Is it just me?

[Xooyan]

Or does this disturb you?

http://www.belegarth.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=13511

Has anyone else noticed that it's more than just a little bit prickly for Westerners at Arm? Personally, I'm starting to have a problem with it. This was my first Arm, so I'm curious if this is the way it's been from the beginning? If so I think it's something for the officers of BMCS to discuss to try some prevention tactics.

[Spriggot]

If we created bel legal rocket launchers they'd take us seriously.

[Tor]

Frankly, I'm baffled. We have representation in the War Council, some of the most vocal and well-known personalities, and great fighting camaraderie among our own here, yet for some reason we're still the red-headed * stepchildren of the sport. Who knew?

[Eoric of the Riddermark]

Can I be honest here, Xooyan?

I can't speak for the past four years or so, but when I was very active in the Utah realm I considered going to Rag (back in the days of just Dagorhir) on more than one occasion. But the truth is that nobody on the far side of the divide seemed to really care about the west, or even consider "us" to be part of their group. And this gut feeling I had was strengthened the first few times a handful of easterners came to Chaos Wars. I definitely got the vibe that westerners were second-class citizens, though I can happily and truthfully say that neither you nor Orion ever acted that way (toward me, at least).

And for me, this feeling goes back to the start of my Dagorhir years, when arguments used to occur on the old, old message boards (in RavenRose's day) about the requirement for all realms to attend eastern events to be recognized as realms.

So there you have it. I'll stop whining now and go do something productive.

[Xooyan]

?oric,
By all means, be as honest as you can. This is something I've been trying to get across to Eastern/Midwestern Leadership for over 4 years now. Some people actually seem to think I'm being rude or ridiculous to bring it up, but I actually think the problem is getting worse in the last few years rather than better. I'm really curious to hear about other western experiences as I try to figure out how to deal with this.

So here's some of what I have had happen and some things I'm going to suggest to try and help with it.

1. At Arm, when I showed up to sign in at Troll, I introduced myself to everyone in the tent and said where I was coming from. No one responded, not even the woman checking me in said more than "oh, okay." I then pushed by asking "So, who are you guys?" Some people looked at me oddly and said "We're from Dunharrow." No one offered their names, so I said "Have you all got names?" No one took the hint, though one person did say, "uhm...yeah." So finally I said "Can I know your names?" Finally everyone introduced themselves, though no one offered to shake my hand. I even offered my hand a couple of times and it was never noticed. I left Troll feeling like I got the cold shoulder and that was my first experience at the event.

My suggestion to the Iowa realms will be to make sure all of their Troll people understand that Troll is the place to make sure people feel welcome. Everyone should be greeted and the person checking them in should introduce themselves, take note of the person's name and ask some kind of icebreaker question such as "how far did you have to travel to get here?", "How is your realm doing?", "Is there anything we can answer for you about the site or the area?", "Did you have any trouble finding the site?" Anything that shows the slightest interest in the newcomer is good. No matter where the person came from Troll should show appreciation for their effort to attend by simply saying "Thanks for coming out and showing your support for the event. It's good to have you here!"

2. The other thing that kind of surprised me recently was during Andor's voting rights discussion. Someone asked when we felt the we would be ready to hold an event. It occurred to me at the time that there's no point in Andor holding an event in the near future. The only realm remotely capable of joining us is Orange County and we fight with them anyway. Why would Andor hold an event in San Diego when we have one realm in driving distance and the next closest realm is 9 hours away. The closest realm after that is 11 to 12 hours away. I think this shows a lack of understanding about the development of the West. New realms in the east often have at least 2 other realms within an hour or 4 of them. The support that can offer is huge. Realms in the west are usually on their own to get started from scratch with little or no help from an outside realm.

I'd like to suggest that the network of support be increased in some manner. I'm not sure how to do this yet. Edhellen sometimes offers someone to come and demo for your new realm if you can offer that person a place to stay and food while they are there, but I think that often is uncomfortable for some new realms who might feel like that has a price tag attached of an implied weapons purchase. Maybe Belegarth could take a hint from Dur Demarion and their new event policy of waiving the event fee if you travel more than 10 hours to get there. Or maybe just a discount would be enough to show that we appreciate how much it takes to make the trip. What do you all think?

[Sir Par]

Xooyan,

I completely agree. With the exectption of a few, I even felt most of the easterners who were at Chaos Wars were unaprachable. Some, though surpising, were good to talk to, such as Angmarth, and even V'hil was pleasent! (shocking from an Urkai I know). Even though I have never been to an eastern event, It seems to me that it wouldn't be all that much fun because of what I have heard other poeple say. That and most say that Arm doesn't come close to stacking up against Chaos Wars. I just see no reason to go.

[Sir Par]

Xooyan,

I completely agree. With the exectption of a few, I even felt most of the easterners who were at Chaos Wars were unaprachable. Some, though surpising, were good to talk to, such as Angmarth, and even V'hil was pleasent! (shocking from an Urkai I know). Even though I have never been to an eastern event, It seems to me that it wouldn't be all that much fun because of what I have heard other poeple say. That and most say that Arm doesn't come close to stacking up against Chaos Wars. I just see no reason to go.

[Sir Par]

* double post!

[Shratisfaction]

Xooyan,

I completely agree. With the exectption of a few, I even felt most of the easterners who were at Chaos Wars were unaprachable. Some, though surpising, were good to talk to, such as Angmarth, and even V'hil was pleasent! (shocking from an Urkai I know). Even though I have never been to an eastern event, It seems to me that it wouldn't be all that much fun because of what I have heard other poeple say. That and most say that Arm doesn't come close to stacking up against Chaos Wars. I just see no reason to go.

I disagree.
most of the eastys there are all very socalable people exspaeclly the ones from Iowa.
Also there is Horde in the west it bother me there was no Horde on this period.

[Xooyan]

I think many of the fighters that came from the east this year were pretty good about trying to meet people at Chaos Wars. I know Angmarth, V'hil, Jikanta, Argoth, and Winfang seemed to make themselves pretty accessible. I often think that some people are overwhelmed by fighters that intimidate them and don't introduce themselves to get things rolling.

Let's try to keep in mind that although I'm complaining a bit here, I'd like to see some constructive thoughts regarding how to improve the situation. I think I've been to plenty of east events that are great, but I've noticed a disturbing trend to devalue Western fighters and I'd like to figure out how to avoid that.

Don't get me wrong in my goals here Par. My goal is to get more Western fighters to Arm and more Eastern fighters to CW. I think we should take the best of both events and try to instill them at all our events. The best result would be to have just as much fun at Arm as at Chaos Wars and vice versa. And btw... I would still encourage everyone to go to Arm who can because I think the event is made better by a broader diversity of attending realms. It's still the best opportunity for realm members from across the country to meet each other and I feel that our connections are what most encourages the growth of the sport/game.

[Xooyan]

I disagree.
most of the eastys there are all very socalable people exspaeclly the ones from Iowa.
Also there is Horde in the west it bother me there was no Horde on this period.

Btw.. I also agree with Shrat. The people I've met from Iowa have been some of the best newcomers to Belegarth in the last 5 years. I think that will help them in a big way as hosts of Arm this year. It also makes them rather receptive to suggestions on how to improve the experience of the event, which is why I'm bringing this up now. I think we should take advantage of a hosting group that wants to do better and help them by telling them why we have had trouble in the past and suggesting better options.

So yeah, I wanna hear your *', but I want your suggestions for improvement too.

[Ralimar]

I went to my first eastern event 7 or 8 years ago, and I don't think the lack of caring about the west has changed very much. And because I haven't been able to make it to an eastern event for a couple years, I feel very estranged from many of my friends because I haven't been around them every 6 months or so. I think East people are just lazy with who they know.

[BROPHEX]

Par Ohmsford-
The people who come to CW from the east are some of the nicer people in the sport. You wont truly understand till you go to an eastern event. CW is a cuddle fest compared to Armageddon.


I strongly agree with the way westerners are treated at eastern events. It's ****. When Babylon first went out there (34 our drive one way) we took five people in one car. It was hell, the drive, the food, Bishop's smell. It also cost us lots of money and about 2 weeks of our time. With a few exceptions, we were not treated very warmly at all. We swore we'd never go back to Armageddon. Surprisingly two years later we did it again.

The second time around things were a little bit better, but only because it was our SECOND time there, and we doubled our attendance, bringing 10 people from Babylon.

I don't think the easterners realize how lucky they have it, and how easy it all is for them.

There was one time at ARM II when everyone kind of realized how far we came for the event. It was during the gladiator pits, and Kegg yells out "Who drove the farthest to get here!?!" and i heard "4 hours!"..."7 Hours" and even someone who said "10 hours"....Then i yelled "34 **** hours!" and everyone kind of took a step back and Kegg said "I think you guys win"

[savetuba]

and not many people realize that arizona made a 2 person showing at arm this year.

And we got the same kind of cold shoulder thing.

I know I won't be going back and the guy who came with me lot all interest in belegarth because of how we were treated, so he won't be coming back at all.

There was that one camp and they were quite nice (I wish I could remember who they were). And for that I am thankfull. (I miss you guys and gals!!!)

[Sir Par]

I didn't mean to say something bad about ALL the easterners who were at CW. I had quite a long talk with V'hil about how to improve team tactics. There were a few of them though that seemed like they just didn't want to be bothered. I mean, Angmarth, V'hil, Gorlock, Dagmar and a few others were cool. Its just a few who were... aloof i guess is the best word I can think of.

[Cedric]

I think it is safe to say that I am the most vetran member of the west in terms of eventing in the east. I have been to rag 10-16, and arms 1-4, as well as the last two Equinox. I have been in the sport for 12 years and been out east every year of my tenure. The last few years the westerners have been treated worse and worse. This last year was horrible. I don't get the treatment that most of you recieved, for one I am EBF and the unit is well known and hated by most, but well known. Secondly I have been to enough events out east, that they don't treat me any different then their own. What I saw from the easterners was horrible, and I felt like I was constantly sticking up for my western brothers. I lost friends at this years arm that I have known for 10+ years. They were tired of me * at them to at least be cordial with them, and basicly I had to choose sides, them or my REAL friends in the west. On the field was horrible, they tried to bash pinky from behind, front, and jsut gang bang him, they wouldn't take his shots, because he told them he wasn't afraid and would fight any of them. After they tried to bash him, one of them overheard him state that the underage kids fight harder in the west, and that person then told his unit commander he wasnt going to take **** from that punk, I overheard the entire conversation.

At chaos wars, I have heard alot of complaints about a coupe of the easterners and their attitudes, and its just wrong. The moral of the story is, things have gotten worse, and they need to change or the west will be its own and leave the east to destuct themselves.

I have been a proponent of online voteing, but when a realm comes up for voting from the east, its all yes..and when a realm from the west comes up, they want 500 questions answered, and they just dont want to recognize what is going on. Things need to change, I am just glad that someone else is understanding of what is going on, and that I am not alone in * and feeling like I have lost my mind

sorry if not understandable, I am tired.

[Sir Par]

Thanks for chiming in Ced, I love you man!

[BROPHEX]

Tuba- I didn't even know there were guys from AZ at Arm... Where were you guys?

[Od1n]

I think it is safe to say that I am the most vetran member of the west in terms of eventing in the east. I have been to rag 10-16, and arms 1-4, as well as the last two Equinox. I have been in the sport for 12 years and been out east every year of my tenure. The last few years the westerners have been treated worse and worse. This last year was horrible. I don't get the treatment that most of you recieved, for one I am EBF and the unit is well known and hated by most, but well known. Secondly I have been to enough events out east, that they don't treat me any different then their own. What I saw from the easterners was horrible, and I felt like I was constantly sticking up for my western brothers. I lost friends at this years arm that I have known for 10+ years. They were tired of me * at them to at least be cordial with them, and basicly I had to choose sides, them or my REAL friends in the west. On the field was horrible, they tried to bash pinky from behind, front, and jsut gang bang him, they wouldn't take his shots, because he told them he wasn't afraid and would fight any of them. After they tried to bash him, one of them overheard him state that the underage kids fight harder in the west, and that person then told his unit commander he wasnt going to take **** from that punk, I overheard the entire conversation.

Holy **** that is **** up, I was there and I didn't even know that happened that bad. Ced, I'd really like to say thanks for sticking up for us when you could of just copped out and been like "yeah I **** hate those kids too" and been cool, but didn't, you know where you are from and care and that is **** awesome. Also the underage thing is priceless because it's true.

As for the east, I'd be willing to say I **** hate the east. I don't even know why I went to arm this year, it was a **** joke like it was at arm 2, but I have to say it made me get closer with everyone from the west. What's sad is that I made more friends from the east at CHAOS WARS than I did at ARMAGEDDON, a **** eastern event.

Just remember kids, westside for life.

[Itan]

my experiance in the east was pretty much the same as everyone else who has said something here.

i met some people i liked and more that i didnt. i dont want to bash on the east or anything but what i will say is that on a one on eone basis the people i talked to were pretty cool however put that same person in a group and he/she changed completely.

i didnt like how we were being treated i more so heard about things because i had a tendency to stick around the people i liked which was pretty much anyone from the west.

Cedric im sorry you lost some friends but im even more greatful that you stuck up for the ones that are closer and you care more about, i find that to be a very noble and not so easy thing to do. For that i Thank you.

i know it may be hard but i think we need to be the better people and not just bicker about what happened and try to figure out ways to fix these problems if at all possible.

[Xooyan]

i know it may be hard but i think we need to be the better people and not just bicker about what happened and try to figure out ways to fix these problems if at all possible.

Bravo Itan. It IS hard to keep from letting this overwhelm us, but I truly believe that Belegarth will only make itself strong by bridging it's gaps and learning to appreciate our diversity. I think the Western realms do a great deal to set themselves up as examples of what it means to be welcoming. Now it's time to teach some of the eastern realms what it means to be great. It's not just how well you fight or how many numbers you put on the field or how big your units are. It's about heart, honor, friends, and the willingness to back up what you've got to say.

So let's here some suggestions about how we're going to use some of the principles we employ at CW to make Arm a better event to go to.

[Sir Julian Lunnan]

I Agree with Xooyan and Cedric, On this.

However, My Exp At Equanox was not all that bad. It was the same way for me when I first started going to Chaos wars. People didn't know me and I stayed mostly with my group. At Equanox, Peten told me that some of the people there where going to start some **** with me. But, Peten told my and my wife to just keep walking Peten said " Just keep walking, You don't need to talk to them". Althought Im thank full that he cared, I don't think it was needed. I was not Impressed with the easterners. I think that we here in the west have just as much skill if not better than they do.

Ered Duath has the same problem going to Chaos wars. The same thing can be said of, The kid that go to Chaos wars. They get treted like ****, Because they don't show up year after year.
With the Exception of Elwrath, Spinx and Strat, You will not see these kid, Unless you go to Chaos or Yestary.

I think that when western fighters go east, That we should all get a camp together. And just I fight as a western Coallition.

{Sorry, Its a little passed my bed time to be doing this}

[savetuba]

Tuba- I didn't even know there were guys from AZ at Arm... Where were you guys?

yeah we were there next to the road by the 4 crapers. Hard to have missed us because you had to walk through our camp or past it to get to the main feild. (orange tent and red mini car).

I found it interesting that people didn't bother to hail our camp but if we even got close to someone else's camp without hailing they drove us off/attacked us. We didn't learn hailing camps untill our 2nd day there.

[Cedric]

fist off, if I lost a few friends, then they needed to be lost, no biggie. You treat my friends the way you treat me or **** off. Julian is right, EQ is like CW for the most part, very friendly and inviting. I will say it is arm that is the problem. I saw tuba there, said hi to him by weapons check, talked for a minute, and really didnt see him except on the field after that, unfortunatly, cause I enjoyed hanging with him a few yestare ago.

Julian, all the western realms did camp together at rm, and it was the funnest part of the event, comming back to camp and chatting til the sun came up every night. Many of us found out how cool the other western realms really were from that experience.

Now I know it may sound like bickering and *, but i think if we share our experiences about what has happened to us in the east, we will have a better understanding of what to expect when we do go out there, and also be prepared to be the better people, and not let it affect us. We choose our friends, if you don't like someone, don't bother with them. The west is our home, we will see each other 4+ times a year, some more so these are the people that matter anyways. Its not all easterners, just some that are asses, that is apoint that needs to be remembered. The bad ones ruin the group, but they are not all bad.

About the erad duath kids feeling treated like **** at CW, I truly apologize, and hope it was not any of our vetrans that made the mistake of being the bad apples. I thought this CW was great, i met and hung out with alot of utah people, and at samhain, found them to be friends. If this is a problem, we need to correct this by standing up for people when the fun ribbing becomes hurtful.

again, many of the easterners are cool cats, you just have to get to know them, others are not, and they are not needed to know.

[Ryker]

Is this just a Belegarth thing? I went to my first Ragnarok this year and was treated well (granted I was with another Western Canadian who'd gone twice before). Hell, people were friendly and impresssed that I had come from the other side of the world. Nobody was going out of their way to start conversations...but I didn't get any cold shoulders when I initiated any.

[Sir Julian Lunnan]

Cedric, No not this Chaos war. In years passed they felt a little out of place. If you remamber, They go it pritty hard from the VISITING easterners. I personaly don't, Give a rats * what the eastern realms think of me or my realm. I don't see why the realm leaders down here think that it is. All we have to go on is what the easterners think of Ered Duath, Is what Elwrath Says. Im inclined to think that Elwrath is Easly Impressed.

On another note, Ered Duath Is going into a major overhall. We are intent to bring more people to events. The problem Is that this is a college town, and as you know college town Suck. There are not that meny good jobs here. and when people get there degree. Its very short untell they pack it up and head out of town. A good peont to that is they try to start realms where they end up. {Sir William} Then there is that mormon thing. {missions} So, on one hand Ered Duath contributes on the other we don't. Not that meny people want to spend the energy to start new realm, If they think they will fail. and they try to spend there energy on Ered Duath.

[Xooyan]

Is this just a Belegarth thing? I went to my first Ragnarok this year and was treated well (granted I was with another Western Canadian who'd gone twice before). Hell, people were friendly and impresssed that I had come from the other side of the world. Nobody was going out of their way to start conversations...but I didn't get any cold shoulders when I initiated any.

Nope, sadly not just a Belegarth thing. I got the same thing the last Rag I went to as well.

[Zzyzx]

I may be moving out West soon to Monterey, CA - right now I am in Nashville (Dur-Demarion).

Dur-Demarion is *very* apprieciative of the Western Realms making the trip to come out to our events (Beltaine/Equinox). This past year we've instituted a policy of allowing fighters who make the trip who are 8+ hours away attend for free in appreciation of the effort it takes to get out here. I'm not sure if you'd classify Nashville as being an Eastern Realm, we've always considered ourselves a Southern Realm and are facing a lot of the same challenges as the West. Aside from Dur-De, our realms are small and we do the best we can to support each other's events to help grow the newer realms.

I've been to 9 events this year, and I agree with Xooyan - if you go to a national event in the East it is not typical to be greeted with a warm reception except by the people you already know. I think this is a combination of a couple of things:

1. Size of the event - with the smaller events I've been to this past year (Winter War, Viking Homecoming, etc), the Event Coordinators typically get to meet with everyone who attends the event on an individual basis and you can really feel the gratitude they have for you coming out and supporting their event. At larger events the Event Coordinators seem to have much less bandwidth.

2. People - many people in the game are apprehensive about stepping out of their comfort zone and approaching people they have not met before/not in their realm, but are usually very receptive to someone coming up to them and starting a conversation.

We've been to IL 3 times this year: Spring War, Geddon, OcktoberFest. Spring War was my first IL event ever. At Spring War, virtually no one approached me to introduce themselves or thank us for coming up. We fought as a unit /as a realm during the day, and at night went from camp to camp with drink to share and said hey to anyone who was awake and out and about, we met a bunch of cool people that we looked forward to seeing again and everyone was receptive. When we came back for Geddon and Fest, we came back to see those people again, and were greeted warmly by those friends we'd met earlier in the year and met new people.

So, to *finally* get around to the point: No, I do not think it is just you. I think that everyone not from the realm hosting the event goes through the same thing. You might have to make the first move and introduce yourself, if they are rude or don't seem to care there are plenty of other awesome people to meet and hang out with. Any of you would be welcome to hang out at Dead River Horde camp at any event for as long as you can stand us. Western Realms rock, I should be there soon myself and look forward to fighting with you.

[Sir Par]

I think one of the things that needs to happen is an official declaration by the elected offficers. I think if the Officers are behind the unification of the sport, then we may get closer toghether as a sport.

[Cedric]

It will be good to have ya here Zzyzx. Dur-d has always been warm and inviting, we have always considered many there alot like us, which is one reason I go to EQ and not fest or springwars. EQ is a more friendly atmosphere, and I tend to have so much fun while I am there, and people are always more then willing to apporach me and start a conversation. Plus I get to choak akbar while I am there, and thats fun!

[Sphinx]

Arm, arm, arm *sigh*.

When I went to troll, I was met with a very warm response by Angmarth. That was probably the nicest anyone was to me at the event...besides people that I knew. After that, it all went down hill.

It wasn't even nessisarily that I was treated badly...It was just that I was treated like nothing at all. I remeber walking into circles of conversation with people that I knew and the other people in the group just would not talk to me. I didn't have anyone say hi to me. I remember walking through BOF camp on the way to West camp and having someone yell "who's that". I said "Sphinx". And then they proceeded to continue they're conversation without even acknowleging me. At arm I wasn't "cool" enough to be talked to, but I wasn't "chode" enough to be mocked I suppose.

Now, part of this is my fault, I'm terminally shy. Cedric's told me to knock it off a million times. But there were nights when I tried my damndest to be outgoing and no one really seemed to care. The western camp was what made my trip. Chatting with the the Babylon guys about the "trio", the stupid freakin' milk jug, the club, and the endless bags of doritos still bring a smile to my face. The only "eastern" part of the event that I enjoyed was the fighting. That's why I'll be going back next year. And to hang out with the few people I know who won't ignore me when I say hello.

Now, of course, there are exceptions to this rule. A bunch of the squires of Numenor that I got the opportunity to spar with were awesome for example. Boric and Kenny even remember who I was at EQ. The biggest problems, as I see it, were the big units. To be specific the BOF. I guess that's kinda pointing fingers, but that how I saw it. There was cool people in the BOF...infact most of them are cool on an individual basis, but as a group they view anyone that's not BOF as a chode. I mean, look at they're website! I'm not saying that's the biggest problem with the east, but that was my personal "biggest problem" with arm.

Now, on the flipside of things, EQ was actually pretty friendly. And my reasoning for this is that there wasn't really a whole lot of unit pride being thrown around until the very end...but that's just personal speculation again.

Anyway, yeah. In my experience if you're not treated like crap by the east, you're just treated with apathy.

Now, as for chaos wars...I don't want to create a big disscussion about this, but I don't agree with Julian. Now, granted, I've only been to three chaos wars in my short fighting career, but the first time I went I made friends. I remember BSing with 'cutie from the very beginning. The next year the same thing. Now, I do acknowledge that ED has had some problems with being accepted, but personally I'd look at the fact that a great deal of Ered Duath chooses not to hang out with people outside of their realm. I've seen it happen every year. Perhaps you have had a different experience. *shrug*

As for "solving" our problem with the east? I don't know. I suppose my solution is to just keep on going. If everytime I go, I make atleast one friend, eventually I have enough people to talk with that I wont feel so completely out of place. And if we show the east that the west isn't just going to go away, and we're just as good as they are, maybe the ice will start to melt.

Anyway, I'll step off my soap box now and blend into obscurity.

Oh, one last thing I said hi to you everytime I passed your camp Savetuba . Silly head.

[Sir Par]

Thanx for speaking out sphinx!

[Dame Annika]

all im gonna say is that even though i drove all that way gross burger made it worth it hahahahah

[Kyrax]

Somehow I'm having this deja vu experience. Old line, tightly knit realm(s) of Eastern old guard not being friendly or accepting to newer more scattered smaller western Realms. Add to that mix the typical shy, awkward medievalist types and strong egos, and watch it all explode. Sounds like many of my early Ragnaroks, though I was on the "other" side that time.

You guys have hit on some solutions, including banding together and making our own fun - more western events; more inter-realm activities; and camping and fighting together when we hit Eastern Events. Beyond that, it is a matter of breaking down barriers and meeting more people. Sure, some will be jerks, and others ignorant, but many don't know you and would be happy to meet you. It is also important for those of us who do know easterners to introduce them to our friends in the West, but that is simple courtesy. You may run into Cedric's problem of the eastern 'friend' continuing to be a jerk, but on the other hand some folks will be more open to a friend of a friend.

The other thing that does get attention is to demonstrate our collective competence on the field, and I don't mean as individuals. Back in the early days of Dagorhir the (mid)western folks weren't respected at all mainly because they as a group didn't deserve it. Over time, they and their gear got better and more competitive, but the real sea-change in attitudes came after a few incidents like the Pentwyvern Royal Guard taking out Rome in one unit battle at Rag VI (albeit a pyrrhic victory) or the Numenorians fighting so well at Rag X. While that doesn't necessarily apply in this situation, there is still that prejudice of if I don't know you, you can't be any good.

In the future I'd love to join a Western group going to EQ (cabins = no tents packed) or ARM or another event. Partly to meet more of you (except Ralimar) as well as just to have fun, and to see my old Eastern friends. I know that I've got to make it to CW and other western events too, but I'd love to add another veteran to a Western team so that we can show that we too can fight toe-to-toe with the big boys (and girls).

[Kaegan]

Though i agree with everything people are saying, i need to point out how some people treated the numenorians after the great war and at feast... I for one was not impressed. If anyone recalls, when they went up to accept their award for tourneys/banner.... Who applauded? I'm not saying we aren't treated like ****, but maybe we should look inward as well if things are to change

[Od1n]

Dagmar was with them, who the hell claps for dagmar?

[MeleeMoses]

I don't really remember if we clapped for them or not i was pretty drunk by then....i just remembered that alot of them were kind of * on the feild the whole week.....they just need hugs....and tampons....

[The Duke]

...and plastic surgery for Dagmar.

But yes, I agree with Kaegan on this one. /nod

[Cedric]

yea, i remember yelling at everyone at the feast for booing the easterners and EBF when the banner was handed out. We did show a lack of respect at that point, and acted like sore loosers.......but that brings us back to act better then them, and show the east what the sport is supposed to be like. I expect us al to learn from this and become better participants of the sport.

[Sir Par]

I wasnt there for the feast, but I sure would have been applauding, having been the veteran of many other types of contests, its only polite to salute someone who has bested you. Im sure what * most people off is that the whole west got out-pointed by like five numenorians and 7 EBF.

[Od1n]

Hey, I enjoy booing very much!

[BROPHEX]

In my opinion the tournaments at CW9 were weighted too heavily. That is why the few beat the many.

[Crynolyn]

Sorry that I'm jumping into the discussion so late.

I'm geographically a Westerner. But I sadly make it to more Midwestern events than Western. I feel like a Westerner though.

I wasn't at Arm this year, so I have no idea how you guys were treated. I'm so sorry that people were being jerks.

I agree that that drawing of Madog's on the other thread is pretty offensive to the west. (He wasn't voted the Bof's chode #1 for nothing.)

Here's my two cents on the Western/Eastern thing;

My first Illinios event was Fest 2003. I only knew the Dark Angels/Triad from other events. I didn't feel unwelcome per say, it was just that nobody else knew me. So I just ended up hanging with my "clique".

I went to 6 Belegarth events the next year. By the time it was Octoberfest again, it felt completely different. I knew all sorts of people, and I felt welcome. There are still entire groups that I'm not familiar with, But it gets better every year.

So, I think it's mostly just a matter of not being familiar. I hope that as you make it to more events, you will also make more friends, and you'll feel more welcome. Granted there are bound to be a few *, and there are always those "aloof" elitist snobs, but hopefully they're in the minority.

If I witness any of this "Western Prejudice" taking place in the future, I will try my best to diffuse it.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I can agree with Ryker on Ragnarok. It's a very friendly place. Every year we have brand new Mordoriens who attend, and they make slews of new friends. Maybe it's because there are so many new people at Ragnarok, but I've also seen many of the veterens being really friendly to new people. Even Shade !

The Armegeddon crew are mostly old school, and already have their "cliques". They don't necessarily try to meet new people so much. (But the fighting at Armeggedon is at a higher level of experience than at Ragnarok.)

Sphynx, you are so right about the Brotherhood. At Arm 3 one of them was pretty rude to me, and I'm part of the Triad !! After this guy was told I was a Dark Angel, he apologized (a year later). If I wasn't a Dark Angel, I never would have recieved an apology. And that's not right. I'm sorry for the way they treated you. They recently had a split, and a lot of the bad attitudes left their unit. I hope it will be for the best.

Xooyan, the way Dunharrow treated you at Troll is awful. That would make for a horrible first impression on a new person. Not conductive to growing our sport at all. I'm glad that you're speaking up about it.

Ralimar, the Dark Angel's miss you We haven't forgotten about ya. I've heard a few people asking about you.

Bishop, don't hate the east. There are hundreds of cool people out there. It's just that the nasty ones were making themselves more memorable this year. Give the rest a chance

Zzyzx, You are very fortunate to be coming from such a great Realm. Dur-Demarion is my favorite (next to Mordor that is.) If I had to move somewhere outside Colorado, Nashville would be my first choice. You guys are so * friendly and welcoming. And I agree with what you say about getting out there and introducing yourself. It makes a huge difference.

~~~~~~~~~~
As for improvements;

I would love to see prizes for the people who have traveled the longest. Or some other reward system. Maybe the farthest travelers could be announced at feast or something. A table of honor ? And some extra pie

I strongly agree that people driving a long distance should get in for free. That would help people feel more welcome And help inspire more westerners to make the long drive to Arm. Vice versa for Chaos wars.

Sorry for being so long winded ! Hope to see you guys at events in the coming years !

[savetuba]

I would love to see prizes for the people who have traveled the longest. Or some other reward system. Maybe the farthest travelers could be announced at feast or something. A table of honor ? And some extra pie

I strongly agree that people driving a long distance should get in for free. That would help people feel more welcome And help inspire more westerners to make the long drive to Arm. Vice versa for Chaos wars.

$10 says we were the furthest...wait a minute...Wasn't someone from Cali there?...

ho and I remember saying hi to you sphynix, every time you passed and around 11:30PM (8:30PM my time) where elwrath and a few other drunks desided to try and assault me. A shame drunks don't remember what happened or that I couldn't bring anything really harmful on the plane, because that really * me off. But then if I maimed anyone I doubt I would have any chance to have my say before a linch mob formed.

[Xooyan]

$10 says we were the furthest...wait a minute...Wasn't someone from Cali there?...

Haha... we have you beat on distance Savetuba! We came from San Diego and even then, I think Bend, OR might have all of us beat.

[Od1n]

$10 says we were the furthest...wait a minute...Wasn't someone from Cali there?...

Haha... we have you beat on distance Savetuba! We came from San Diego and even then, I think Bend, OR might have all of us beat.

Yeah we had a hell of a long trip. First we went out of the way to go meet up with Dopp and the Pokey crew, then we drove all the way to Champaign to meet up with Tasis. Then we drove to Danville, It was well over 2,100 miles easy.

[Ralimar]

In the future I'd love to join a Western group going to EQ (cabins = no tents packed) or ARM or another event. Partly to meet more of you (except Ralimar)

Hey! What's wrong with meeting Ralimar??

[The Duke]

You eat people. GG noob, go back home Elijah Wood!

[Etain]

I might be a little late to chime in on this, but my experience in the east has never been something that made me want to go back, but I love fighting and hangin with the people that give me the time of day, which seems to be the West. I really appreciate what you did for us Cedric at last Arm. I know we weren't being social either, hanging out in the west camp, but getting dirty looks was kinda wearing on me. I'll keep going to eastern events, but probably just arm if that, and my only reason is for you guys.

[Xooyan]

Does anyone have a problem with me cross posting this thread in the Arm forum?