Post 'geddon thoughts

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Post 'geddon thoughts

Postby Rube » Mon Jun 19, 2006 7:28 pm

Had a great time, and many thanks to the collection of non-pinkies that organized this event and all of the people who helped out during it.

Fighter training was a great idea, and I was unexpectedly impressed by our mentors' didactic skill. The approach was very helpful, and it got me to start thinking about "why" I was dying/killing rather than just "if."

Personal honor (taking shots) seemed infinitely better than last year's (tourneys aside, but I didn't watch those last year). Along these lines, people were doing a great job of communicating their hit-taking and calling out when they were missing armor. I hope ya'll can say the same for me.

Suggestions for improvement:

1) Formalize a small-group-collection camp area: There is a great deal of open space for small groups to pitch a tent in, and it's nice that privacy is an option even for just one or two people. It would be cool though, if there was an area designated as the place to pitch a tent if you would like to share a camp with people other than those you showed up with/are in your unit. I came on my own and fell into this category. It wouldn't have been hard to drag my tent later on, but it would have been much easier to meet some of the people I eventually met if there had been such a spot.

2) If you do #1, then come up with a better name for it than the two I did: "small-group-collection camp area" or just "Reject Camp".

3) grant troll a circle of protection from jackassery. It's bad enough when people travel 8+ hours to be mocked and given a hard time, but it certainly shouldn't be the *first* thing someone encounters when he/she/it gets out of the car. Not to say that I was verbally roughed up (everyone was very polite to me), but I did see a couple people fall victim to a mean-spirited herd that gathered around troll at one point. This might have just been an isolated incident however, as I didn't hang around too long.

But again, had a great time, and thank ya'll for the company and the fights.

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Postby Troll » Tue Jun 20, 2006 1:16 am

i have no idea what you are talking about in #3.
if anything was yelled at people driving past troll, it consisted of "drive under the speed limit," or "stay out of the women's showers"
both of those seem pretty valid. although other popular ones included "stay in school," and "don't do drugs"
how that is considdered jackassery, i have no idea.
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Postby Plithut » Tue Jun 20, 2006 1:26 am

Are you kidding? I drove 26 hours to be mocked and 'verbally roughed up' Its what makes this game fun.
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Postby xiao » Tue Jun 20, 2006 7:37 am

Hey if anyone drives in from way the **** far away you are more than welcome to camp with -The Slums-. We usually find a nice quite spot away from the shinannigans.
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Postby Winfang » Tue Jun 20, 2006 8:10 am

I have to agree with Rube on this. I was not impressed with Troll this year. The first thing that happened when I got out of my truck was to be yelled at for speeding and I wasn't even driving, Casey was. She never went over 20mph, which is the park speed limit. Then we where scolded to not enter the other gender's shower house. No "Hi and welcome to Armageddon" or "Thanks for coming!" After this was all said and done, we got our tags and I noticed that Casey's said "Suck my *" on it, very classy.

Glad you enjoyed the training class. Hopefully this can be a staple of Armageddons to come.
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Postby Kiran » Tue Jun 20, 2006 10:10 am

I just wanted to add that i enjoyed the training classes as well. Thank you to all the mentors.

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Postby V-Hil » Tue Jun 20, 2006 10:10 am

First with the good:

Classes were great! Well done Bhakdar and Winfang.

Numenor feast was awesome, as per the Diego et al normal.

Horde feast looked good (but, unfortunately was in short supply)

Fighting on Saturday was okay, but too damned hot.

Clean up on Sunday was quick :)

And now for the bad!!!

I personally felt that Armageddon was a flop this year due to the following

Heat:
This was just a killer.

Event tags/Troll

Just because (rhetorical) you think something is fun or funny doesn't mean EVERYONE thinks it is. Insulting units on the name tags (Duruk-Hai) or having "suck my *" on them is just childish and reflects poorly on the organization as whole whether it is in jest or not.

Shennanigans:

The Uruk-Hai banner was stolen numerous times and broken (accidental but still broken) as well as the IC banner. It * many Uruk members off mainly because we didn't want to spend our event protecting or searching for it or hiding it IN OUR OWN CAMP.

The people who were messing with the two Black Company (Darien and Manille) that showed up should have probably been thrown out after the fight. Those guys keep to themselves, yet something always has to happen. I find it funny that the same people from the same groups are doing the same **** every event and nothing happens. One of these days Armageddon will consist of Hellhammer, Brotherhood, EBF and Horde because certain members from all these groups will have run everyone else off.

Lack of general respect of people:

Guys like Bran (love ya man, but **** christ, you need to lay off sometimes) and others (cliquey unit types) like him treating people like **** or having fun at the expense of their ego. Good behavior is something that can be reasonably enforced (and should be). Rowdy people are thrown out of bars and restaurants all the time. Our events should be no different.

Battles: The flow of the battles just blew chunks. Fights took way too long because of the reusable missile juggle and people running away ALL THE TIME. The heralds have the ability to remedy the problem by having a non reusable field after 4-5 minutes of fighting to force the runners away to fight a little sooner.

Unit trials during peak fighting times: Holding trials during peak fighting hours (not all, but one or two) is just stupid. (sarcasm)"I know, let's all go watch one guy fight 9 people for an hour! Brilliant idea!! Let's do it on a Friday or a Saturday during the middle of the day!!!"(/end sarcasm).

Kinda harsh, but I came to fight with my unit and realm, not to fight for team skittles and team oreo cookies. I came to not to be harassed by * or to have friends belittled by those same *. I came not to have stuff stolen from my camp and broken and not to search for those things stolen from my camp.
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Postby Plithut » Tue Jun 20, 2006 11:03 am

V'Hil, I hate to be an * but I didnt see you volunteering to do anything. Elerosse and I were up at weapons check, and Troll nearly everyday helping because the event cordinators were WAY understaffed. The only reason that we were unable to hearld is because the cordinators WOULDNT LET US. Bodhi was the only Uruk that I saw help out at all. Maybe you could have helped a bit to make everything go a little more smooth.


Overall I thought it was a great event. Everyone did a great job doing everything.
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Postby V-Hil » Tue Jun 20, 2006 11:36 am

OMG are you kidding? I didn't mention anything about volunteering. But you don't want to see my resume of event work.

Reread my post and tell me I mentioned something about the lack of volunteering and not about attitudes, respect for others and shenanigans.
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Postby Derian » Tue Jun 20, 2006 11:48 am

V'Hil - I'm sorry that NB's seven member's were unable to run our first weeklong national event up to your standards.
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Postby Elerosse » Tue Jun 20, 2006 11:48 am

Did you ever suggest any of these ideas to event coordinators while you were there? Or herlads while you thought a battle sucked?

Banners get stolen, every event. If something gets broken, it is a mistake, and please note that the banners are NEVER harmed themselves. Those who pull pranks realize the work put into them, and probably enjoy people overracting over a piece fo fabirc. Banners are ALWAYS returned.

I think people need to calm down at events, you should go to relax and have fun.

People are going to be heckled, teach your guys to give **** back. That's how I've survived this game.

I say either try to hep while you're there, or don't * about what those runnign the event did "wrong" when you don't understand the magnitude of **** they had to put up with this event.

Thank you Gorlock and Jesus for being there all week and taking the brunt of all the mishaps this year. Thank you to those few who helped herald and check weapons, and a big thank you to Lady Grey, Davit, and Cyric for doing arrows every day.
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Postby Izareth » Tue Jun 20, 2006 12:16 pm

I would like to apologize for failing to check weapons on Friday morning. I had to send my group for feast food, and go with half the group.

Keeping battle flow when the weather is that hot is very hard. I felt that a concerted effort was made.

Troll was friendly to me, but that's not unusual.

The event tags may have been bad to write stuff on, but I think it was boredom above malice. I imagine a group like NB does that stuff as a joke to enhance the event. I guess it didn't.

I had a great time, the only stress was self imposed in the form of feast.

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Postby Bodhi » Tue Jun 20, 2006 12:31 pm

First off, Elrosse, your remarks regarding v'hil helping at the event is way off base. Everyone from Edhellen and even a few others from numenor put more then their fare share of work into the event. Second, the members in uruk-hai are really sick of getting our stuff stollen and then broken. The reason dark gaurd doesn't have their welded eye out is because someone stole it and then broke it in the process several events ago. The uruk-hai would like to do some really cool things with our campsite but we dont want to put in all the work that it would require only to have things stolen and broken. Would you like it if i came into your house, took a bunch of ****, broke it and then returned it to you and just said, "well, **** happens". Next, we did drop the ball on some things during the event. There is no reason we should be upset that they are being pointed out. Do we have excuses? yeah, we do on some, but on others we just simply didn't succeed. We can either * about us not having enough people or not having enough experience or we can be like hey, these things obviously dont work to well when done like this or that. How can we make things better?

Point of this: Dont jump on people who are just simply adding important things to this discussion that you dont want to hear. This event overall sucked and it can be done better. I'll post a few ideas later on how I think it could be improved.
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Postby V-Hil » Tue Jun 20, 2006 12:39 pm

Thanks for the support Bodhi!!! Gangsta 4 life, yo!

Overreacting about a piece of fabric? How about I take your armor and break the arm off of it. "Oh, you're overreacting about a piece of hide." I'll tell you what, go steal my truck to get a rise out of me and then bring it back, telling me you're just kidding. It is the same concept.

Relax and have fun? My version of having fun is relaxing in my camp, drinking a beer and swordfighting, not chasing some **** who stole my banner or listening to some * berate someone.

Teach my guys to give **** back? Why not learn some **** manners and show some **** respect? I am sorry that "my" guys show respect towards people they don't know.

If you don't help, don't *? I think I have earned the right to * (i helped plenty at the event). Look to the successful events of the past and learn from them, not travel back in time to **** we did 6 years ago. Use people's motivation for playing this game to get their asses to the field. Realm battles, unit battles and battles based off of those teams.

Derian-The seven NB members had a LOT of support (except from me because I apparently didn't do ****). They were just in charge of getting people to do stuff (like the feasts and the bardic games) and ran the battles everyday.

I realize that this is a learning experience for them so let them learn from my comments.

Armageddon is supposed to be the be all/end all of events and just ended up being a weeklong Numenor size practice (except on Friday and Saturday). That isn't anyone's fault. But this is our premiere event and we can't even get our Western Brethren to come out anymore because * didn't make them feel welcome. Something is wrong and I think I touched upon the key ones: attitude and respect towards others.
Last edited by V-Hil on Tue Jun 20, 2006 1:18 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Postby Winfang » Tue Jun 20, 2006 12:42 pm

Vhil has many valid points. Instead of reading it as Vhil just being an *, look at what he's really saying. Vhil isn't attacking you, he's pointing out the areas where the event failed and areas that need improvement. There isn't much in his post that I don't agree with.
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Postby Romuinus » Tue Jun 20, 2006 1:07 pm

I will say this I had a great time. If I could have controled the temp. of the world that week I would have to fight longer and sleep better. It was like 90 in the day and 45 to 50 at night. Also The NB guys who ran the event had promises from people that just didn't show up. Jesus, Gorlock, Troll, Numenor, Ahki, and all the people who hung out fought and had fun, thanks for the good time. The event could have been better but when things like people using the wrong gender shower happens on the first night thereand were threatened with being kicked out by the middle of the week it would have suked much more.

Once again mny thanks to those who worked hard to try and make this event rock.
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Postby Od1n » Tue Jun 20, 2006 1:22 pm

V-Hil wrote:Armageddon is supposed to be the be all/end all of events and just ended up being a weeklong Numenor size practice (except on Friday and Saturday). That isn't anyone's fault. But this is our premiere event and we can't even get our Western Brethren to come out anymore because * didn't make them feel welcome. Something is wrong and I think I touched upon the key ones: attitude and respect towards others.


I'll have to agree with V'hill on attitude and respect. I didn't come out to Geddon this year because it was scheduled over my finals, and because of **** attitudes. I might try to go out next year, and will probably attend Okfest.

With that said, I'd like to say that any and all Easterners that come out to Chaos Wars this year will be treated with respect and are welcome to come and hang out with me and all the Gelfs out here and have a good time, because isn't that what the sport is all about?

That's **** that your banner actually got damaged, and that shouldn't have happened. I myself get something stolen at least every event be it a cup, sword or my shoelaces. I eventually get them back but it does suck, but I see it as part of the game, and I steal out of revenge. I'm all for shennanigans at events, but if something gets broken or ruined on purpose that kind of crosses the line and kills the fun factor.
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Postby Izareth » Tue Jun 20, 2006 1:33 pm

How can we fix these problems? I volunteer to bridge the gap if I can. I put forward the idea of rules for shennanigans. They can be wide and expansive, but they might go a long way toward keeping people's feelings from being hurt.

Also, a lot of people insult each other and people in the group. We all need to keep in mind the feelings of new people. Let's fix this.
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Postby div » Tue Jun 20, 2006 1:55 pm

I thought for what we had to work with, the event was as good as Geddon V could be. There were some snags, but nothing really major that people have to vent their anger via keyboards. I would like to promote more constructive criticism (like Izzy suggested) than offensive and defensive remarks.

V'Hil does have some valid points: I'll take blame for a lot of the ludeness on the event tokens. It was meant to be funny, but I understand that some people have different preferences in humor. I've learned my lesson as have other participants in the token decoration. That's all right, let's move on.

I agree that Troll as a welcoming point could have been more friendly and less abrasive in their attempt to stay within park regulations.

Shennanigans did get out of hand. I'm sorry for any damaged property or foul moods because of inappropriate or overplayed jokes.

Thank you to people who helped with anything and even those who were just there to fight. The event took a lot out of everyone. Elerosse and Plithut, you guys were great volunteers and I really appreciate all of your help (especially) after a 24+ hour drive.

I don't agree with Bodhi when he says this event overall sucked. It did not. As long as I see people smiling and having fun, I consider the event to have been a success, minor as it may have been.

That's my piece.
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Postby Winfang » Tue Jun 20, 2006 2:11 pm

Well Vhil has started a list.

-Troll
Whoever is in charge of Troll needs to let people know that they need to greet people, not scold them like children. Maybe people should take a tip from the Greeters at Walmart. Act like adults and treat others as such. No slandering units or yelling at people. If someone is speeding, get the event coordinator to talk to them and refrain from yelling at them. People need to remember that Troll is the first thing people see when entering an event and can they can set the tone for the event.

-Shennanigans
They need to stop, plain and simple. It's one thing to play a joke on your friend, it's another thing to do it to people you don't even know or barely know. People need to quit acting like children and grow up, this isn't acceptable behavior. The event coordinator should publish a set of rules, i.e. No Stealing from camps, and the punishment for breaking them, i.e. Stealing will result is removal from the event with no refund.

-Battles
Vhil sugguested no re-useables after 5 minutes and that a good one. Also, the marshals should try to organize teams by meaningful divisions, i.e. units or realms. People want to fight with their friends. Also scheduling battle times so people know when to be at the field and when they can schedule their trials or ceromonies.

-Camping
Actually have groups claim certain areas. BOF and EBF always camp in the same location, same with Darkguard. Is this true with the other groups?
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Postby Troll » Tue Jun 20, 2006 2:22 pm

i was running troll, and early on, a few thing were made clear to me. since the thing on sunday about the dude in the women's showers, we decided that large infractions should not be tollerated. i'm sorry if it came off as being very abbrasive, but we wanted to make it very clear that there couldn't be any problems with park officials. as far as derogatory terms on event tokens, i had no part in that. the normal tokens were pretty bland, so some people decided to spice them up a little bit. that obviously got out of hand. i'm sorry i didn't catch that in time so that you had to deal with offensive terms on your tokens.

as far as heralding goes, us iowa guys are still relatively inexperienced with large-scale heralding. it would be nice if there was a part of a class at some point dealing with how to be a good herald. I heralded quite a bit, and i thought i did a decent job of it. battle sizes might not have been ideal, but it was very very hot, and there were classes going on.

overall, i think we did a decent job considdering what we had to work with. it is good to hear criticism, but the criticism should stick to things that could be improved in future events, not things that just plain went wrong.
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Postby Kegg » Tue Jun 20, 2006 2:49 pm

Plithut wrote:V'Hil, I hate to be an * but I didnt see you volunteering to do anything. Elerosse and I were up at weapons check, and Troll nearly everyday helping because the event cordinators were WAY understaffed. The only reason that we were unable to hearld is because the cordinators WOULDNT LET US. Bodhi was the only Uruk that I saw help out at all. Maybe you could have helped a bit to make everything go a little more smooth.


Plithnut, you are being an * and obviously have little clue as to the true work that is involved in running an event.

Vhil, Argoth, Soth and Piper started setting up for the event the Thursday before Armageddon. Galin and I were out there all day Saturday.

Things Vhil (and other Numenoreans) did for the event
-Painted the castle for 3 days (20+ hours) Monday-Wednesday the week before the event.
-Hauled all the chunked wood for the fires.
-Loaded all Numenor's stuff that was used.
.Coolers
.Propane
.Generators
.GP Large Tent
.etc...
-Set up the castle at the park (12+ hours) (Friday, Saturday, Sunday)
-Hauled and filled the waterbuffalo.
-Transported and loaded the hay bales used for the event.
-Cleaned up a big part of the horde feast mess (cleaning the cooker) and area around where the feast was made.
-Hauled garbage from all over the campsites to the dumpsters.
-Was part of the last group to leave the park.
-Took down the castle and re-stored it for the next event.

In all I would expect that V'hil put as much or more work into this event than pretty much anyone else. At least 80 hours of hard physical labor (not just sitting around at troll).

I believe you owe Vhil an apology.
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Postby Winfang » Tue Jun 20, 2006 2:50 pm

Here are the site rules for Pennsic.

http://www.pennsicwar.org/penn35/GENERAL/siterules.html

While we should have something similar, we also need ENFORCEMENT of them as well.
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Postby Cyric » Tue Jun 20, 2006 2:53 pm

As for the inexperience, that was my biggest complaint. If you needed help, ask! there were lots of people that were capable of stepping in to help herald. I don't think i saw a herald who wasn't Diego or Killian call a shot on someone all week.

Running a field and checking weapons are two of the biggest challenges of running events, but it looked like amateur night at weapon check. i saw all kinds of weapons getting passed by people who didn't look like they knew what was going on. i saw at least one weapon pass that should have failed, but i was too busy doing arrow check and no one heard me telling them to re-check it. thankfully, no one got hurt.

My point: There are lots of experienced people who would be willing to step in and help, or better yet teach others how to do a job properly. Next year we are going to have a more set schedule of who is doing what when, and hopefully that will solve the problem.
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Postby Kegg » Tue Jun 20, 2006 3:08 pm

Elerosse wrote:Did you ever suggest any of these ideas to event coordinators while you were there? Or herlads while you thought a battle sucked?

Banners get stolen, every event. If something gets broken, it is a mistake, and please note that the banners are NEVER harmed themselves. Those who pull pranks realize the work put into them, and probably enjoy people overracting over a piece fo fabirc. Banners are ALWAYS returned.

I think people need to calm down at events, you should go to relax and have fun.

People are going to be heckled, teach your guys to give **** back. That's how I've survived this game.

I say either try to hep while you're there, or don't * about what those runnign the event did "wrong" when you don't understand the magnitude of **** they had to put up with this event.


Banners SHOULD NOT be stolen at every event. They are not yours, they are the personal property of other people and should not be ****** with.

Banners are NOT always returned. Over the years a great number of items "shenaniganed" are destroyed or lost. See the above paragraph about personal property. Don't mess with others peoples stuff. Most people learn this lesson in kindergarten.

The magnitude of ****?! I, Galin and V'hil spent a great deal of time dealing with the park authorities over misbehavior of Belegarth members at this event. Trust us that in the 25+ events Numenor has hosted that perhaps we have some clue as to the "magnitude" of **** that can happen.

I greatly appreciate the amount of work that was done by the Iowa folks who ran the event but there were indeed problems. The only way they can be addressed is by discussing them.
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Postby Rube » Tue Jun 20, 2006 3:08 pm

Yeah, I should mention my main beef with Arm even if I don't think there is much chance of fixing it:

Specifically that the event is held during the quarter system's finals week. To my knowledge, a little over half of the higher education institutions in CA are on the quarter system. Most of my realm resultantly couldn't attend even if they could afford the trip out there. I had to convince my profs to let me take a final the day I got back, and barely succeeded.

I know that there has been a fair bit of speculation about this already, but timing is a serious barrier to getting us far-westerners out to Arm. I suggest consideration whether moving the event to the week after Rag might be appropriate/possible (though I haven't yet read the backlog of discussion on these boards, so forgive me if this or similar ideas were already brought up and nixed).

Of course, distance is a pretty serious barrier as well. Chaos Wars might remain the only event that people West of the Rockies can attend for this reason as much as any other.

There is definitely a lot of negativity slung around at these events (right along with the comraderie, don't get me wrong). Apart from saying "this should be a better world" I'm not sure what can be done about this though, as there is no way to legislate respect for other people. The best suggestion I have is just to make sure that when people check in at troll, there is an effort made to make them feel welcome. I.e. communications contain the following ideas:

Welcome, thanks for coming, you can sign in here, the park rangers are upset about some early law violations, so don't break any of the camp laws... 20 MPH speed limit, gender-specific bathrooms, quiet after 11 PM etc. Feel free to set up camp with your unit, realm, or in any of the open-camping spots. If you would like to have a group camp but didn't come with anyone then "Reject camp (insert better name)" is over there.

For extra credit points one could ask the person's name, where they came from, and if they'd like to/are trained enough to volunteer for any aspect of helping out (heralding, weapons check, feast prep, slave auction... though I recognize that it is often hard to track people down later... heck, I signed up for the slave auction and then chickened out later when I saw how the slaves were being heckeled for trying to get the sport a bit more cash (sorry event planners!!)).

Another thing that would be nice is some kind of codification of the rules for the Assassins tourney (in their final form, printed out, at troll, not just online as a collection of ideas), and a sign up at troll on the way in. If said codification existed this year, then someone who will call attention to the rules so that those of us who haven't been coming for many years on end can participate would be nice.

Jesus checked me in and, aside from the bit about assassins tourney rules, he hit every point I mentioned and all of the extra credit bits... though again, hanging around troll later I realized that this wasn't as universal as it could have been.

I still had a good time and enjoyed the event, and hopefully this comes off sounding as constructive as it should.
Last edited by Rube on Tue Jun 20, 2006 3:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Cyric » Tue Jun 20, 2006 3:16 pm

Just FYI, i set up a forum on the wolfpack board for discussions about geddon 6, which we are running in conjunction with Rhun. Feel free to add any input about next year's event there, but keep the * to a minimum, please.

Among the topics we are already thinking about-

Western Involvment
Troll Improvements
Night Life

http://www.wolfpackonline.org/forum
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Postby Mekoot Gorlock » Tue Jun 20, 2006 3:29 pm

For the assasin tourny rules you need to talk to who ever is running the tourny that year because they change all the time.

As for the battles that were run early in the week we couldn't have divided teams by realm or unit becuase there wern't enough people there. On friday and saterday we stoped running unit and realm battles due to hit taking and people getting mad at eachother. I know that in the last realm battle I had to call 10-15 people dead for not taking their hits and I know that there were more but I couldn't follow everyone around at one time. After these fights on saterday we were going to go into realm and unit divided teams but everyone left the field because it was so hot so we called fighting untyle it cooled down. I wasn't on teh field when fighting started again because I was bouncing between helping with feast and paying people back for feasts and the like from earlyer in the week.

Thank you all for your criticism but keep in mind that NB didn't want to have anything to do with running this event, so for not wanting to do it the event turned out decent.
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Postby Assyria » Tue Jun 20, 2006 3:30 pm

In reply to Rube about Troll:

Myself and another wolfpack Veteran are going to be in charge of troll. We will be meeting relatively soon to start getting some ideas up and running, to make troll run a little more smoothly(and politely). We will have a well scripted check in procedure. It might be a little longer, but hopefully it will cover all of the main information in a friendly manner instead of being berated and scolding.

I was checked in by Jesus as well, before any of the problems started to occur, and he was really helpful. however, I had to leave site and returned wearing Mundane clothing. Driving up I was going 10 MPH and was yelled at to slow down(which i did), they however, did not stop me to see if I belonged at the event, which i see as a problem. There were a group of people socializing, but not (to my knowledge) doing anything at the time.
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Postby bo1 » Tue Jun 20, 2006 3:32 pm

i had a really big post on what went wrong and what i will do to fix it. it is lost to the computer gods for reasons i can't explain. now the short version.
1 a big thanks to everybody that helped run the event this year.
2 thanks to everybody that fought in 90+ temps this year.
3 I tried my best to help everybody i could in whatever capacity i could.
4 Rhun is running the event next year. I want it to rock so much * that it is talked about for 10 years. So lets go with it then


Feasts- most important things first
were good dispite some complications. Izzy was never given any numbers so he came up alittle short. Rule #1 in my house " Don't show up last in the food line, you might go hungry". Lots of people got food some stragglers didn't. that happens. He did do a great job of planning everything and it came off well even if a little short.

troll-
Sets the mood for the event. Shoudl be much more than a tent. I think i will put a small castlesk structure there to welcome people. Freindly people will be there with a booklet on all the games and where and when everything is at. Also a map and lots of useful info. There was a great lack of info at troll/event. Poepleneed to know more than someone yelling unitelligably from down the way.

Shannanigins-
are great when done correctly. Having items and flags donated from troll to the camps. When these items are returned to Troll points are awarded, then the item is returned. This way the game doesn't involve personal property. The items will be displayed in camp away from personal property, as to not cause any confusion. It will be well explained that no one is to take personal property, if they do authorities will be called. Trophy to follow the week.

battles-
they did stagnate a bit, but it was really hot.
All barrels and knighting stuff should take place in the mornings or after 6 pm, so it doesn't take away from the battles. The heralds were on the field too long, i could tell they were tired of it and it was obvious that they didn't want to do it anymore. Changing up the fights is what keeps it going.
i want more 4 corners battles and attack/defend games.
preferences got old after a while so changing it up would have been a good idea. I brought a tower and i don't think ti was used once.

camping-
in the booklet there will be a list and map of who is camping where. also in the booklet will be if any camps are having a open party that night or not. A shedule of night life will also be added. The groups of campers will have a little sign if the would like people to hail and meet know poeple to the event. It is a little strange to try to meet new poeple, lets make it as inviting as possible. The best inviters will get and event prize.

Over all the event for me was less than what i expected. I think with some of the additions i added here it would be much better. I plan to have a total saturday castle assault with line battles. Friday lots of realm/unit stuff. thurday lots of individual small group stuff.
Last edited by bo1 on Tue Jun 20, 2006 3:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Izareth » Tue Jun 20, 2006 3:42 pm

I worked with both the NB event staff, and the Numinorian event staff. Both groups were gracious, happy-to-help, and responsible.

I don't think either group is blameworthy. I think that NB was disorgainzed on a lot of things, but worked and worried hard. I also think that Numinor did a lot of behind-the scenes-work, and a lot of people didn't look behind the scenes.

We should shrug the insults off and start talking about how to work together in the future.
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Postby Izareth » Tue Jun 20, 2006 3:52 pm

Bo, after reading your posts I'd like to talk to you about helping you to achieve some tof these things. Let's keep in touch.

V-HIL: I'm sorry damage came to your banner. And thanks for helping with the feast cleanup. We hit it before dark that night, and I appreciata all heplp in the subsequent cleanup from you.

The same goes for all of the Workers on Sunday. I only wish Lo'Bo, Nasgar, and I hadn't been the only help Dur-Demarion could offer.
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Postby xiao » Tue Jun 20, 2006 4:02 pm

Izareth wrote:I worked with both the NB event staff, and the Numinorian event staff. Both groups were gracious, happy-to-help, and responsible.

I don't think either group is blameworthy. I think that NB was disorgainzed on a lot of things, but worked and worried hard. I also think that Numinor did a lot of behind-the scenes-work, and a lot of people didn't look behind the scenes.

We should shrug the insults off and start talking about how to work together in the future.


Way to get moving forward Izzy. We have a great list of problems and solutions building here. It's going to be up to US to make sure everyone goes forward with these suggestions. Rhun and Wolfpack working together is going to create an AMAZING event and I really looking forward to it. I attended the Rhun mini event and i was shocked by how well they hosted everyone. Teaching younger realms to host events might be something for the bigger, older realms to think about.
If 7 NB'rs didn't want to run an event but did anyway its only natural that **** will go wrong. We're a bunch of kids playing in the woods!!
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Postby Ju'Dekei » Tue Jun 20, 2006 4:10 pm

Xiao I think you are exactly right. Between the coordination of the event getting passed around and a lack of pre-reg there were a lot of circumstances outside of anyone's control that made preparation for this event difficult. It makes no sense to dwell on what went wrong at this point. We've identified what needs improvement and the best we can do is work together to ensure the future events are 100%.

I would like to thank everyone who assisted in any capacity again. There was a lot of work that went into this event and I appreciate everything.
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Postby bo1 » Tue Jun 20, 2006 5:22 pm

i have read everything hear and will continue. The problems that occured listed here will not be repeated by me, my realm, my unit or the great realm of wolfpack at Arm VI

Problem solving 101:
1 Clearly identify the problem(s).
2 Take actions to stop the problems
3 Performance review, focusing on what went right and wrong
4 Start at 1 again

Using this we can make Arm VI great.

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May wiseness be in my future.
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Postby Ohtar » Tue Jun 20, 2006 5:41 pm

Well first and foremost thanks to all that ran the event. I only made it for saturday, and left that same night around 11pm.

My only complaint that can be put on anyone was that my token had a picture of a *, and balls drawn on it, they said they had been saving it for someone like me. If i wasn't a *, but maybe a born-agin christian, or a nomal concervative person i might have been offended. Thats my only complaint which has already been posted.

I liked seeing a bunch of kids at this event. There was a pretty big pack of the wild creatures, several of them even had mini-shields, and such... I Loved it.

I personally didn't have any problem with hit taking or the heralds, but i only got to do about 10 large field battles before the break was called. I really enjoyed the pick up battles, donated some water for general fighter use, and asked the herald if he wanted to fight or take a break, and that i would herald. He declined. So as far as i've seen the heralds did a fine job.

The Shannanigins have long been a problem. My unit has had our camped messed with at almost every event in the last 3 years. Other units that have had a big problem with people that come to mind are black company, and Dark Guard. I was there when the Dark Guard's weilded metal eye was found broken, and covered in toilet paper. Britany wasn't happy. Despite all efforts, and threats to try to stop this behavior it continues. Personnally I think kiddie's need to grow up before some one catches them and gives them an adult lesson.

That being said Sir Daemarth had made a sugestion a few years ago that never came into fruition. Perhaps we can take all this negative energy, and turn it into a game. Similar to the assasins turney. Like a week long capture the flag with points for taking differnt flags. We would use "GAME FLAGS" that cost nothing and don't matter if they are damaged. A group of 5-10 can get a numbered flag. They must keep it out in the open at all times, and can guard, and fight for other flags with in bels fighting rules. Maybe all the Theif has to do is take the banner to troll for the point. Which ever 5-10 man group get the most points wins a prize, and the team that loses their flag the least gets a prize. This might not do anything, but it might help keep them preoccupied.
Not trying to be critical just my thoughts.

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Postby Dr. Kazi » Tue Jun 20, 2006 5:49 pm

I remember so clearly after Arm 4 NB sitting down and saying almost EXACTLY what has been suggested for improvements here. There are tons of reasons it didn't work, but I won't list them because I don't really believe in excuses. All I can say is good luck with next year, I hope 'pack and Rhun manage to fix everything you've pointed out, and they have a much better chance of doing it than we did.
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Postby Kenneth » Tue Jun 20, 2006 6:37 pm

Post deleted until I have time to revise my thoughts and remove the insults.

I'd like to add that V'hil did an incredible amount, and was one of the people there at the bitter end, throwing out disgusting trash bags.

Shenanigans need to stop. I remember being up at 7am a few events ago scrubbing the castle walls with gasoline and hay for several hours to get the butter off the walls. Breaking peoples stuff is NOT COOL.


I'm going to end on this thought:

I thanked Izareth for staying and helping clean up Arm. He had no real "stake" in the event, but there he was, doing the nastiest jobs. His reason for helping out? "Arm is everybody's event."
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Postby Akalis » Tue Jun 20, 2006 6:54 pm

V-Hil, you want to talk about people being rude and disrespectful, you should look at your own guys before pointing your finger at others. Tuesday night your guys came to HH camp accusing them of taking the IC flag when it wasn't even taken by HH. Wednesday night one of your guys threatened to punch Troll(theperson) in the face. And at SW one of your guys threatend to rape one of the girls from Wolfpack, and then at Geddon try to start a fight with Fox and made fun of a handfull of Wolfpack members, and then he threatened Anahita. So don't go off on a rant about other people until you get your units attitude cleaned up.

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Postby V-Hil » Tue Jun 20, 2006 7:34 pm

Wow Akalis, those are some big accusations. Rape??? I am positive it was taken out of context. If it is true, then it should be addressed. If she felt truly threatened and if the people involved felt truly threatened, then the authorities should have been called.

He said this, she said that :roll: Are we in Jr. High? I never claimed a few individuals didn't have their own faults, but they aren't unit wide either. Your argument is moot about me "worrying" about my own group. I am looking out for the welfare of everyone, not just my gang.

Historically, a few members of HH and Horde have been notorious in taking our stuff. Wow, they made a mistake by going to a group who takes it regularly.

As for Troll, perhaps he said something to provoke the threat. Lots of people run their mouths in this game and think that being a part of a unit (read gang) will help them. I am willing to be he ran his mouth and was called on it. But maybe not. Maybe everyone was drunk and remember it being bigger than what it really was. Maybe not. Maybe the Uruk was being an *. Maybe not. Maybe Troll was being an *. Maybe not. We'll never get the whole story. Just like the threat of rape. Two sides to every story, pal. Hell, I wanted to punch Dante in the face on Saturday for threatening a fellow Belegarth fighter. He'll tell you a different story.

Anyway, be careful about what you say. You're bound to get some innocent people in trouble by throwing the "rape" word around and the last thing this sport needs is something like that. Tell a realm rep and have them talk to the appropriate people. But keep that crap off these boards.
Last edited by V-Hil on Tue Jun 20, 2006 7:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Winfang » Tue Jun 20, 2006 7:36 pm

Akalis, if you want to attack another group then do it through email or in person. Keep this thread on the topic.
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Postby Dr. Kazi » Tue Jun 20, 2006 7:47 pm

Agreed. It is hard enough to keep a thread like this from becoming a flame war.
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Postby Akalis » Tue Jun 20, 2006 9:25 pm

I'm sorry, you're right, this isn't the right place for this conversation, I got caught up in the moment, I apolagize. The nagitive comments just kinda got to me because I know the NB guys did the best that they could. And again I'm sorry for the touchy subject I brought up.

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Postby Lord Onyx » Tue Jun 20, 2006 9:41 pm

For my part I was only there Saturday AM on.. I had no idea Bran or anyone else in the EBF was verbally attacking anyone and this is the first I have heard of it at this event.

For the record I have personally had sashes, armor, weapons, banners, generators, wallets, glasses, and even a tire stolen,broken or vandilized at events over the years. Hence one of my MAIN reasons for staying at hotels..

As far as being insulted OMG.. Not many ALIVE can say they have had more insults flung at them than myself and my brothers the Elite Blood Chickens.. or Plasma Pigeons.. no it was those F'ing rhinohinding cheat'ars...

I believe that Vhil and others are correct that this is something that EVERYONE is doing for fun. **** talking is ok on the field IMHO and throwing the occasional bread roll in jest around the camp fire I thought brought leavity to the situation however insulting someone to the point of tears or fist throwing is wrong and should be punished.

It is my intention that Equinox will be highly monitored to the point that I am considering hiring contracted security to monitor troll as well as eject and possible hold for the authorities those caught stealing, vandilizing or otherwise getting out of hand (ie dropping a stick of dynamite in the lake...). These sport should be as fun for all as possible and it take just a very few to * it up for the masses...
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Postby Oracle » Tue Jun 20, 2006 10:29 pm

V-Hil wrote:

The people who were messing with the two Black Company (Darien and Manille) that showed up should have probably been thrown out after the fight. Those guys keep to themselves, yet something always has to happen. I find it funny that the same people from the same groups are doing the same **** every event and nothing happens. One of these days Armageddon will consist of Hellhammer, Brotherhood, EBF and Horde because certain members from all these groups will have run everyone else off.



Fights took way too long because of the reusable missile juggle and people running away ALL THE TIME.

Unit trials during peak fighting times: Holding trials during peak fighting hours (not all, but one or two) is just stupid. (sarcasm)"I know, let's all go watch one guy fight 9 people for an hour! Brilliant idea!! Let's do it on a Friday or a Saturday during the middle of the day!!!"(/end sarcasm).



Point A. The person involved in the fist fight with the two BC guys is not in any of the units listed. And as far as it goes there was a suprizing lack of "pooing" on others copared to events past the only time I was mean towards people was when I was tired and cranky from being in the sun.

Point B. As far as the reusable missle weapn juggle there was a suprizing lack of it this event compared to others.

Point C. I couldnt agree with you more but due to the way our planet orbits around the sun, feast times, and unit/kindom/knight's time tables this wont end any time in the near future

All in all I think this was a fine event and the people who helped are saints and the people running it did a fine job even though there was a bit of a lack of experiance in doing so. This was a fine event and next year it'll be even better.
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Postby Theros the Large » Tue Jun 20, 2006 10:37 pm

Anyone who has comments or concerns about Armageddon next year is more than welcome to post comments on the Armageddon 6 forum on the Wolfpack board.

Bo and I are heading up the coordination and we have a whole mess of great people plotting and planning for next year.

There are a lot of things about Armageddon that we can make better, so lets start brainstorming folks!

http://www.wolfpackonline.org

I want to thank all of the people who gave up sleep, fighting time and sweat to pull of this years Geddon.

I know how thankless and crappy event running can be.

I do like the idea about the "Banner game" to give the pranksters some kind of mostly harmless outlet for thier obsession.
Last edited by Theros the Large on Tue Jun 20, 2006 10:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Zzyzx » Tue Jun 20, 2006 10:39 pm

Belegarth had a lot to overcome this event. I can't speak for the other groups but I'd like to address the issues that specifically relate to the Horde.

HORDE SATURDAY FEAST: I apologize that not everyone got to eat. I think the main issue was not knowing how many people to order for and lack of portion control (the feast was pretty much self-serve). Since not everyone arrived at once, people were able to have seconds before people had firsts. This was our first outdoor feast.

What was the final number to attend at Geddon? 250? We ordered a 120 lb pig. If there was 250-ish people, we know moving forward to order more than a half-pound of meat per person. Good info to know. Someone roasted a pig last Geddon (was it Numenor?) - when the Dead River Horde guys got there there was also no pig left. We arrived late, our fault. It happens.

I feel good about the quality of the feast and about the effort of everyone who worked to put it together, and feel that we will take what we learned this event to make feasts even better in the future.

URUK-HAI BANNER
: Even though he had nothing to do with it even being stolen/broken, Izareth took responsibility for it because a couple of Horde guys were involved (they were not even the ones who broke it). V-Hil and Iz talked about this and came to a resolution, I thought this was a non-issue.

V-Hil, you make good points about what should be done in the future. I agree that we should make and enforce shenanigan rules so people will not be afraid to make new things to bring out to events in fear of having them destroyed/stolen.

Horde, like some other groups in the game, has been busting our asses for the past few events. We set up the Katz Game/Dur-De Opener weekend in April (1 grill-out feast), just ran Beltaine in May (3 feasts), and stepped up to volunteer with a feast at Geddon in June and ended up getting the main feast on Saturday because no one else volunteered for it. Honestly I feel like we've given a lot back to the game and are ready to take a break from working for events. We look forward to enjoying the fighting and nightlife again.

Apologies have been said, responsibility has been taken. I'd like to not dwell on the negatives, talk about what needs to be done to make things better in the future, and get back to enjoying the game.
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Postby Big King Jimmy » Tue Jun 20, 2006 11:50 pm

Unfortunatly, it just so happens that when Dunharrow ran 'Geddon last year, I was taking a break from the sport.

Is there any kind of coaching given to groups who run week long events for the first time? I mean, most of it is pretty obvious, Troll is check in, people need to be fed, and so forth, but it's gotta be more complicated than it looks. What sort of things are done to help prep a group for this kind of thing?
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Postby Vokor » Tue Jun 20, 2006 11:51 pm

Lord Onyx wrote:As far as being insulted OMG.. Not many ALIVE can say they have had more insults flung at them than myself and my brothers the Elite Blood Chickens.. or Plasma Pigeons.. no it was those F'ing rhinohinding cheat'ars...

Wait you forgot Elderly Belegath Fighters... just kidding but man you got to love the fact that they take **** in stride, as should some others.

I got there saturday morning and was asked a ton of times " why did you drive so far for one day?" Simple, to see people that I have meet over the past two years and meet new people that I hope to get to know better. Oh yea and HIT PEOPLE WITH FOAM.

I felt very welcome when I showed up. I know I told a lot of people that I could not make it, but was able to come. My kids had a blast, I had a blast. The only person I blame is Winfang for the hot days!! * you fang you and your heat!!!

the saying goes "best layed plans can still go a stray"

I look forward to see more of you crazy people at the next event.




















To those that ran the event thank you for you time, and hard work. to those behind the sceens thank you for all that you did.
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Postby Sonus » Wed Jun 21, 2006 12:27 am

The people who were messing with the two Black Company (Darien and Manille) that showed up should have probably been thrown out after the fight. Those guys keep to themselves, yet something always has to happen. I find it funny that the same people from the same groups are doing the same **** every event and nothing happens. One of these days Armageddon will consist of Hellhammer, Brotherhood, EBF and Horde because certain members from all these groups will have run everyone else off.


My tent was about 40-45 feet away from their camp, the people in the camp were having extremely loud sex. I'm not trying to sound like a square, because we all know how cool I am, but it was rediculous. If you want to have obnoxiously loud sex then get a * hotel room or figure something out that won't keep people from sleeping. You'd think that after getting their tent dropped that they would, ya know....stop. But no, so it happend again. I don't really know what happend until I heard a scuffle and I don't think anyone besides the people who were actually involved in the fight know what really happened. You can't really pin someone with the blame for this, they instigated it by being rude and the other people involved made a bad decision by dropping their tent and * the occupants off.

As for the attack on Brotherhood, your totally wrong. From what I've seen and heard, our guys have really been good with keeping our heckling to a fun and joking manner.

Anyways, let's try to fix these problems in a reasonable manner and see if we can make next Geddon' kick enough * to make us forget about the problems...
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