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The hero Belegarth deserves, but not the one it needs right now. So we'll hunt him because he can take it. Because he's not our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. A Viking *.
Kyrian wrote:Thanks to the rain gods (that includes you, Gorlock)
Xooyan wrote:I'm interested to see that your priorities lie with those who are closer to the event. I understand the problem, trust me. I simply disagree that we should be less concerned about people who come from far away. The west is a significant portion of our membership and they just got cut out of the event because people think it's more important to schedule around Rag than around their OWN people. That stinks in my opinion.
I'm glad you at least understand that we should think of a more long term solution. But I'm most sorry that so many young westerners will miss out this year.
Sorry, but I still think this is crap and short sighted crap at that.
As far as hundreds of students go, the most people we have ever had attend from the west has been maybe 30 (though this may be because it has always interfered with school). A move to the week of Rag, or the week after very well might cause a much larger drop in attendance than we would gain by additional western (student) attendance. I truly don't know. I also agree if it was a delta of 100s of attendees that could be gained by moving it a couple of weeks, it would be a no brainer.
Option two. The date gets turned in tommorrow, but we start an open discussion weighing pros and cons, talk to unit and realm leaders and get actual estimates about how many people we would lose from the two options, rather than just saying "well a bunch of people wouldn't come if we do this or that." Then as soon as we can, we make a choice, and if we decide the 11th-18th isn't good, we try to change the reservation. Of course this option depends on whether or not Forest Glen would be willing to let us change a reservation, or whether other groups take the other week anyways.
Kegg, you pointed out the problems in your own argument already.
The hero Belegarth deserves, but not the one it needs right now. So we'll hunt him because he can take it. Because he's not our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. A Viking *.
Kyrian wrote:Thanks to the rain gods (that includes you, Gorlock)
Obryn wrote:I think it's safe to say that, until it was mentioned in this thread, Kazi didn't know that the week selected for June would bar a lot of Westerners from attending. I know that I didn't know this until right now. I really find it hard to believe that Kazi and the Iowa realms would intentionally choose a bad date.
Obryn wrote:Armageddon's always been in June. There's no reason that it will always have to be, apart from climate issues. On average, July is hotter & muggier than June. On the other hand, it also has less rain. While I'm sure it's way too late to do anything about this Armageddon, Wolfpack is hosting the next one and I'm sure we can work with other dates to make sure as many people as possible can attend.
Obryn wrote:I'm really concerned about this issue with Westerners being treated poorly. I have heard very little about it from anyone, apart from a brief mention here and there. I certainly didn't see any of it. I have a feeling that this is the root problem, and that it's making the dates issue seem more personal than it really is.
Xooyan wrote:Not true. I've been following this discussion on the NB board and pointedly asking that it be discussed here when I post.
You can see that thread here
http://www.nanbelegorn.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=84
The west has been discussing it in the western forum. Here's a look at the thread of discussion.
http://www.belegarth.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=13558&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
I think you can see that many people are trying to figure out how to fix the problem. Yeah, some people are just venting, but most are trying to come up with practical ways to encourage a change. Those easterners that have gone to CHaos Wars will tell you that the west tries very hard to be inviting and encourage interaction.
I also tried to bring up things with the Iowa realms that I thought would help them plan for Arm in a way that would be more open and pleasant for Belegarth membership that lives far away from the midwest. I'd like to point out that this isn't just a western issue. I've heard the same kind of stuff from Southern Marches as well.
No offense Obryn, but if you didn't see it, it's my opinion that you weren't looking. I'm not saying you're part of the problem. I've appreciated your work at inclusion over the years. Wolfpack and Numenor have a long standing record of support for the formation of new realms. My beef is more with a large portion of people who seem to think that realms from somewhere other than the "core" of the country are just a bunch of newbs for them to **** on and make themselves feel big and tough.
Yeah, I am upset about this and rightly so. This is a problem that needs to be addressed by Belegarth as a whole (east, west and in between). We talk numbers and say we want to grow and then we get new groups or new faces and we say "great! Fresh meat to treat like crap" rather than "great! more members to welcome to the sport." There is a fundamental problem with that and it's about time we started addressing it.
Again, I've never gone to the Western forum. I'm not a member, and haven't asked for membership. I'm glad that this is coming up now, but I kind of resent the implication that I should have seen it all along in these places that I've never had a call to look.
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