Belegarth

Just a brief warm-up single blue, nothing fancy but some useful feed back is always welcome.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7OlyqAPews

Me and Wrothgar, I was choking up to match sword lengths and trying to play a more up top game. I gave up up the choking thing about half way through via fear of more tangles.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nIrUlKqhR8

The sword I am using is a 12 oz duratube bat of personal construction. I actually prefer something heavier but I am waiting to break it down to rebuild.

Any sort of feedback is appreciated, I've watched these videos pretty extensively and have exhausted my interpretive research. It's always nice to hear another's perspective and garner new info.

Single blue is the life.

Three years ago I broke the first shield I'd ever made, a strap shield with a plastic storage bin core (The guy who taught me was a bit of an idiot). So I was stuck with a single-edge blue sword for several months while I built up enough money to build a new, better shield.

Just judging by the look of the warm-up, I'd say that you have the footwork down, especially as you school the other guy with just that. Just don't forget about your other arm. Unsurprising, as a lot of people focus on their weapon-hand, which isn't bad. But you can throw off a lot of people's attacks and timing by doing one of three things:

1. Use your un-armed hand to block an attack. Completely legal, and blows minds. They go for a right horizontal attack, which many are inclined to do, you let it go through to your arm. While this happens, you get them with a straight body, hip, or even a sword-arm shot. Even if you don't kill them, yes, you've lost an arm, but they've lost their primary arm, giving you an advantage.

2. This is my usual one: Grab your sword's flat with your left arm and block with it. A lot of people see this as anvil-ing though (you may be one, idk), but hand-on-weapon should apply here. Then, once you've blocked, grab their handle which you should be able to do since your off-arm is already really close anyway, and twist. Throw a wrap shot AROUND YOURSELF (mind-blowing), and finish them off.

3. This is my favorite as it makes me laugh when it works: Act like you're throwing something at them with your off-hand. They will flinch even if they KNOW you don't have anything. This works on anyone not prepared for it or practiced in it. Seriously, they will probably throw a shot at your arm on reaction, in which you can hit THEIR arm in the confusion. You could also rush them, pin their weapon, and finish them off. Personally, I rofl when this happens.


Second video made me lol, as you both would tuck in your off-hand, which looked uncomfortable and awkward. Not sure if that's a "pro" thing, like to protect your torso from at least one shot, but it looks hysterical.

BTW, you and Wrothgar have mad skills. Do you have more clips? WTB moar clips.

Here is a video of us Dorking around in Armor. I'm using a 15oz edhellen bat that belongs to remy. These videos all are on Remy's personal channel.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQ8qMD4yGPM

In answer to the weird tucked arm question. It is an effort to hand block but more with an entire arm. When you are fighting in a close range firefight you want to cover as much as possible without hampering movement too much. It looks dorky but it has saved my life more times than I can count. It does look really awkward now that I look at it, but I don't realize it when I am fighting. I'll try and pay more attention to it next time and see what it does to my posture.

I appreciate the complements and the suggestions. Hope you enjoy the new vid.

lol poor remy, for all the crap he talks, he doesn't seem like a very effective fighter.

I would like to point out for everyone the intense ass-beating at 3 minutes in.

Another thing: Punch shields make me lol. Their effectiveness has been proven in historic and contemporary concepts, but watching people fight with them makes me laugh none the less, as it always comes down to this:

Guy 1 and Guy 2 are fighting. Guy 1 loses a limb. Guy 2's IMMEDIATE REACTION:

SHIELD IN YO FACE! I GET YOU! SHIELD IN YO FACE!
All tactics and skill are now out the window, as you now have a SHIELD IN YO FACE!

And yes, strap-shield users do it too(as you see in the part I mentioned above), but it's not as vicious. A strap shield is usually just pushed or placed in front of your face. A punch shield is always IN your face.

And, random question: Why are you guys fighting in the building when there is clear grass all around? Is it raining or what?

And of course you think that Sleeper. You live and die by the big red sword.


Remy is handicapped by the concrete. You can tell how much he wants to shield bash and can't. STILL, Delfino is quite skilled.

Sleeper wrote:lol poor remy, for all the crap he talks, he doesn't seem like a very effective fighter.

Maybe you should fight him sometime, instead of being passive aggressive.

Every time Remy does that "hide the sword under the shield"-thing I want to tackle him.

I am now going to watch all of the rest of his videos as I have no life, no one to fight with, and all of my gear is unfinished.

It was raining and muddy and cold. Also Remy is a solid robo cop companion. I would have him at my back body bagging people any day.

In answer to the weird tucked arm question. It is an effort to hand block but more with an entire arm. When you are fighting in a close range firefight you want to cover as much as possible without hampering movement too much.

Against an opponent who knows how to throw a crossing flat wrap or crossing hip scoop, an accurate pocket stab, a short cross, or a three-point check into a bind, that guard is going to get you well murdered. Also, being clutched so far back is slowing your returns down significantly and causing you to telegraph most of your offense.

Hrothgar's switch to sword-under-shield should never work ever, but your guard's too high, and you cross too much, so it does.

Not much side to side movement when you guys are actually engaged. You circle each other, but you stop once shots are thrown. Lateral movement is a huge part of good fighting.

Sorry if any of my posts read like I was making fun or condemning Remy. He just looks like he's much more restricted than you are. He likes to play aggressive, shield-to-yo-face style doesn't he? You can't really do that on concrete or someone will be taking a trip to the E.R. You, Delfino, on the other hand, either have switched styles like a pro, or play a more conservative game. Either way, your handicaps are far lower than his, so Remy is at a serious disadvantage.

I think the under-the-shield move is for surprise, but he uses it too much. Even IF he wasn't fighting someone who has fought him before, if it didn't work the first five times, I doubt it would after. Plus, the shield's not big enough to play "hide the weapon". A guy I used to play with in Indiana used a tower shield and a min-red glaive. He would do that constantly, positioning it behind his shield, then suddenly stab out randomly. **** could catch you off balance the first couple of times, but then nothing.

However, in a full fledge fight on open grass, I personally wouldn't want to face you two. Then again, I seem to fight OPPOSITE of most of the Belegarth videos I've seen. So I may just be backwards.

I do find it humorous that the guy with the strap shield is playing conservative and the punch shield is playing aggressive. Does that feel just wrong to anyone else or am I just lame?

Dangus wrote:

Sleeper wrote:lol poor remy, for all the crap he talks, he doesn't seem like a very effective fighter.

Maybe you should fight him sometime, instead of being passive aggressive.

Nah, we like to talk **** to eachother, its a bel/dag thing.

(I already challenged him to a duel but he didn't seem so enthusiastic)

Son of Kyles Mom wrote:1. Use your un-armed hand to block an attack. Completely legal, and blows minds. They go for a right horizontal attack, which many are inclined to do, you let it go through to your arm. While this happens, you get them with a straight body, hip, or even a sword-arm shot. Even if you don't kill them, yes, you've lost an arm, but they've lost their primary arm, giving you an advantage.

Mind blown. (I am a newb, yes.)

I feel like I've seen videos where red users will grab the opponent's sword for a moment before taking the hit. Is that an okay move?

Son of Kyles Mom wrote:Every time Remy does that "hide the sword under the shield"-thing I want to tackle him.

I am now going to watch all of the rest of his videos as I have no life, no one to fight with, and all of my gear is unfinished.

I'm not the guy in chain fighting punch shield. I think the only video of me fighting S&B is me fighting lefty. I'm the guy in black and red tabard in the first SS warmup...

Dude, go to Bdar's channel and watch me pick up S&B for the first time in years and watch me throw ONE MILLION lopdick darksides. Delfino has helped me get over that and now I'm working on my lackluster footwork.

I am fighting guys who are way better than me so I'm posting all these videos to help all of us get better. The best advice I ever got was via Sir Bo telling me I have abysmal footwork. I work really well with people critiquing me and am a big boy so I can take actual advice be it constructive or negative unlike some people who resort to asinine attempts at defending the style they developed over years of insular, isolated fighting in the middle of * nowhere.

Capito wrote:

Son of Kyles Mom wrote:1. Use your un-armed hand to block an attack. Completely legal, and blows minds. They go for a right horizontal attack, which many are inclined to do, you let it go through to your arm. While this happens, you get them with a straight body, hip, or even a sword-arm shot. Even if you don't kill them, yes, you've lost an arm, but they've lost their primary arm, giving you an advantage.

Mind blown. (I am a newb, yes.)

I feel like I've seen videos where red users will grab the opponent's sword for a moment before taking the hit. Is that an okay move?

According to the Book of War, you cannot grab your opponent's striking surface:

3.7.5. Gripping the striking surface of an opponents Weapon results in the disabling of that limb.

However, it only specifies the striking surface, not the flats or haft of a weapon. Myself, personally, I would never try to grab the flat of an opponent's sword because of the damage it might cause and because of the likelihood of accidentally grabbing the edge. However, I have no compunctions about grabbing the haft of a flail or axe.

I try to introduce the concept of the "live" hand when fighting with a single weapon. It's a concept in the Filipino Martial Arts. Your open hand can be used to do a variety of different things such as grabbing, pushing, or redirecting an opponent's hand. Here's a video that illustrates the concept:



Keep in mind that while they're doing this demonstration, they are staying within striking distance from each other. When you factor in range, you have to be much more precise in your movements and in being able to effectively close the distance quickly and defensively.

1. Use your un-armed hand to block an attack.

Do not go into your fight with the intent to use your open hand to block an attack. This is a desperation maneuver, used when you're throwing at an opponent, and instead of trying to block and playing to win, your opponent just throws in response, playing to not lose. That's when your hand should release and eat the shot. Otherwise, your weapon does the blocking.

3. This is my favorite as it makes me laugh when it works: Act like you're throwing something at them with your off-hand.

Gamesmanship is stupid, and good fighters will kill you for it.

Gamesmanship is stupid, and good fighters will kill you for it.

That is true, but it's not gamesmanship. It's a feint. Nor does it even remotely bend rules in any way. This is much safer than the throwing a fake shot at the head WITH YOUR WEAPON, which has been deemed legal. A lame move, but legal. Also, it's a gambit move, to only be used once, also probably with some desperation. Personally, I use the second tactic that I listed the most, going in for a quick grapple.

The hand to block an attack IS a desperate move, but when you're in a field battle with only a SB, you're kinda desperate already. I WOULD change my original statement to using the rest of your arm to block, like your forearm or upper arm, rather than your hand as you risk injury.

Also, to Remy: SO sorry. Just now read the video description that said it was Hrothgar, not Remy. My bad. So many people with similar naming. Wrothgar, Hrothgar. Yeah, I'm sorry.

And yeah, my style is a bit insular, I'll admit, but I am just trying to add a different perspective like Delfino asked for. And, to be honest, I like playing in my haphazard awkward insular style as it's fun. A barrel mace with a massive shield is more fun to me than a sword and a punch shield. Yes, your style may (and probably is) better, but it's not fun to me.

I wasn't talking about you.

Oh...

you quoted me though.

Yup.
*mock-whisper* I was talking about Sleeper.

I appreciate the inputs dane and will agree that funny dark side punks me too often. Lateral moving is definitely lacking but not for lack of effort. I find that our stride lengths are pretty evenly matched making it difficult to get to any one side. I won't get into the single sword basics with you as it is an expansive and ever changing beast but I appreciate your input and will definitely apply your theory in future tests. Thanks for taking the time to critique my vids and I hope when can test our meddle in the future.

well i glanced at the the two vids you posted. And i've got some feed back for you delfine, don't take any of it too harshly. from what i've read you seem like a level headed guy and you want it straight so here it is.

Nobody blocks (Wrothgar blocks in the beginning of his vid), you are all to focused on swinging, you swing and if that doesn't work you swing some more. there is no planning, there is no thought other then i think i might be able to hit him if i swing here, wither you feint one way and go the otherway.

Take a long hard look at how you start an engagement, come up with a plan. expect them to block/live through your first attack, let them return to where you want them to return, and set them up for what you want. watch the other guy, does he move his guard, does he watch your guard, how does he step when you step toward him, how do you step when he advances on you.

You guys are all arm too, there are very few swings where anyone is using proper mechanics. and as a result you end up moving your hands around way too much. there are several times where you bring your hand over your head in order to chop, you don't need to. use your legs back and shoulders not your arm to throw the shot. and take a look at how you step when you swing. Look at 2:15 in "clip 0017" watch how you step. and watch how much your hand moves before you swing that outside flat wrap. I know you stutter inside before you go out, and that's great, but you should do that while you are still outside of range, and you should work more of that stutter with your shoulders and less hand movement. now back to your step, you step way to far, you close almost double the distance you need to through that shot. also your forward foot is still on the upward side of the step when you start your shot. try starting your shot as your foot is coming closer to finishing the step, it will help. Also look how straight your back and shoulders stay in relation to one another. relax let them play too, its not all up to your arm. Also watch how far your hand draws back after you swing. keep your guard out in front of you, Wrothgar's next shot is his best option for a return he's got (a return to your arm) and even though you kill him with your hip wrap you should be expecting him to through that shot (because that's what you've given him to swing at) so rather then bringing your guard back behind you and trying to step away as you do, step away but bring your guard across your body and block his high percentage return don't take your guard out of the fight.


I can keep going but i need to get some sleep,

If you want some more feed back hit me up on facebook, remy's got me on his friend's list, and i'll be quicker to see/respond to your vids.

If it helps here is a vid of me and dane sparing from over a year ago, I know we make plenty of mistakes but watch how our guards stay out in from of us and how we close off our lanes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SVfIFGV ... age#t=150s

We start fighting there at about 2:30.

Maybe I can convince them to do block strike at the beginning now lol

Remy the Wroth wrote:Maybe I can convince them to do block strike at the beginning now lol

Nope :p.

I appreciate the input peter and would agree with most points. I was actually complaining about my body mechanics at an event in Seattle last Sunday. I think the min weight duratube stick (while fun and fast) is also bringing out old and bad amtgard habits. I would disagree on the blocking in the second video however, I thought my block strike was there, if not a little mistimed and misplaced. The first video I was just clearly abusing foot work to work around Remy's guard and I should probably have been more concerned with the aforementioned problem. I am definitely going to continue work on my top game in either case until I feel a more natural flow with my feet. I am currently swapping my stick for something heavier and have been doing more SCA style tray of soup circles to warm up.

I appreciate the honest opinion you laid down and I loved the video. I will look you up on facebook.

sunshinedelfino wrote:

Remy the Wroth wrote:Maybe I can convince them to do block strike at the beginning now lol

Nope :p.

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU-

Remdawg Killionaire wrote:

sunshinedelfino wrote:

Remy the Wroth wrote:Maybe I can convince them to do block strike at the beginning now lol

Nope :p.

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU-

Lulz we should do some drills at next practice. I'm sure it would be nice to give my body a break. Also I got a bead on some local 3/8 2# Eva checking out a1 foam rubber. He's calling me later in the week with the price per foot. He can get your shield blanks.

I agree that when you let your bearded friend lead you block and return fairly well, (i also, think your returns aren't always the best choices,but I don't really like to get into shot selection on the boards). But i guess what i'm seeing when i say no body was blocking is that when you are attacking you are attacking, when you are waiting for them to attack you are blocking and no attacking. you don't really slide back and forth from offense to defense during the fight.

Also your body mechanic, at times, is actually pretty good. Like your outside flat wrap is better then most. So i wouldn't be too hard on yourself but there are parts of your shot mechanic (in the vids i saw) that can use some work.

and its hard to be critical about body mechanics from friends sparing cause people tend to horse around and do things that don't condone proper swing mechanics, if that makes sense.

Also focus returning to guard after you through a shot, more consistently. that will really help fighting people like wrothgar who like to chase you down.

And about your 12 ounce sticks, i was going to suggest doing pell work or some block strike with some heavier sticks, or make some fat bats and do your drills and pell work with them. Should help keep those bad habits in place. But i think you should continue to spar with 12 ounce or lighter to maintain your fast pace reading skills and help keep your rhythm steady.

I would definitely agree with you on my returns. Interesting observation about the flow of offense and defense however. I have never noticed that before. I will hit the lab and see what I can cook up. Gives me something to think about at work :p.

So yeah, Sleeper's just butthurt because everyone likes me and he's the laughingstock of Dag/Bel/Amtgard.

But seriously
here's some recent footage. There's a ton more on my channel but whatever.
Six months in and you can really tell that I've taken a lot to heart but obviously need to work on some things.
I need to practice more blockstrike. I'm just y'know, blech with my weapon blocks. A lot sneaks in or gets REAL close. I'm too much of a chameleon and when I'm fighting people I don't much fight and try to match their pace rather then setting the pace myself. I really need to focus on learning how to get comfortable with fight lefty-vs-deep-wrappin'-rightys. Still have issues with that. In the video with Delfino I'm not moving around a whole lot but I'm trying to lunge in and keep my back straight rather then over-extend, bending at the waist which I do way too often and is dumb. I'll step back or off-line but it's not really that big of an issue for me right now as I'm working on subtlety and efficiency of motion. So yeah.
I'm getting there... Super close. Working with Delfino is seeing me reap leaps and bounds development-wise.

Here's some newer stuff, king of the hill. I hold my spot for a solid-10-11 times but I get greedy and throw my shield shield out only to have Sare side-step like a pro and he gets me good. Oh well.
Most of the video is me chasing delfino around.
We've both been rocking the min punch and short-sword/bat combo for a while now. Coupled with a jav we're able to pretty much control the field together. Interesting technique and ideas are going to be put to the test at our underground secret Winter Training Facility. Should be fun.
Anyway

Wicked

OH MAN IT IS HILARIOUS TO SEE ME STRUGGLE WITH DELFINO WHEREAS NOW I JUST MURK THE CHUMP ALL DAY EVERY DAY MAYBE HE SHOULDN'T HAVE SHAVED HIS BEARD THE PANTY-WAISTED NANCY BOY.
But seriously, we've ALL gotten way better since the first video, this past Feb lolol

Prove it.

Well, if you watch the videos from Feb to just this summer, there's a ton of improvement.
I started placing in tourneys. sure, 2nd and 3rd place, but better then always getting knocked out second round.
Here's from January