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 Post subject: SCA Fighting
PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 10:51 pm 
Skull Crusher
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Location: Irvine, CA
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Realm: Korriban and Elysium
Unit: First Order of the Sith Empire
Favorite Fighting Styles: Sith Lord
I'm sure that there has been a post somewhere in the past of a similar nature, but admittedly, I am too lazy to search for it. My apologies. In any case, I got a chance to do some SCA-style fighting this past weekend at the event put on by the Las Vegas Dagorhir realm (my second time doing this sort of fighting). In reflecting on that enjoyable experience, I was wondering in what ways doing SCA fighting positively affects Bel fighting? (Conversely, I'd imagine there are some drawbacks to doing SCA after having done Bel for a while). Once the money is there, I plan on getting my own kit of SCA gear and getting involved in what few SCA events there are out here in CA, but by no means will I be investing my time in SCA more than I do in Bel. I just wanted to know what positive (and perhaps negative) changes I can expect to see in the way I fight Bel, since I will continue to do that predominantly.

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 Post subject: Re: SCA Fighting
PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 7:43 am 
Hero
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Location: Arcadia, CA
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Favorite Fighting Styles: sword and board
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Cheeseheart,

Probably one of the most useful things SCA fighting brings to the table is body mechanics and how to utilize them effectively in fighting. Being able to swing a 12 oz. sword is something that just about everyone can do without body mechanics but being able to swing a 2-3 lb. piece of rattan is a different story. When I did SCA fighting, probably the biggest adjustments were not hitting below the knee and learning to effectively protect my head. BTW, there are a couple of very large SCA wars within about 4 hours of SoCal: Great Western Wars which is off the 5 close to Frazier Park with an attendance of 3K and Estrella War out by Phoenix which can have anywhere between 3-6K people.

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 Post subject: Re: SCA Fighting
PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 7:51 am 
Slayer
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Location: Champaign, IL
Started Fighting: 18 Oct 2006
Realm: Numenor
Unit: The Amyr
Favorite Fighting Styles: Sword and Board
The detriments you'll see depend on how technically advanced your Bel fighting is already. If your guard is too high, or your don't sword block properly, or your footwork isn't up to par yet, you won't really see any negative effects. If your form is picture perfect, for the sake of argument, then those are the parts that SCA tends to mess with. I notice my guard creeps up, my footwork gets lazy because they can't hit my knees, and my shield jumps over a lot because nobody there punishes me for it. Oh, also the speed at which you're used to fighting will slow down a little, since that game exists at just a different pace.

The benefits are pretty universal. Your body mechanics clean right the hell up, so you can hit hard enough for it to actually count.

Your shot selection and reading improve dramatically, because that game moves at a slow enough pace that it's much easier to see and react to your opponents' actions, getting you in the mindset of consciously doing so.

Your attitude will improve dramatically (mine did). Being outwardly rude in the SCA just doesn't fly, nobody there puts up with it. So Bel fighters with big mouths (like yours truly, and large sections of this game) get some practice keeping them shut.

The last big one for me was that you just lose any fear of getting hit in Bel. I don't flinch anymore, it's hard to make me overblock by hitting me hard, all that jazz. After the first time some knight takes a stick of rattan to your head for ten minutes straight, Bel weapons lose some of their instinctive threat. It really helped me start focusing on technique more in Bel, when I wasn't just reacting to a threat.

Overall, the worst possible negative outcomes are pretty minimial. The slowing down bit takes some re-adjusting, as anyone who cross-games heavily has noticed. But unless you leave Bel for long stretches to go dive into the SCA, none of that will happen that badly. The positive benefits are huge, and will drastically improve your game. I encourage all my friends to try it on occasion, just for the new lessons it offers. Most places even have loaner gear, so you don't need to sink ridiculous amounts of money into a backup hobby anytime soon.

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 Post subject: Re: SCA Fighting
PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 1:02 pm 
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Location: Idaho Falls, ID
Started Fighting: 01 Jan 1993
Realm: Ebonhold
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Favorite Fighting Styles: Sword and board, spear
ya, what they said.

If you fight on a larger field, your awareness you gain in bel will make you a force on smaller skirmish sized battles in SCA. Me, Keagan, and spriggot held a 20' wide bridge our first big event, vs 15+ experienced fighters for 10 minutes of them regening, before they took the three of us out. We had angles and movements they were not used to, and immediately made a name for ourselves. We probably downed 30 combatants before they got to us.

Sca is fun, wish i had more time to keep doing it your fundamentals with improve a ton.

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 Post subject: Re: SCA Fighting
PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 1:15 pm 
Grizzled Veteran
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SCA heavy fighting is fun. What all these guys said is true. The only problem you'll likely encounter, is loaner gear will be ill fitting and harder to move around in than armor you've made or had made specifically for you. Def. worth trying out before you invest the money to get SCA armor though.

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 Post subject: Re: SCA Fighting
PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 4:33 pm 
Berserker
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Favorite Fighting Styles: IN THE BUFF
Just remember that your forearms and shins still exist when you go back to the Bel field.

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 Post subject: Re: SCA Fighting
PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 4:36 pm 
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Location: near Newark, NJ
Started Fighting: 17 Jun 2007
Realm: Goldenvale+East Kingdom
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Favorite Fighting Styles: No gimmicks.
The biggest negative of SCA fighting is how insular and unaccepting their communities can be. Most of them still rely on Yahoo! groups and mailing lists and actually calling one another on land-line telephones and stuff; basically no practice in a good 3 hour diameter chunk of my entire Kingdom (East) has a full set of loaner gear that will fit a whole single person; you get the "Oh, you've done some fighting? Oh, it was with foam? LOL no, you haven't done any fighting, shut up and get on the pell" attitude; they all already know all of the events and practices and people and no one ever thinks to warn ~you~ about them; and you will find lots of people who act willing to help with things like finding armor and weapons but all they do is talk and nothing gets done.

The fighting is fun, though.

Fight Bel or Amt often enough to keep our target areas and speed in mind and you'll be fine.


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 Post subject: Re: SCA Fighting
PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 5:05 pm 
Slayer
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Location: Champaign, IL
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Favorite Fighting Styles: Sword and Board
Dude, maybe that's just East Kingdom. My experience in both Midrealm and Northshield has been the exact opposite. Like, I've had my entire kit either donated to me, sold to me at cost, or been walked through making it. I've been offered rides without paying gas to every event where there was an open seat, and I've been offered crash space and free food when I got there. Not that I've always taken those offers, but they're constants of my experience here. I literally cannot speak highly enough of the SCA community around here.

Edit: Also, the fighters here have been very accepting of my having a non-SCA fighting background. Most of them haven't heard of Bel, and have only the flimsiest ideas about Amt, but they just accept that I know my way around a stick. One or two have even asked for links to the vids section here to steal some of the techniques.

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 Post subject: Re: SCA Fighting
PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 5:09 pm 
Slayer
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Osric/Mageta wrote:
Just remember that your forearms and shins still exist when you go back to the Bel field.


Forearms still count in the SCA. Some dudes in steel bazubands have definitely missed that memo, but I still hack the **** out of forearms when people leave their elbows in their ears.

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 Post subject: Re: SCA Fighting
PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 6:09 pm 
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Slagar wrote:
Dude, maybe that's just East Kingdom. My experience in both Midrealm and Northshield has been the exact opposite. Like, I've had my entire kit either donated to me, sold to me at cost, or been walked through making it. I've been offered rides without paying gas to every event where there was an open seat, and I've been offered crash space and free food when I got there. Not that I've always taken those offers, but they're constants of my experience here. I literally cannot speak highly enough of the SCA community around here.

Edit: Also, the fighters here have been very accepting of my having a non-SCA fighting background. Most of them haven't heard of Bel, and have only the flimsiest ideas about Amt, but they just accept that I know my way around a stick. One or two have even asked for links to the vids section here to steal some of the techniques.



Definitely possible. As in everything where you are and who's involved locally counts for a lot. I had just been told the story you're selling by others and when I showed up, it was very much not the case; it's important to be aware that not ever group is equally welcoming or desirous of new membership.

Scorpio and I have been actively un-helped in some cases, including being told we would need armor pieces that are not required by EK rules to even get on the field at a fight practice.

*shrug*


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 Post subject: Re: SCA Fighting
PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 8:26 pm 
Slayer
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Favorite Fighting Styles: Sword and Board
That's ****. Sorry to hear it. Come hit Madison sometime for top-shelf stick and un-bunched panties.

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 Post subject: Re: SCA Fighting
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 9:09 am 
Gladiator
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Favorite Fighting Styles: Sword and Board
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Arrakis are you in *? If so, that must be localized to freaking TN, or where ever you are these days. Down in the Barony of South Downs, that does not happen! If you decided to go to Gulf Wars, and I encourage everyone to do so, come find me out there. I still go by Kensman Bam out there, so the people that know me can point you in right direction, also look for our wolf head unit symbol.

I should be authorized by then and will be fighting this next Gulf War!

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 Post subject: Re: SCA Fighting
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 2:41 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:24 pm
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Location: near Newark, NJ
Started Fighting: 17 Jun 2007
Realm: Goldenvale+East Kingdom
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Favorite Fighting Styles: No gimmicks.
No, I'm in CT for grad school; East Kingdom. I'm in Barony Beyond the Mountain, strictly, but I go to the fight practice in the Barony of Bergental in MA.

I wish it weren't so, and the people aren't bad folks, I don't think; they just don't seem very interested in recruiting or outsiders. They're very inwardly focused up here.


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 Post subject: Re: SCA Fighting
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 5:59 pm 
Skull Crusher
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Location: Irvine, CA
Started Fighting: 15 Dec 2008
Realm: Korriban and Elysium
Unit: First Order of the Sith Empire
Favorite Fighting Styles: Sith Lord
I'm not going to be needing loaner armor. A lot of the stuff that I use for Bel will work well for SCA with only some slight modifications or additions (hard plastic knee and elbow pads, a gorget, and a gambeson underneath my torso armor to help absorb force from the blows...oh, and a metal helm and cup :P). I've already tried it, and enjoy it a lot. There may be some pictures in the King's Tournament event album of me actually fighting. I've already got a unit waiting for me to help me with my armor and fighting gear, so I think I'm good to go. But thanks for all the advice and insight folks. Perhaps someday I shall see you on a field that is not covered in foam.

EDIT: Proof!


Image

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 Post subject: Re: SCA Fighting
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 6:07 pm 
Recruit
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Favorite Fighting Styles: Numenorean arrogance
I have to agree with Arrakis. We've been to two practices so far. The first time we went, it was understandable that they didn't have any loaner gear since they didn't know we were coming (although I'm still of the opinion that any good fighting group should have loaner gear ready for interested people who pass by). The second time they had a full week's notice and STILL no one lifted a finger to help. And I'm hardly someone that needs to be convinced to swing sticks of wood at people's heads. I've decided that there's nothing to do except to kit up on my own, train, come back and then light the ever living crap out of the locals (in the spirit of representing Bel well.) :)


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 Post subject: Re: SCA Fighting
PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 6:18 am 
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Location: Idaho Falls, ID
Started Fighting: 01 Jan 1993
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Favorite Fighting Styles: Sword and board, spear
The group here is nothing but accepting. They even stormed our bel practice once, all the knights, and dukes they said we tried their game, it was only fair to try ours. Some still go to our events occasionally.

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 Post subject: Re: SCA Fighting
PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 11:58 am 
Forum Gordon Ramsay
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Favorite Fighting Styles: Acerbic wit and sassy one-liners
Yeah, I am pretty stoked to get involve with SCA. I've wanted to since I was in middle school lol. I don't have surplus cash to drop on a kit and am hoping the group closest to me is going to be willing to lend me some gear. I plan on attending and if there is no gear, hitting the pell or talking to people. I plan on taking this process slow in the hopes that it will show respect to the sport. I live in An Tir, there's a large EMP presence north of me. A couple of Amtgard buddies want in as well, and luckily they have most of the gear. Aleksii is planning on coming down for their once a month classes/practices and will probably use that as my first introduction.
Also I will reiterate;
Duke Brannos, Duke Sean, Duke Sven and Duke Uther(pretty sure nazi's secretly built that guy lol).

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Bishop wrote:
Overall I believe the article was positive for our image, loosely defining us as a sadomasochist anti-larp. I'm ok with that. http://www.vice.com/en_ca/read/LARP-harder

Caleidah wrote:
But, his sensei passed that style down to him! Literal hours of tradition!


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 Post subject: Re: SCA Fighting
PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 12:24 pm 
Gladiator
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Location: Cumming, GA
Started Fighting: 03 Jul 2005
Realm: Kenevara
Unit: Cu Sith
Favorite Fighting Styles: Sword and Board
Glaive/Spear
Red
Unarmed
Is anyone planning on going to Gulf Wars this year? If so, we should try to hook up at night at least, or try and fight together! I think it would be good to meet and fight with more crossovers.

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 Post subject: Re: SCA Fighting
PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 2:41 pm 
Slayer
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Location: Champaign, IL
Started Fighting: 18 Oct 2006
Realm: Numenor
Unit: The Amyr
Favorite Fighting Styles: Sword and Board
Gulf doesn't fall across my Spring break. It's about a 30% chance I can make it. Here's hoping.

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 Post subject: Re: SCA Fighting
PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 10:56 pm 
Boo Radley
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Location: Central IL
Started Fighting: 03 Jan 2009
Realm: Grond
Unit: Sons of Sylas
Favorite Fighting Styles: Boot and Bottle
Dealing with Axed Root (Ames, IA), we hit a HUGE anti-Bel mentality. At every opportunity, they'd deride us with little/no provocation. On a few instances, they'd be recruiting and would specifically state that they had high garb standards and fought hard unlike the "tappy boffer game on campus." I set out to fix it while President there, going to their practices for a while, talking with them, and constantly inviting them to our practices. The first thing I noticed while fighting with them was that I was blowing up their fighters. The knight of the realm and I would go roughly 60-40 in his favor, and he had been fighting for quite a while. Everyone else fell lower. Stopped fighting when they started getting overly salty about all of the hip chops that I was killing them with.

When they finally came to our practice (three of them) they left within half an hour, because they couldn't handle the difference in speed and made no effort to try and have fun.

This isn't to say that they're bad folks. I regularly played 40k with a few of the guys at the local game shop, and the non-coms were all in high spirits most of the time, but just a note of the attitudes to watch out for.

Also: Looking to get back into SCA Heavy around the Wolfpack area. Failing that, potentially Rapier. Need an excuse to fix my footwork, anyway.

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 Post subject: Re: SCA Fighting
PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 11:43 pm 
Slayer
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Location: Champaign, IL
Started Fighting: 18 Oct 2006
Realm: Numenor
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Favorite Fighting Styles: Sword and Board
The Bloomington group, Baile na Scolairi, were very welcoming when I visited. Some decent stick there too. Good stuff. Also, there's a relatively large one-day event down in Champaign in January. I'm planning to make that, at the moment. Definitely worth the drive from BloNo.

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 Post subject: Re: SCA Fighting
PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 12:41 am 
Forum Gordon Ramsay
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Started Fighting: 20 Apr 2006
Realm: Pyke and O.G. Babylonian
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Favorite Fighting Styles: Acerbic wit and sassy one-liners
I'm trying to figure out a way to omit my involvement with Belegarth without actually lying lol. I've got time to figure how to go about that lol.

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Bishop wrote:
Overall I believe the article was positive for our image, loosely defining us as a sadomasochist anti-larp. I'm ok with that. http://www.vice.com/en_ca/read/LARP-harder

Caleidah wrote:
But, his sensei passed that style down to him! Literal hours of tradition!


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 Post subject: Re: SCA Fighting
PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 11:35 am 
Slayer
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Location: Champaign, IL
Started Fighting: 18 Oct 2006
Realm: Numenor
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Favorite Fighting Styles: Sword and Board
When they ask if I've done anything like this before, I just say, "A little, but not much really". Which, by some standards, is absolutely true. After you smoke them a few times, and stick around for a bit, you're in. Then nobody cares what you did before you showed up. I leave Bel at the door and don't mention it for the first couple months. Same way I'd expect an SCA or NERO or Amt dude to come in with an open mind, instead of hung up on some other game and how Bel is different than what they're used to.

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 Post subject: Re: SCA Fighting
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 11:59 am 
Underling
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Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2005 4:40 pm
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Location: Houston, TX
Started Fighting: 01 Oct 1994
Unit: Rogue Company
Favorite Fighting Styles: Two Sword
My advice , coming from a very active SCA fighter. The better you are the less you need to talk. Find a knight or duke and just fight allot. Most will point out things wrong with your form for SCA. Listen and don't talk about how awesome you are in another game. Myself and several of my guys have been fighting SCA for about 1. 1/2 years. Should be a large contingent of us at gulf wars again this year. Last year was a blast, the best pick ups are on Wednesday. I have video of us if any one is interested.

Spyn, squire to Duke Drake of Ansteora


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 Post subject: Re: SCA Fighting
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 12:59 pm 
Forum Gordon Ramsay
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Location: Portlandia
Started Fighting: 20 Apr 2006
Realm: Pyke and O.G. Babylonian
Unit: Catalyst
Favorite Fighting Styles: Acerbic wit and sassy one-liners
I'd love to see the videos Spyn; if you can send me a link or such, please do. And thanks for the advice guys. I was thinking the same thing.
I wish I wouldn't have ever mentioned I was in Belegarth when I started attending Amtgard events. It took a long time for people to realize I wasn't actively trying to hurt people, or out to 'get' certain characters. I don't know, nerds are the *, most self-entitled people on the planet.

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Bishop wrote:
Overall I believe the article was positive for our image, loosely defining us as a sadomasochist anti-larp. I'm ok with that. http://www.vice.com/en_ca/read/LARP-harder

Caleidah wrote:
But, his sensei passed that style down to him! Literal hours of tradition!


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 Post subject: Re: SCA Fighting
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 1:34 pm 
Gladiator
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Posts: 943
Location: Cumming, GA
Started Fighting: 03 Jul 2005
Realm: Kenevara
Unit: Cu Sith
Favorite Fighting Styles: Sword and Board
Glaive/Spear
Red
Unarmed
OH yeah..I would like to see the videos as well, post them up please!

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Chieftain of the Cu Sith
Proud member of House Haldane
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 Post subject: Re: SCA Fighting
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 4:48 pm 
Underling
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Location: Houston, TX
Started Fighting: 01 Oct 1994
Unit: Rogue Company
Favorite Fighting Styles: Two Sword
Here are a few from a recent tourney, i have 300 or so videos on my two you tube channels. I have MANY MANY videos on youtube, peruse these and i will try to post some from BAM this weekend.

http://www.youtube.com/user/SpynThrift# ... 5EgdSLWOnc

http://www.youtube.com/user/SpynThrift# ... NEf2ieJJ_M

This is from march when i had been playing about a year

http://www.youtube.com/user/roguecompan ... -Jtx8Ca5wE Me fighting my knight

http://www.youtube.com/user/SpynThrift# ... DQ3a_hfKzA

http://www.youtube.com/user/SpynThrift# ... WAPwTXybks

From our last kings champion i got second overall.

http://www.youtube.com/user/roguecompany

http://www.youtube.com/user/roguecompan ... y49PlUNCmQ

http://www.youtube.com/user/roguecompan ... Y2UcIDvF-s

My amtgard squire , Warlord Brett goes by Mace Longsword and is very very good with his madu in SCA

http://www.youtube.com/user/roguecompan ... PDyu0niPLg

http://www.youtube.com/user/roguecompan ... VUEQJ1AOyo

http://www.youtube.com/user/roguecompan ... Vkc5a_plfY


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 Post subject: Re: SCA Fighting
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 11:10 pm 
Forum Gordon Ramsay
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Posts: 3261
Location: Portlandia
Started Fighting: 20 Apr 2006
Realm: Pyke and O.G. Babylonian
Unit: Catalyst
Favorite Fighting Styles: Acerbic wit and sassy one-liners
Oh man, you just made my day. I've been unable to find a lot of flo-work in any SCA videos.

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Bishop wrote:
Overall I believe the article was positive for our image, loosely defining us as a sadomasochist anti-larp. I'm ok with that. http://www.vice.com/en_ca/read/LARP-harder

Caleidah wrote:
But, his sensei passed that style down to him! Literal hours of tradition!


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 Post subject: Re: SCA Fighting
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 11:14 pm 
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Remy the Wroth wrote:
Oh man, you just made my day. I've been unable to find a lot of flo-work in any SCA videos.


Boy howdy does Spyn ever do it right. SCA fighters just ain't ready for that kind of stuff.

I can't wait til my new helm gets here!


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 Post subject: Re: SCA Fighting
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 10:17 am 
Hero
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Favorite Fighting Styles: Sword and board, Red, Red +back shield,
Start here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dr0Z9LR0pqk

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 Post subject: Re: SCA Fighting
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 6:21 pm 
Forum Gordon Ramsay
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Favorite Fighting Styles: Acerbic wit and sassy one-liners
:roll: seen it

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Bishop wrote:
Overall I believe the article was positive for our image, loosely defining us as a sadomasochist anti-larp. I'm ok with that. http://www.vice.com/en_ca/read/LARP-harder

Caleidah wrote:
But, his sensei passed that style down to him! Literal hours of tradition!


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 Post subject: Re: SCA Fighting
PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 9:34 am 
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Hello all.

I am a relatively new fighter in the Eastern Kingdoms, and I wanted to say a couple things.

I came here while browsing the internet looking for two sword information, as after I authorize at Berka this year, two sword is what I want to switch to. Thank you guys for posting some information, since as was said earlier, two sword videos are hard to come by.

I noticed that Scorpio and Arrakis have come to the very same practice I attend in Bergental. First off, I want to apologize for how you were treated. I'm just a newbie, and I have no control over what happened, but I'll be damned if I can't attempt something to help. I will inform my friends of what happened and see if it can be fixed. Attitudes are not something I can change, but the lack of loaner armor is apparent. We are trying to work on it, and it has been called to our attention, but I'll see what little strings I have to pull can help.

Second, if you still go to practice, I would like to meet with you personally to apologize, as well as chat afterwards. My SCA name is Katsumoto, and you'll see me running around in ratty green armor with a bullet for a helmet. However, my SCA name hasn't caught on yet, so feel free to call me by my real name, Nicolas.

I hope to see you gentlemen soon, and I apologize for myself if I helped this mishap. Happy Fighting!!!


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 Post subject: Re: SCA Fighting
PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 10:34 am 
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Thank, Katsumoto! I'll see you at Birka, hopefully, and I will probably be fighting two-stick there, myself; it's my favorite style in Belegarth, as well.


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 Post subject: Re: SCA Fighting
PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 7:10 pm 
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Thought I would revive this thread with some reflection after attending my first SCA practice. For those of you that don't know me, I'm an ex-Numenorean with about 7 years of experience in Belegarth. My biggest fighting influence is undoubtedly Sir Kenneth, followed by some of the other Numenorean knights and Peter the Quick. I'm including that so that my notes and analysis will have a context. I tend naturally to be a Numenorean style range fighter, from a basic A frame stance. I have been working on my grinding skills recently, but it is still not my go-to method for killing (although I want it to be someday).

I'll begin with my observations. First off, the calibration for a good blow is way, WAY higher than in any boffer game. I would regularly land very clean, solid blows in my estimation and be told that I was not swinging hard enough. Some of this is due to the fact that people are really in tanked up gear and it is harder to generate power with armor on. Without good core mechanics it would be impossible to land telling blows since I think they would pretty much never take a shot thrown with just the arms. The sniping style that I naturally favor doesn't work because it's impossible to throw a shot hard enough without committing/telegraphing to the point where I could safely return to guard afterwards while maintaining distance. I also noticed that none of the fights that were happening there were at mid to long range. More on this in a second.

At the SCA practice, I observed 3 shots that the fighters there throw in high volumes:

-a flat snap to the head
-a high cross to the head/offside shoulder/back area
-a wide, loopy shieldside wrap, from hip level upwards

For those that are not aware, SCA legal target areas are defined as above the knees and wrist areas. There was not much footwork used by most of the fighters there as a result of not having to deal with low leg shots on the way in. The exchanges would begin with maybe a few snipe shots thrown without much conviction before both fighters would wade into grind range. At this point, they would just begin spamming the three shots mentioned above in one iteration or another. Rinse and repeat (for the most part).

As we know, the high cross is rightly maligned by orthodox stick wisdom as a bad shot due to its inherent vulnerability and poor biomechanics. However, the conventional counters to the high cross available in Belegarth don't work in the SCA. Pocket stabbing seems really cool until you realize they are just going to blast you in the skull as soon as you start to do it. It is also harder to land clean and with sufficient force due to the huge basket hilts on SCA swords and the calibration level required. Shield edging into body areas is not allowed, so that option is out. As a result, there seems to be nothing preventing abuse from the high cross at first glance.

The grinding style they favor does not seem to have a coherent strategy. Since everyone is so addicted to headhunting in the SCA, fights just usually devolved into situations where both fighters would have swords and shields way up above their heads, trying to sneak a good blow past each other's extended guards. Any shieldside wrap would nearly always be thrown high - a solid hip wrap at grind range seems so far to be one of the best options for killing, and a shot that I will be working on.

Other than that, I also observed a lot of shield side sword-blocking and sword-side shield blocking, which make sense considering their shot selection. Their main method of power generation is by counterrotating their elbows above their shoulders that result in really weird shot angles. This seems like a surefire way in the long run of getting tennis elbow or messing up your shoulder.

I would love to hear any input from veteran Belegarth fighters about this post. I intend this to be a resource for boffer fighters who are thinking about crossing over to armored systems of combat. I'm aware of Spyn's successful venture into the SCA, but so far I'm unaware of any sword and board purists crossing over, so that's the reason I wrote this up.


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 Post subject: Re: SCA Fighting
PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 7:25 pm 
Forum Gordon Ramsay
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Thanks so much for your input.

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Bishop wrote:
Overall I believe the article was positive for our image, loosely defining us as a sadomasochist anti-larp. I'm ok with that. http://www.vice.com/en_ca/read/LARP-harder

Caleidah wrote:
But, his sensei passed that style down to him! Literal hours of tradition!


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 Post subject: Re: SCA Fighting
PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 9:31 pm 
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there are a few of us sword and board purists that have made a sucessful cross into sca. In my area, we have a high level of stick skill, and there is definatly alot more then just the three shots you mentioned being performed. We translated well into sca fighting, but we also fought with proper mechanics before joining, so it was not too dificult to change angle and location. Butt/hip wraps are still evil and catch alot of people, as is a good quick sword side leg/hip shot.

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 Post subject: Re: SCA Fighting
PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 9:35 pm 
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Cedric, what's the calibration like where you're at? We found that throwing and landing clean thoroughly-Belegarth-sufficient shots thrown with hips and legs and everything was not enough for the guys up here in the East. We're having to go out of our way to throw hard enough shots and even then I suspect they were taking somewhat light on us vs. what they prefer to take yesterday...


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 Post subject: Re: SCA Fighting
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 6:36 am 
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I'm a board purist, and I made the switch. Turns out you just need to clean folks, every time. If it touches anything on the way in, if you don't swing through, if they step with it to reduce transfer of momentum. Any of that will be enough to get your **** called light. It can be frustrating, but it's also refreshing.

I've literally fought against some dukes/knights where I can pepper them with fifteen shots, and hear 'em all called off. It's just the nature of their game, and it's what I signed up for.

One side-effect of this that I've noticed is that being a counter-puncher is actually viable in SCA. In Bel, if you just sit and wait for a good shot, you're going to get machine-gunned down eventually. In SCA, because it's ridiculously hard to actually get that good shot in, you can be a lot more patient, knowing that nothing is just going to 'sneak' in on you.

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 Post subject: Re: SCA Fighting
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 4:09 pm 
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I find if its clean, they take it, if it touches much on the way in, they call it off. It is actually a nice break from bel style(which is much better then tap groups), where i have to count way to much slop if it touches me. It forces me to strike clean and precise, and with the high level of skill, really makes it worth it. Artemisia is a tourney fighting realm, and tends to clean house in inter kingdom tourneys, and get destroyed in larger battles. It has been rare that I have pelted someone and them not take it, a few exceptions are a duke I was fighting when we were the last two left standing and I put the stink on it, heard him grunt, and call it off, mostly because I was new and it was in front of 200 people I would assume. Other are newer fighters trying to find their calibration. I have had an excelent time with the local calibration and hit taking practices, we even get the knights and others to come to some of our bel events, which they really enjoy.

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 Post subject: Re: SCA Fighting
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:15 am 
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Fought in the tiny little 10x10 foot Bear Pits at Market Day at Birka this weekend. I struck only one blow with the edges of my blades that was counted by an opponent as sufficient (a headshot to very near the grill); I stabbed two fellows to death, as well (one stomach, one grill). I struck one fighter so hard in the forearm that he dropped his sword. I did this to him twice. He did not take anything at all from either of those OR from the hip wraps and thigh chops I was throwing him.

Alas.

It seems I will simply have to weight my sticks differently, buy much wider, nastier rattan, and go hit the weight bench to be an East Kingdom-ready fighter. Or maybe I'll just headhunt all the time like everybody else up here seems to do...


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 Post subject: Re: SCA Fighting
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:58 am 
Boo Radley
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Just hit them in the forearm so hard they can't write properly for a few days. Maybe they'll start taking hits then.

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 Post subject: Re: SCA Fighting
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 6:20 pm 
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I was at the 10x10 ft bear pit with Arrakis as well. The tiny fighting area eliminated footwork pretty much, so it was again just wading in and headhunting. The calibration there was very high...but just something to get used to, I guess.


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 Post subject: Re: SCA Fighting
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 10:05 pm 
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the hit taking I have incountered is similar to bel, you get a few douche nozzles, but the rest are ok, sucks that your area seems so thick.

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 Post subject: Re: SCA Fighting
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 9:58 am 
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It's alright; we're just gonna work and work and work.

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 Post subject: Re: SCA Fighting
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 8:37 pm 
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For those that are curious, here is a video of me and Arrakis authorizing. I am the round white shield and Arrakis is the florentine fighter (obviously).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-dPkGeEbzY

Arrakis, I hope you're not * at me for posting this. :P


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 Post subject: Re: SCA Fighting
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 10:48 am 
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Favorite Fighting Styles: No gimmicks.
Hah hah hah.

My guard is FAR too far forward; my shots from there have insufficient power and I can cut off angles as effectively from closer to my body than that. I'm leaning forward. I need to maintain neutrality of stance. I need to improve my footwork (steel legs is a bit of a difference...). I need to work on my left hand attack mechanics and my deep wrap protection with my left hand. I should attack the head more with either hand for the disorientation, blinding, and range maintenance benefits, not to mention the obvious possibility of winning with such a strike.

I need to throw haymakers with my right hand to open their guard.


I'm sure I'll see more as I rewatch. Anyone else? Be brutal.

I corrected several of these flaws (in part, at least) during last Saturday's fighting at Birka.


For reference, this is my second time fighting in armor in two years and my third time ever; also, Scorpio's first time ever.


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 Post subject: Re: SCA Fighting
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 10:22 pm 
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It's difficult to break 7 years of shield position, but I need to raise my guard and tilt it outwards to protect against the shieldside head snap. It seems pretty much impossible to land a body stab with sufficient force, so an open shield guard will probably not be punished. I'll keep posting more videos as they become available.


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 Post subject: Re: SCA Fighting
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 8:40 am 
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scorpio wrote:
It's difficult to break 7 years of shield position, but I need to raise my guard and tilt it outwards to protect against the shieldside head snap. It seems pretty much impossible to land a body stab with sufficient force, so an open shield guard will probably not be punished. I'll keep posting more videos as they become available.


*got his first kill in his auth fights with a gut stab and one of his three kills at Birka with same*

But I'm cheating; I have two swords.


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 Post subject: Re: SCA Fighting
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 6:15 pm 
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Started Fighting: 18 Jun 2007
Realm: Numenor
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Favorite Fighting Styles: Sword and Board, Single Blue
Scorpio, your weight's too far forward.

Arrakis, try leading with your right foot. It'll change the way he ranges you and help with power generation. Also, left sword stabs the face. Stutter right, move left, stab. Hack at the dome with your right, stepping with your right if you need to.

Both of you: face stab-->moulinet-->hammer to the dome. Fake on-side wrap, rotate your hand so the sword is pointing away from your body, covering your face and the cross, and rotate it back and snap into the dude's face.

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 Post subject: Re: SCA Fighting
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 6:38 pm 
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Favorite Fighting Styles: Numenorean arrogance
I'm still getting used to moving with my armor on, which probably explains why my weight is so far forward. Usually I'm pretty good about keeping my weight back to dodge leg shots.

I have a feeling that it will be difficult at first to generate enough power off a moulinet for a telling blow in the SCA for me. I'll let you know how it goes. But I assume conceptually you're just suggesting to take the pocket stab/moulinet/flap wrap and move the target to the head?


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