Post 'geddon thoughts

Threads with info from past events

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Postby Big King Jimmy » Wed Jun 21, 2006 12:32 am

Sonus wrote:My tent was about 40-45 feet away from their camp, the people in the camp were having extremely loud sex. I'm not trying to sound like a square, because we all know how cool I am, but it was rediculous.


He's really not putting enough emphasis on how loud it was. I was nearly passed out in Dunharrow camp, and it not only woke me up, but convinced me to go out and try to figure out what poor animal was caught in a bear trap. Because man, that's far louder than that should be, so it MUST have been a wounded animal.
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Postby Nuri » Wed Jun 21, 2006 6:16 am

Big Jimmy wrote:
Is there any kind of coaching given to groups who run week long events for the first time? I mean, most of it is pretty obvious, Troll is check in, people need to be fed, and so forth, but it's gotta be more complicated than it looks. What sort of things are done to help prep a group for this kind of thing?


I once put together (for class) a system plan for spring wars. I and a few others are currently in the process of updating it as a larger event planning guide.

If there is anything you want specifically in it, please let me know. email sol.oriens AT gmail.com or pm me here.


btw, I totally digged the picnics. WAY to make the best of a bad situation.
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Postby xiao » Wed Jun 21, 2006 7:59 am

I personally think loud sex should be excused. :)
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Postby Winfang » Wed Jun 21, 2006 8:12 am

Loud sex is no excuse to drop someone's tent. People should have tried to handle this in a mature fashion, not like a couple children.

Maybe mandatory quiet hours could be put into place to prevent this from happening again.
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Postby Izareth » Wed Jun 21, 2006 8:32 am

I will put together a checklist/suggestion list of items and proceedures used when Events are thrown in Dur-Demarion. I will do my best to make it universal and not have it too specific to Montgomery Bell. That park does a lot of the work for us, so it shouldn't be taken into account.

First things:

You can only tangibly act on a few things a long time before the event.

-Event Tokens
-Feast PRICING and PLANS
(in my experience, pricing of anything too early will change by the time of the event, mostly with food items in bulk. These food items often change due to season)
-A feast run-through (People will come in and there will be bread at the table, let them start, bring a pitcher of drink. Then bring in the soup...)
-For outdoor sites GP large of some kind of equipment/ people dryness area should be considered
-THE WEATHER IS BEYOND YOUR CONTROL. Don't worry, it does no good.
-While it would be nice to keep people's finals in mind it unfortunately is not feasable. The ordeal regarding this trying to plan Geddon this year proves that intentions are good, but NO TIME is great for everybody.
-Know every member of your group with a truck(this is a lifesaver)
-Every event HQ should have these things
1) Trash Bags
2)Med Kits
3)Cash Box and Accounting info sheets
4)Waivers
5)Paper and pens
6)Flash lights
7)Map of Site
8)Rules of site
9)Rules for event activities
10)Some basic tools are helpful

There's probably more, this is off the top of my head.

These things the group can do:

Get jazzed about battle ideas, it will help to keep the field going if innovation is encouraged. This is the alternative to insulting battle variations in lieu of Unit Battles, and then tromping off of the field afterward complaining about **** heralds and rhino-hiding.

Do small consistant things, Like grabbing a trash bag from troll when you set up for the day by the field. It's better to pick up a trash bag from the side of the field than a hundred pieces of scattered trash.

All for now; print it, live it, have it at your next event.

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Postby Chibi » Wed Jun 21, 2006 8:59 am

The tokens were pretty bland in their original state, and, as someone said, the "decorations" were born of boredom, not malice. Rogue had a whole bunch of Sharpies and went to town on a bunch of them, and the people working Troll(including me) usually decorated a few while sitting there. I apologize if you got an offensive one (I tried to kind of sift those out into their own pile), but I know that for as many offensive ones, there were also nice, tasteful ones. I just don't want it to sound like everyone's token said "suck my *" or "Duruk-hai" on it. We were also exchanging tokens if you got one that you didn't like.

I apologize for the crudeness of some of the tokens, but it was not something meant to offend any individual.

I believe Nan Belegorn did a fantastic job running their first major event. Although it was supposed to be "Iowa" running this event, we in Tir Asleen had little to do with it (Bhakdar and Ahki were the major TA volunteers, and they're both originally from Nan Belegorn). I thank NB for picking up the slack and keeping the event running for us. It's not an easy or fun task.
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Postby Renato » Wed Jun 21, 2006 10:29 am

I apologize if this has been said before, I didn't necessarily read ALL the replies very carefully, but re: the heat:

I suggest that we come up with a different schedule for fighting (besides separating knight trials from peak combat time), at least in this weather. I was only their for combat saturday, but the main combat was between 12 and 2 - this is the hottest time of the day! Could it have been scheduled so that people fought early and late, and took a break around noon? Even if it means just the early birds sparring, say, 9-12, then big combat maybe 3-dark? When I checked in Friday around 6 one of the people in the troll tent made a similar comment - "now that it's cool enough to fight, not many people are out here"
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Postby Nuri » Wed Jun 21, 2006 11:55 am

Ariel wrote:I apologize if this has been said before, I didn't necessarily read ALL the replies very carefully, but re: the heat:

I suggest that we come up with a different schedule for fighting (besides separating knight trials from peak combat time), at least in this weather. I was only their for combat saturday, but the main combat was between 12 and 2 - this is the hottest time of the day! Could it have been scheduled so that people fought early and late, and took a break around noon? Even if it means just the early birds sparring, say, 9-12, then big combat maybe 3-dark? When I checked in Friday around 6 one of the people in the troll tent made a similar comment - "now that it's cool enough to fight, not many people are out here"


This was already being kicked around for next geddon, and at this point, I believe we loved the idea at our mini-meeting the Rhun and Pack had.


Izzy: Thanks for the checklist, it is very helpful. While you can't do a lot of action things before an event, the planning is difficult. Pack has an amazing resource of people who are capable of planning many aspects of events. They won't be around forever and that's the main part of the system plan-so that the next generation knows what goes into running Troll, and how to figure out medics or security.
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Postby Xooyan » Wed Jun 21, 2006 11:59 am

Theros the Large wrote:Anyone who has comments or concerns about Armageddon next year is more than welcome to post comments on the Armageddon 6 forum on the Wolfpack board.

Bo and I are heading up the coordination and we have a whole mess of great people plotting and planning for next year.

There are a lot of things about Armageddon that we can make better, so lets start brainstorming folks!

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I want to thank all of the people who gave up sleep, fighting time and sweat to pull of this years Geddon.

I know how thankless and crappy event running can be.

I do like the idea about the "Banner game" to give the pranksters some kind of mostly harmless outlet for thier obsession.


I am literally BEGGING Wolfpack and Rhun to discuss their plans for Armageddon on the main Belegarth Board in this forum. I remain convinced that one primary problem with Nan Belegorn's planning last year was that it was done on their own boards away from the general populace of Belegarth. I know it was open to post your thoughts there. If you check their boards you will see that I did so; however, most of our bretheren frequent THIS board, not realm specific boards.

Please, please, please talk about event planning here in the forum that was created for that purpose as a means to keep the information and suggestions flowing.
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Postby Leodicris » Wed Jun 21, 2006 1:12 pm

I think everyone brings up some good points here... granted some of them are not fully informed.... but realizing this and taming your language and tone especially when the one your responding to was another person that poured way more than necessary into the event would behoove your efforts to rectifying the issues greatly. It's hard for someone to listen to what you have to say when your first words are your an *.... or F this and F that. Then the whole list of good ideas becomes crap. All I ask is to read what youve typed when your done before hitting that little submit button. Cleaning up the language and tones could greatly increase our effectiveness at addresing the issue.

IZZY I've been thinking for quite a while now that if shenanigans cant stop than some kind of rules system is in order. I'll try to spend some free time coming up with a rough draft proposal.
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Postby Leodicris » Wed Jun 21, 2006 1:15 pm

no offense winfang, but i think having or enforcing something like a mandatory quiet hours would cross the line from rule making to attendance diminishing.
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Postby Theros the Large » Wed Jun 21, 2006 2:17 pm

If people would be more comfortable talking about things here on this UBB as well I am completely fine with that.

In fact I will make a post that will be dedicated to questions and comments about Armageddon. IF one of you mods could make it a sticky I would appreciate it.

Everyone's input is welcome. Wolfpack and Rhun are going to do everything in our power to make next years Armageddon outstanding.
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Postby Izareth » Wed Jun 21, 2006 5:50 pm

I think that maybe we can start out the rules for Shennanigans with something like an OUT-OF-PLAY mark. If you don't find it funny, and your guys go out and pick fights with other units who may retaliate by stealing your flag, they may think again if your flag is indicated as an out of play item by the event staff.

Something, a colored Zip tie with a laminated tag, or something equally as difficult to remove an item will indicate:

You are not retaliating against the Horde by stealing this, you are only causing a headache for event organizers, because they will be immediately informed.

You cut the owners out of the ordeal and add pressure directly from the event staff and participants. The tag makes it Event property.


Subsequently, if an item is not carrying the tag (which should be readily available from Troll, or from organizers) your item is in play. You don't mind, and if it turns up missing, you believe it will be returned unscathed (as it should be) or you believe you can go fight to bring it back.


Otherwise, stealing or property damage is against the rules of shennanigans. I was surprised to hear that the castle was not cleanable without damage when vandalized with mud. I know it's been done several times, and I had no idea. In good fun, damage should not occur.
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Postby Xooyan » Wed Jun 21, 2006 6:00 pm

Nice idea Izareth. That would make it relatively simple to put your stuff out of play if you want. I like this plan.
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Postby bo1 » Wed Jun 21, 2006 8:59 pm

I like better the idea of having sacred items and flags delivered by troll. this way there is no personal prooperty involved in the game. if something does get broken its the events and it was assumed to be in play. i want to be very clear that if any one touches anything not from troll it is stealing, athourities will be called. i put alot of hard work and money into the tower, if it got damaged i wouldn't bring it back, nor would i continue to build my castle for events.
Shinanigans is a fun game, if done correctly.
i think each group thats wants to play gets a flag and a sacred item. these are to be displayed near the main fire. 2 points will be awarded for the flag and 1 for the sacred item. 5 points for both if they are turned in to troll at the same time. i can make the flags fairly cheaply. the items will be from a dollar store or something and painted up. The items will all be differently colored and marked for who got what. The team that has their items taken the east will get a shield for protecting the item sthe best. the team that steals the most will get a sword.
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Postby Dabbanoth » Wed Jun 21, 2006 9:03 pm

i think its a good idea and all that, and i know that alot of time and money must go into such things, but i honestly doubt the police would look too much into it, i mean, we run around in costumes with foam weapons, im not saying they arent of great value, just considering who we are, im not sure how much pull we have with the authorities
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Postby Thorondor » Wed Jun 21, 2006 10:24 pm

After reading the thread, I wish I could have been there to help *grumbles about being sick...again*

The only thing I have to suggest is about the Shannanigins.

I feel that the tags should be the other way around. If there's a tag on it, it's in play. No tag is off limits. This will keep the people from cutting the tag off and lying about how they didn't see the tag, etc. If you number the tags at troll and keep a log, it would be next to impossible to put a tag onto an item and declare it in play if you have to get a specialized tag from troll to put ON the item.

A random numbering system would make this even more useful (no 1-100, etc) If anything, make it a simple complex number. Day of the event, time the tag was passed out (2-1325 for the 2nd day of the event at 1:25pm). Or even Day, morning/afternoon/evening, #given out (4-305 for the 4th day of the event being the 5th tag given out that evening).

The log could look something like this:
1) Uruk-Hai banner -- tag # 1-1030
2) Horde banner -- tag # 2-1525
3) Dark Guard eye -- tag #2-1545

That way someone couldn't add their own tag in because it wouldn't be on the log at troll. They could do all they wanted to try and copy the tag design and tag #, but it would never match. This type of numbering would only work as a deterant, same with any other system we could come up with. As long as people LOOK to see if a tag is attached to the item, it would be in play. I could even see units/realms/etc making CHEAP banners to put into play while putting out their nice banners for show.

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Postby Cyric » Wed Jun 21, 2006 11:03 pm

If someone else wants to do all this work, fine. but i don't think that shenannigans is very high on anyone's to do list that's running this event.

if people want to do play, they can make their own "shenannigan only" stuff and use that. giving people an outlet for their childish pranks isn't something an event coordinator should be in charge of.
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Postby Angmarth » Thu Jun 22, 2006 7:43 am

Shennanagins are dumb, because you aren't being funny. You are stealing and vandalizing someone else's stuff. If people want to play a game like that, they need to set it up at troll. Numenor did a game like this at RAG XV with runes in camps. We GAVE people those items, we didn't use their property. If the coordinators want to supply items for Shennanagins that's fine, otherwise they need to stop.
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Postby Izareth » Thu Jun 22, 2006 7:46 am

My idea listed above is not part of an overall Banner game. It is an assertion on how we can illustrate as a group that someone's property is not to be messed with. I do believe that the banner game is a separate discussion from indicators that participants can use to ward off offenders. Pretty much anything Horde has will always be in play, whatever it is. But other groups will never put their stuff in play. At an event where there is no Banner competition, we can still flag items as a service of Belegarth, just to keep stuff from being vandalized "in fun" and causing bad feelings.

It takes out guesswork.

I believe it is a good idea to make thoughts as clear as possible. And universally understood flagging in the game that is unmistakable is a good start to neutralizing the "no means yes" excuses groupwide.
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Postby Kegg » Thu Jun 22, 2006 8:26 am

Izareth, I do not want ANY of my stuff messed with by people doing shenanigans. I believe probably 90% of people feel the same way. Do I need to tag my car? My tent? Every one of my weapons? Over the last three years the castle has been vandalized on at least a half a dozen occasions, taking at least 12 hours of cleaning (and a repaint).

The system of tagging everything you don't want *#%$ed with is unworkable. I completely believe the rule should be don't *#%$ with other peoples stuff. Period.

If you feel that this activity is a vital part of someones fun, then the only stuff that should be messed with is stuff that is clearly marked "mess with".
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Postby Izareth » Thu Jun 22, 2006 9:04 am

Excellent point.

My take on the situation is that people are often fuelled by the ire of people they dissagree with. With some excuse or anonymity, perhaps some hint that there is a game there, they go ahead and take the stuff.

Your suggestion of a clear indicator of what is in-play is a better idea. I think that in many cases people know that they are upsetting others, and personal differences with those others have become part of the draw. This needs to stop.

I think by allowing the play to continue, but indicating clearly that the organizers of the event are supportive of those who wish to eliminate their items draws a much clearer line, and makes it harder for people to hide behind an argument of innocence or ignorance.

Maybe I'm trying to ease into it to slowly, but I have a hard time seeing the attitude of it being harmless going away. So I instead say take ownership from those being messed with, and make it an event problem. I can see someone taking something out on a unit with which they don't get along, I see much more reluctance to mess with event runners, who have recently gained more respect for the work they do.

Other opinions are very important to me on this. I have tried to explain my thinking, and I do also understand yours Kegg. Am I too soft, or do I make sense at all, in your opinion.
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Postby Big King Jimmy » Thu Jun 22, 2006 10:53 am

The sport is divided by those who like shinanigans, and those that don't. Those that don't simply want them abolished, in fact claim they need to be all together, those they like them are trying to come up with a rules set for them that those that don't like them will never agree to.

I think that shinanigans is part of the greater roleplaying that goes on at events. Goblins steal things. When they are returned unharmed, I think it's cool.

I can see both sides, but wish there to be a way to please both parties.
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Postby Twitch » Thu Jun 22, 2006 12:35 pm

I totally agree with jimmy on that- I love the roleplaying aspect of the sport- and i see people who are more into the roleplaying aspect being the ones that are trying to keep shinnanigines into play here- cyric isn't huge into the roleplaying, so he just as well wants them to stop- everyone knows that izzy likes roleplaying and he's trying to figure out how to keep it in the game- it's just attests to how different people in the sport play the game

I don't think that something that does give an outlet for roleplaying in the sport should be entirely taken away

At the same time- I would really never want to anger anyone else- I've always had my own set of rules for shinanigins that most people who hang around me a lot know

-If i take your stuff, i tell one of your friends that i have it, but not to tell them so they can try to get it back on there own, and if they are unsuccessful/get */don't realise it's gone, then they're friend knows where it is and can retrieve it
-i don't have it leave the general vicinity, i either have it on me and stay around for them to notice it's gone, or hide it in their campsite/house/ect and stay close if you can't find it, or tell someone else where it is so you eventually find it
-you will always get it back unharmed by the time you leave, and if for some reason it breaks or is damaged or lost while in my possesion i will buy/make a replica so you still can have it

so i personally using guidelines for myself have yet to actually seriously anger anyone because to me it is game and games arn't meant to make anyone upset, just give everyone a good laugh- when i sense someone actual is upset by it, the game ends, because the people in the sport are suppose to be friends, and by that, be friendly to eachother.

heres some ideas that i had for making bigger shinanigines a game, like what izzy and some other people where talking about

-it could be more like the assisnins tourny where you go report your success to a particular person that you just have to go find (like this years troll- the person not the place) rather then making it one more thing for troll the place to have to deal with

-or you could have everyone who stole the 'banner(s)' the previous night, turn the banner(s) in the next morning at a pre-designated location so they don't have to go looking for the person every night, which I know got to sometimes be a difficult task trying to track someone down, although it was doable.

Another idea would be to have certain banners be worth more then others based on how hard they would be to steal. you could have one generic belegarth banner located close to main fire (but not close enough to have a safety concern) that would be worth the most points because it would be more difficult to steal something with that many people around it all the time, or points based off of what time it was stolen, with a time like 9 pm being a lot more difficult (because more people are awake and alert) then like 5am
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Postby Twitch » Thu Jun 22, 2006 12:36 pm

I totally agree with jimmy on that- I love the roleplaying aspect of the sport- and i see people who are more into the roleplaying aspect being the ones that are trying to keep shinnanigines into play here- cyric isn't huge into the roleplaying, so he just as well wants them to stop- everyone knows that izzy likes roleplaying and he's trying to figure out how to keep it in the game- it's just attests to how different people in the sport play the game

I don't think that something that does give an outlet for roleplaying in the sport should be entirely taken away

At the same time- I would really never want to anger anyone else- I've always had my own set of rules for shinanigins that most people who hang around me a lot know

-If i take your stuff, i tell one of your friends that i have it, but not to tell them so they can try to get it back on there own, and if they are unsuccessful/get */don't realise it's gone, then they're friend knows where it is and can retrieve it
-i don't have it leave the general vicinity, i either have it on me and stay around for them to notice it's gone, or hide it in their campsite/house/ect and stay close if you can't find it, or tell someone else where it is so you eventually find it
-you will always get it back unharmed by the time you leave, and if for some reason it breaks or is damaged or lost while in my possesion i will buy/make a replica so you still can have it

so i personally using guidelines for myself have yet to actually seriously anger anyone because to me it is game and games arn't meant to make anyone upset, just give everyone a good laugh- when i sense someone actual is upset by it, the game ends, because the people in the sport are suppose to be friends, and by that, be friendly to eachother.

heres some ideas that i had for making bigger shinanigines a game, like what izzy and some other people where talking about

-it could be more like the assisnins tourny where you go report your success to a particular person that you just have to go find (like this years troll- the person not the place) rather then making it one more thing for troll the place to have to deal with

-or you could have everyone who stole the 'banner(s)' the previous night, turn the banner(s) in the next morning at a pre-designated location so they don't have to go looking for the person every night, which I know got to sometimes be a difficult task trying to track someone down, although it was doable.

Another idea would be to have certain banners be worth more then others based on how hard they would be to steal. you could have one generic belegarth banner located close to main fire (but not close enough to have a safety concern) that would be worth the most points because it would be more difficult to steal something with that many people around it all the time, or points based off of what time it was stolen, with a time like 9 pm being a lot more difficult (because more people are awake and alert) then like 5am
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Postby Winfang » Thu Jun 22, 2006 12:42 pm

The non-sense like defacing the castle, dropping tents, * on people equipment, etc. needs to stop. People need to respect other's property. Shinanigans is a broad and general term and people need to realize this.

If people want to play a game that includes swiping things from others, then let someone create the rules for it (like Izareth is doing). Similar to the Assassin's tourney. Make it self-contained so the event coordinators and people are not apart of it are not burdened by it.
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Postby Leodicris » Thu Jun 22, 2006 12:43 pm

the taggin of things considered "in play" sounds best... I am tired myself of my unit getting trashtalked because one dumbass or another did something stupid or got a stupid idea from someone else in the unit and I have to hear about it after the fact. When I hear of dumb ideas from someone I know..... I quelch it. but i digress... the tagging of things "in play" and booting of anyone messing with non tagged items sounds like a middle ground solution to me.....
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Postby Kegg » Thu Jun 22, 2006 2:01 pm

Big Jimmy wrote:I think that shinanigans is part of the greater roleplaying that goes on at events. Goblins steal things. When they are returned unharmed, I think it's cool.
I can see both sides, but wish there to be a way to please both parties.


I NEVER find it cool when my stuff is stolen, even if it is later returned. I didn't make it for someone else to steal, I didn't give them permission to take it. It is plain wrong. It makes me not want to bring nice things to an event because some jackass will take it.

I am even more upset when something is vandalized, requiring hours of work to fix it, at events where I am already doing 10s of hours of volunteer work, so some idiot who is not helping run the event can get a few laughs. It really must stop.

Play shenanigans on other goblins (or others who wish to participate). Do not play shenanigans on people who do not wish to be involved. It is a serious violation of their personal property and shows a complete lack of respect.
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Postby Kegg » Thu Jun 22, 2006 2:13 pm

Twitch wrote:-or you could have everyone who stole the 'banner(s)' the previous night, turn the banner(s) in the next morning at a pre-designated location so they don't have to go looking for the person every night, which I know got to sometimes be a difficult task trying to track someone down, although it was doable.


Twitch... you are welcome to run and organize any game you wish, but people should not have to go "looking" for their stuff. It should be exactly where they left it (if it is in their camp). Make banners to be stolen if you feel like it would be a fun game, but my guess is very few units would participate. Most people put stuff up to make their camps look nice or medieval, not to give someone a thrill when they steal it.

And to be honest, most shennanigans happen to be people who the perpetrator happen to have a disagreement with. That they don't like there attitude on the field, think the group is a little square or has no sense of humor. They don't pick on the "popular kids". It often is very juvenille.

I have absolutely no problem with a game involving stealing guarded banners. Might even participate. What must stop is shennanigans with unwilling participants.
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Postby Izareth » Thu Jun 22, 2006 3:43 pm

Kegg, again I absolutely agree. The main issue is respect for one another here. I think by separating this activity and clarifying who is "playing" and who is not, we can reach the heart of the matter.

If the things being taken are not in-play, it is obvious that it is personal malice. With no game to hide behind, the perpetrators will be aware that they are doing this to get at people with whom they don't get along. The activity can then be addressed as what it is: vandalism/ theft.

If people are bored and looking to do something, they will be faced with the decision, "do I want to go after so-and-so's banner, the event coordinators will be notified and have to get it back, and if I get caught, it's considered theft and I'll be kicked out. Maybe there is a guarded in-play banner I could go after."

It may be a pipe-dream, but it could be a start. I think that zero tolerance is wrought with problems ranging from more event ejections to unsubstantiated assumptions about who took said item. I might think twice before returning someone else's property that I found in my camp because they might call for my ejection or the ejection of someone in my group.
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Postby bo1 » Thu Jun 22, 2006 4:24 pm

arm VI shannanigins rules:

i think each group thats wants to play gets a flag and a sacred item. these are to be displayed near the main fire. 2 points will be awarded for the flag and 1 for the sacred item. 5 points for both if they are turned in to troll at the same time. i can make the flags fairly cheaply. the items will be from a dollar store or something and painted up. The items will all be differently colored and marked for who got what. The team that has their items taken the least will get a shield for protecting the items the best. the team that steals the most will get a sword.
the gaem starts at 6 pm and ends at midnight. If the items are reported missing and not turned in to troll by midnight, no points are awarded, team found to have the item(s) is DQ'd. If a team doesn't display the items at the main fire, they are DQ'd. after friday night at midnight the scores will be tallied up and anounced at sat feast.
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Postby Twitch » Fri Jun 23, 2006 12:17 am

bo1-
the biggest problem that i see with that is that no one ever knows what time it is because no one wears a watch, so who knows when six or midnight is. Exspecially if you are DQing people just for being late on returning the game item. I think that it might be better to have them be times that can be told without a watch, such as starting once main battles are over, or starting and dusk.
as for turning stuff in because no one will know when midnight is, maybe having it go all night and having people turn it in like by the time weapons check starts or closes the next morning.
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Postby Big King Jimmy » Fri Jun 23, 2006 1:11 am

Kegg wrote:
Big Jimmy wrote:I think that shinanigans is part of the greater roleplaying that goes on at events. Goblins steal things. When they are returned unharmed, I think it's cool.
I can see both sides, but wish there to be a way to please both parties.


I NEVER find it cool when my stuff is stolen, even if it is later returned. I didn't make it for someone else to steal, I didn't give them permission to take it. It is plain wrong. It makes me not want to bring nice things to an event because some jackass will take it.

I am even more upset when something is vandalized, requiring hours of work to fix it, at events where I am already doing 10s of hours of volunteer work, so some idiot who is not helping run the event can get a few laughs. It really must stop.

Play shenanigans on other goblins (or others who wish to participate). Do not play shenanigans on people who do not wish to be involved. It is a serious violation of their personal property and shows a complete lack of respect.


I should have mentioned something about "only stealing from those that are cool with it."

Our "Dunharrow Cove" sign got stolen from in front of our camp. Who ever did it was such a ninja that I didn't even realise it till after I saw it sitting by our fire. Go them.

I thought it was even funnier when I sat in on too groups discussing a deal to exchange flags, instead of simply stealing from eachother.

When people realise that things are suddenly missing, like a banner that is large and in plain site, and they sit back and go "How did I not notice that?" and then laugh, and later find it sitting on their picnic table, well I just think that's totally awesome.

But I can see someone else disagreeing. There are camps that just aren't cool with this kind of thing. It's obvious who they are, leave them alone.

But you know, feel free to take my stuff, as long as it's not stuff that you know, I use all the time. Like my keys.
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Postby Bodmin » Fri Jun 23, 2006 6:09 am

well I had a good time at arm
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Postby Leodicris » Fri Jun 23, 2006 6:51 am

that's cuz it rocked. with our without any faults anyone could('nt) find in it.
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Postby bo1 » Fri Jun 23, 2006 11:58 am

as for the time... get a watch and look at it, its a game and games have rules, just like the rest of Bel. if you cant follow the rules then you can't play. just like every game i have every played in my life. the time is for the courtisy of people trying to sleep, not everybody wants to stay up all night to play a side game.
if you want to start after the fighting is called then that is fine but midnight it is done for the night.
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Postby Mekoot Gorlock » Fri Jun 23, 2006 9:53 pm

almost all things involving things going missing happens well after midnight. putting a time cap on it would make it pointless to run.
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Postby Derian » Sat Jun 24, 2006 8:43 am

Also, capping it at midnight (which I understand because some people want to sleep) won't do anything. People are still going to be loud after midnight; that's how events work.
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Postby bo1 » Sun Jun 25, 2006 10:03 am

being loud is fine, i am no prude. make it 2 am then, or 3 am. I was thinking of people that don't want to stay up that late and gaurd their stuff. but hell make the game from dusk til dawn. that would be great.
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Postby Ye Olde eyrtk! » Sun Jun 25, 2006 12:07 pm

I'd like to and say thanks to everyone who helped out at the event, notably Gorlock, Jesus, Troll, and Thantan who were there running the event and heralding all week, to Plthuit (or however you spell that) and Elrosse for helping even though they drove from Idaho, to the southern guys for running Saturday's feast and helping more than they should, to Bran for taking care of his problems helping out with loose ends he noticed, and Numenor for setting everything up for when we got there. And to all the other people who I didn't name who helped out. Kudos all around, we got the **** end of the stick and did the best we could and that's all there is to it.

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Arm 5

Postby Satanaka » Mon Jun 26, 2006 11:10 am

Any and all events are tough- and hard work. Anyone that has organized, helped or had anything to do with running and event knows that it is not easy and there is a ton of work that has to be done that the mass population knows nothing about.

I give thanks to all that do help- that volunteer to do an event. Sometimes it seems that the same people end up work at almost any event- that's cool- cause they are good people- but sad that THEY always end up doing work.

As for myself or people that I know that went- it was the worse Arm ever. I will have to agree with V'Hil on this one. I thought the main person at troll was a complete *. I did not like the event token and it was not appreciated. I srugged it of and just associated it with the person in troll that was an *. >:(

At almost every event- I go to- I have volunteered to help- BUT after the way I was treated at troll- I can see why our numbers are lower at Arm- than at any other event. I can see why people are going to Rag instead.
As with V'hil- we haver had things taken and stoled, and damaged. We have had the "oh- sorry- we will fix it" but of course- never happened. I don't like the pranks- cause not all people want to play such games. It also seems that when something is done to certain people that like to do tricks- they get a little bent out of shape- so I see better to NOT do anything like that.

As for just 7 people running the evnt for NB- well- we have always had people willing to help- and will/ did offer and hand. Running Arm with 7 people is about impossible without help. I thank you each for taking on the responsability.

I was only there for Friday- and only watched the field fighting. I decided to come back on Saturday around 5pm and left that night. I never had anything at feast and just wanted to visit with some people.

Out of that short amount of time- one person from NB was a very good guy that spoke with me and assisted me in the farse that was troll. I won't mention names- BUT in my mind- he redeemed the actions of the * in troll.

Like many people that have been around a long time and been to many events as well as help/ assisted/ ran many events- People like Izrath, Kegg, Diago, V'Hill, and many other people, units and realms that almost ALWAYS help- i saw many of them working and assisting.

Events like Arm, Octoberfest, Springwars, Chaos, Equinox, Beltaine are big events- that take many people to make haapen to and to be a success.
I still had fun- visiting with people and seeing old friends- BUT I also did not like a few things and wish it could have been better.

I do give thanks to all that helped and I do know how tough it is- all the "unsung" heros - like people that clean up- get wood- all those people that sweat and work to make the little things happen that mean a lot. NOT to even mention feast!!!! shesh- that is a whole book of it's own.

Thank you all and don't give up- there are many of us that do appreciate your hard work.

Respectfully,
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Postby Jesus » Mon Jun 26, 2006 12:48 pm

Hey Satanaka I remeber seeing you there.

Every one should just read the posts made by Eyrtk and Gorlock. Read them again before you post or say that this event sucked and was the worst yet. All you are doing is belittleing the work that went into this event. It's not constructive coments at all. You are insulting the people who ran the event.

I would kindly ask that comments be kept respectful and kind. Thank you.
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Postby Xooyan » Mon Jun 26, 2006 3:08 pm

Jesus wrote:Hey Satanaka I remeber seeing you there.

Every one should just read the posts made by Eyrtk and Gorlock. Read them again before you post or say that this event sucked and was the worst yet. All you are doing is belittleing the work that went into this event. It's not constructive coments at all. You are insulting the people who ran the event.

I would kindly ask that comments be kept respectful and kind. Thank you.
[/quote]

Saying that an event was the worst you have been to might be an insult, but it might also be a wake up call. Some of the things I'm seeing people complain about were very specifically addressed in regard to Arm 4 and apparently completely ignored as concerns by the event organizers. I know exactly how hard it is to run an event (been there), so don't take this as a belittling of your effort on my part. From what I can tell NB had several large hurtles to overcome, not the least of which seems to have been a lack of numbers. However, the complaints are no less legitimate. Accept the complaints in the best way, as evidence that Belegrim want to improve our events.
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Postby Izareth » Mon Jun 26, 2006 3:14 pm

I didn't run into any problems with Troll. How were they asses, or how was the person in charge of Troll an *? If the next encounter at Troll was enough to redeem the first, why mention the first so predominantly?

I don't think this sort of observation is constructive. I see no examples of 'I was treated like this, or, if they could have just done this instead'.

The Shennanigans have gone too far, targeting people who are bound to get upset, for that reason. I'm all for marking what is off-limits and penalizing those who molest those off-limits items.

As the Uruk Banner was in my Truck the following morning, and I had nothing to do with its molestation, I'm against a zero tolerance approach.

Let's keep things constructive while looking back. That is often the hardest time to criticise constructively, but also the most important time.

BTW, the Horde banner was taken one night too, we made no fuss, and it was returned with no harm done.
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Postby Bodmin » Mon Jun 26, 2006 7:59 pm

Satanaka in what way was jesus being an * to you?
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Postby Spork » Mon Jun 26, 2006 8:42 pm

You could have event schedulers make flags to be stolen, it's not hard to buy 3 pieces of PVC cut them into 3 foot sections and get dollar bin Wal-Mart fabric, and sew a little flag. This wouldn't work if you get a kick out of stealing someones flag just because it has their "symbol" on it.

It doesn't sound like a horrible thing that people are stealing flags, but I agree with Izzy on this one, it'd be much better if everything was off-limits except for things that are marked. (I think it was Thorondor, who mentioned it.) I haven't been to enough events to see things like this happening, so these might be words people could overlook. I know that a lot of people get drunk and go walking around at random times of the night, it just happens at events. Stopping it completely would be a hassle but putting guidelines wouldn't.
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re-turn to exam

Postby Satanaka » Tue Jun 27, 2006 9:44 am

After reading Izareth's post- I will add that when I got to troll on Saturday- the two people I dealt with were very nice and completely different from troll on Friday. Thanks Danny.

and Bodmin- I never mentioned anyone's name. But I will add that the wording on the troll token did not make it better.

And to thank Xooyan- because she hit it on the head. It was not that it was the worse event ever- Since I was there for only Friday and returned for Saturday afternoon- I could not honestly say that it was the worse one ever- what I did get was what many other people were saying about their experience all week or when they got there, adding what I saw and looking at the Arm's from the past. It was not ment as an attack on any one person or any 7 people. In the rest of my words- I though I had established that events are hard work and take MANY people to make happen. I appreciate anyone that is willing to help.


I agree with Keg and others about the shennanigans- I am ready for ZERO tolerance. And as Izrath will agree- anyone that is accused of breaking the law should be punished to the max- Right Danny?

I love this game and I love so many people in it. I did not come to Arm to fight- but to visit and see people. I saw many people busting their butts to try to get things done and to make things good for others. To say that I was no impressed- but insulted by troll, though garb was terrible, and as not impressed by the flow of fighting is my opinion- as well as many others. It is not to be branded cause I spoke my opinion- but to maybe point out my own feelings so that maybe we as a group can learn and do better.

If I offeneded anyone- well- it was not ment to offend. I am not very "PC" and don't plan on becoming an * kisser. Like I also said- the actions of one certain person- made up for the bad that I experienced- that person knows who he is- and I salute your dedication, your devotion and your kindness. YOU ARE the type of person that help this game grow.

Does that make any better sense to my new hate fan club?
(just joking on that one)(smile)

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Postby Izareth » Tue Jun 27, 2006 10:56 am

I agree that the law should be abided. What I think is that we have fostered an atmosphere where it is a game to grab items that are on display. I feel that we should define this game and inform people about where it ends and true legal issues begin.

If we are hasty to create zero tolerance, a frame-up job on someone you don't like instead of taking their banner would be very easy.

Or the event coordinators would say, I know you didn't steal that banner that we found in your camp, you don't steal banners. And that wouldn't be zero tolerance.


As far as Troll goes, I was really just wondering what happened. I know that NB discussed at great length how they wanted to have a friendly Troll, and my experience on Thursday morning was very friendly. So I didn't know what happened and thought I would ask.
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Right

Postby Satanaka » Tue Jun 27, 2006 9:37 pm

Yes- I agree Danny- It would not be cool to over react or react to fast or to harshly. As you and many others know- anything we have to call the police on - hurts the whole group.

I guess after having two banners stolen and one damaged- (never fixed- never compensated for) then- I'd rather not play games like that.

the thing about it- is when something does go over the edge or the wrong people get messed with or fed up with things- then it will be very ugly.


BUT- I am gonna hope for the positive and that nothing bad happens. We have some great people in the game.

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Postby Bodmin » Tue Jun 27, 2006 9:43 pm

hey you forgot to tell him what happend at troll
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