with not a tear on it.

Just doing a small google, looks like that pole will cost me around 30-45$

Am thinking with the spear ill go stabbing point, with semi long handle base, with the possibly of a shield although more a buckler, until money allows for more then that.I tend to get weather strip for grip and combat areas ((rainy here).

I rember using a spear/sword type thingy, that was good for poking, sometimes having a matching set for both hands, and mobility tends to be the name of the game for spears. If you stand in one place your kinda dead.

Overall, I don't see myself going up against shields and winning, probably be better to disengage and pick a different target, or team up with another to distract and jab.

[Tiberius Claudius]

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/marching ... -flag-pole

8 foot, fiberglass - $15.95 + tax, free standard ground shipping. Do it

PVC and duct tape are unsafe, ridiculous, and will flex out (45* for non-javelin weapons).

Don't build anything until you get money for good materials. Sounds like you need to review the rules and meet up with vets who know what they're doing when it comes to foam smithing. Meet up at your local realm. Where are you from?

[bo1]

so looking into a 6'6" glaive will net you a ton of fun at practices. going 8'6" at event is tons of fun do to the astatic nature of lines here in the east. in the west it seems lines are a bit more chaotic, but i have limited experience out west.

spears are best at 8'6", and are more difficult to use than the others. but you do learn the most quickly with them. a glaive is just a spear that when you miss the stab, you still have the option of hacking at a leg/arm, heck even body but most fighters are not that sloppy.


btw fork, there are a few more bow staffs in the game, and they still suck. at fest i had my new 6'6" hammer, amazing fun at events.

[Silverwolfer]

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/marching-band/styleplus-black-fiberglass-flag-pole

8 foot, fiberglass - $15.95 + tax, free standard ground shipping. Do it

PVC and duct tape are unsafe, ridiculous, and will flex out (45* for non-javelin weapons).

Don't build anything until you get money for good materials. Sounds like you need to review the rules and meet up with vets who know what they're doing when it comes to foam smithing. Meet up at your local realm. Where are you from?

Unsafe? Flex out..? Flex out as in lose its padding from repeating impact? in that case yes, it will take that, took about 2 years for my staff to lose its padding, if talking about bow to its own weight, I used a thicker pipe, with a small rubber weight sheathed in the center, to help keep it centered. For comparison, this pipe was about 8 ft long, that mostly ended up being grabbed on the end and put into a spear like thrusts instead of rowing attacks that the staff does.Unsafe...I wouldn't say that Smithing end, I may need some help in as it seems standards have raised of late, of what is acceptable.

Thanks for the pole link, that will be great in using, I prefer the sweet spot for length between 6.5 to 7.5 feet. The honest truth is, I need to get back into the scene of late, the local club meets up at times that I find difficult to meet, so I am still debating if the money is worth the time , if can't make it that often.

[Tails]

I have the only working quarterstaff in this game. I can say that will full confidence.

Is that the 1/4 staff that's 7ft long and acts more like a spear with a back stab? If so how did that go? well enough to try it, or is it still not well enough to be useful on the field?

[Osric/Mageta]

I have the only working quarterstaff in this game. I can say that will full confidence.

Is that the 1/4 staff that's 7ft long and acts more like a spear with a back stab? If so how did that go? well enough to try it, or is it still not well enough to be useful on the field?

It's just about the doofiest thing you've ever seen. And not terribly effective. Fork's the only person I've seen use it to any effect and that's him trying really really hard. The few times I've played around with it I've just given up and used a spear instead. I'd really like to see somebody squirly pick it up and try to go all darth maul with it though. It would be comical.

[Tails]

Maybe it's the noob in me that really want that Idea to work.

[Forkbeard]

It's a nonsense weapon.
It can only be blue, so it can not break shields.
It wieghs about 17 oz. it is 3"thick and has stab tips. It only redeeming qualities.
It's fun to use, but you never really attack people. you defend for evera dn get a sneak attak once in a while.
Lame sauce.
* new guy/OP: if you can't see yourself fighting an S&B fighter by yourself and winning, why the **** are you using a spear at all. You can ABSOLUTELY own S&B guys with a spear, you just have to be smart and PRACTICE.
FB

[Silverwolfer]

S&B, from the way conversation has been going have armor, and folks tend to hobble around the S&B either being noob fodder, or a good solid teamwork. Never been a fan of lines, prefer mobility and flanking.

The ultimate reason why I don't like sword and board?Takes to long to take them apart cutting limbs and arms to get into the meat area, quicker to take out others or to poke and flank while others push. I am not a duelist.

[Forkbeard]

I'm done. You do not want to learn.
This is why I stay out of this forum.
FB

[Silverwolfer]

lol......you haven't offered any advice on fighting style, only thing you have done is criticize and offering building tips, thankful atlest for the positive impression of others, that would prove a positive overcloud, of your own negativity that you have shown.

If you don't like my answers, you didn't have to respond or keep suggesting things. I told you my play style, am not omg lets master a certain way of fighting. I run, I strife , and I poke and backstab. Why would you criticize for how someone decides to fight? I have been receptive to what folks have said, and built off and offered counter arguments and accepted things that are better then my own ideas, I have not shown disrespect or lack of acceptance that you have done today.

[Slagar]

Don't sweat it, man. You're fine, you're just new. As new members go, you've been insightful and agreeable. FB has just had his fill of new guys right now. He's bowing out, not trying to pick a fight.

I direct your attention to the SKBC videos on pole fighting. You'll learn tons, Axgar is a monster.

[Silverwolfer]

these?

http://profoamfighter.blogspot.com/2010 ... hting.html

[Slagar]

Absolutely not. Seriously, no.

These:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGQCx14_LVg

[Silverwolfer]

oh thats cool, wish the guy was a lil louder, but I can learn from it.

[Slagar]

Yeah, the videos themselves aren't the highest quality, but the material is. One of these days they'll get some pro-quality video gear at SKBC.

[The Great Gigsby]

As one of a handful of dedicated spear fighters (along with Forkbeard), I've been staying out of this discussion. Have some truthy bullet points.

- Fighting with a spear will get you killed a lot early on and you'll probably progress slower than any other style. It's still the best way to develop skills fighting at that range and I recommend it over a glaive for learning fundamentals of fighting at range.

- I encourage any novice fighter to pick up a less specialized style, such as sword and board or florentine for at least a couple years before switching to a range weapon. You'll develop faster, build greater confidence in your skills, and generally be more of an asset to your team.

- I advocate less than half of what's in Grumio's tutorials.

- Do not use PVC to build weapons. Ever.

[Silverwolfer]

In response

-agreed- although i've never been a line fire, so if am still good at what I use to do, never stop moving and using my reach to keep them at bay, or drag them back to the main group to hash out if get ganged up on. Am not expert, but I was slightly above average in the group I use to play with way back when.

-Have done basic sword with Aikido Aikiken, although some of those would not be very useable in the field.

-not sure am rusty, will review and remove that which doesn't work.

-What was used at the time ((We are talking like 2002 -2004 ))

[The Great Gigsby]

My comments were general and loosely based around the fact that I'm not familiar with the realm River Road and that I've never met you at a local meeting or event (that I can recall) so I can't really comment on your skill level, only on what you've presented online.

There are a ton of great Belegarth fighters in Oregon to learn from. I encourage you to get in touch with members from your local realm (Tir na nOg) and attempt to make it to as many events as you can. Talking and sparring with someone in person is worth 10,000 words. This forum is really best for theoretical discussions, not practical ones.

[Silverwolfer]

*thumbs up* Found there facebook group, will be meeting up with them this sunday. Think over all, i've learned what I can from this topic thread, and as the Op am satisfied with what tools I have received and think am going to call it a day on it.