What dates for ArmVI are best?

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What date for ArmVI would be best?

Poll ended at Thu Aug 10, 2006 10:28 am

May 28 thru June 2 2007
12
22%
June 11 thru June 17 2007
13
24%
July 9 thru July 15 2007
30
55%
 
Total votes : 55

What dates for ArmVI are best?

Postby bo1 » Tue Jul 11, 2006 10:28 am

We are trying to pick dates for ArmVI, we thought that a poll was the best way to go so that no one person can take over the topic.

also admin can you sticky this please and thank you.
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Postby Sir Cairbre » Tue Jul 11, 2006 10:56 am

Defiiniatly the later the better in this case. It would be good to have a date down before November of 06 so everyone can be ready for the best week of fighting.
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Postby Big King Jimmy » Wed Jul 12, 2006 11:38 am

If you put arm, down south, in the middle of frickin July, I will most assurdly miss it.

I'm sorry, a week out in the middle of the hottest month of the year is just not my idea of fun. June was bad enough this year.

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Postby Ricket » Wed Jul 12, 2006 12:24 pm

Ok, so you will have the option to go but will miss is because it's too hot. Too bad. If it doesn't get moved I won't have the option to go at all, ever again. Not to mention that the early dates exclude most people that work at or attend a high school. I hope the dates get changed. I'm glad we are at least discussing it but I don't think the heat should be a deciding factor. Attendance is the number one issue.
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Postby Cyric » Wed Jul 12, 2006 12:48 pm

Yeah, it's going to be hot either way. We are planning to have other stuff besides fighting going on during the hottest part of the day.

These 3 dates aren't the only ones either. if people have alternate suggestions, feel free to post them and we'll take them under consideration as well.
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Postby Borric » Wed Jul 12, 2006 12:57 pm

Personally. I think it would be a mistake to go after the 4th of July holiday. People would already been given time of for work, have made their holiday travel plans (if applicable), and it seems unlikely that more time off could be arranged.
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Postby Xooyan » Wed Jul 12, 2006 1:02 pm

I'd be a fan of holding it during the 4th of July week. What else says patriotism like smacking your fellow Americans with foam?
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Postby Sofie » Wed Jul 12, 2006 1:36 pm

The average temperature in the last decade has had no more than a 5 degree difference between June and July in Illinois. Case in point, here we are in the middle of July and the temperature is 10 degrees cooler than it was the week of Geddon. Making temperature THE deciding factor is unwarranted, especially since it virtually rains at all of our events anyway.

Moving the event to July has several benefits. These include but are not limited to:

-allowing students, a large portion of our demographic, a better chance at attending (and teachers as well). The usual June date has often conflicted with many schools' finals.

- having a nice spread between events. It seems that events are now clustered to the spring and fall, with nothing in the month of July. Geddon is over now, Summerwar is no longer being held, and it's a long way until Equinox and Octoberfest. I'm thirsty for an event!

-allowing for rest, recouperation, and most of all, refunding. A longer break between Beltaine and Geddon allows for time inbetween asking for vacation time again. (Dare I say, those that choose between Geddon and Rag can now have a better chance to go to both).


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Postby Lynard » Wed Jul 12, 2006 5:41 pm

Yeah, July has highs of humidity 90-100%. It gets hot. But not like cooking hot. More like sicky hot, and it feels like you always in sweating.

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Postby Ju'Dekei » Wed Jul 12, 2006 6:26 pm

Savage wrote:i think borric makes one of the best points in the thread... having this event one week after the 4th will really challenge attencance....

who wants to choose between a 4th of july party with their buddies and going to geddon?


May 29th is Memorial Day. Just as the party's for the 4th there are tons of BBQs for Memorial Day - including my standing family reunion (although an excuse to miss that might not be SO terrible. ;) )
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Postby Devaryn » Wed Jul 12, 2006 8:59 pm

Or...you could all just come to Ragnarok, with its 1000 attendees... ;) :angel:


In all seriousness, holding it any earlier in June would hurt attendance tremendously because of school.

Holding it adjacent to the Ragnarok dates means you'll have **** attendance.

So it seems like the only possible option left is to push it into July somewhere. In June it's already hot and humid enough, and from week to week it's fairly unpredictable throughout the rest of the summer anyway. If you're already cool with coming out in the end of June then coming out in July really shouldn't change anything.
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Postby Xooyan » Thu Jul 13, 2006 8:56 am

Devaryn,
This is a thread about Armageddon on a Belegarth Board. Please do NOT post stuff about Rag here. This is not kosher.
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Postby Sorcia » Thu Jul 13, 2006 9:04 am

I think it should be right between Rag and Chaos. The July 4th week however is a great time because lots of people will have to use one less vacation day for the week long event. Basically, Wednesday would be free.

If you are worried about not getting to celebrate with your friends at home just celebrate the next weekend. I'm still hearing fireworks going off in my neighborhood every other night or so.
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Postby Lady Grey Malkin » Thu Jul 13, 2006 11:02 am

edited for double posting
Last edited by Lady Grey Malkin on Thu Jul 13, 2006 4:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Lady Grey Malkin » Thu Jul 13, 2006 11:02 am

There is an advantage of piggybacking both events for people driving long distances from the west. This would allow them to go to both events with only one long trip for driving at once.

If the concern is trying to attract more people who attend Rag only to our event, I really don't see that as happening. They seem to stick to Rag only for the most part aside from the handful of people who do crossover events.

Is change really going to make that dramatic of a difference in one year? No matter what time we pick there will be a segment of the group that is unhappy. Too early in June no one out West in college can attend as well as teachers that are not central IL teachers. Too close to Rag and people may have to choose where they want to be. To far into July and you are looking at a heat index that is more than uncomfortable. Too late into July and you are taking away from Chaos Wars.

One of the main ways to increase attendance is a better event year after year more so than a specific date change IMHO. I am not trying to step on toes with this just toss out some feelings that people I have talked with have.

Just a few thoughts to ponder.

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Postby bo1 » Thu Jul 13, 2006 12:52 pm

dates matter some, so does event quality, so does weather. What I/we are trying to do is create a small ripple effect to make Arms of the future get better attendance and rock more.
Temps in June and July are hit and miss.
Dates that let westerners come are great.
Staying away from competeing events also help alot.
I/we are learning alot by this so keep it coming.

thanks to all that have voted and posted.
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Postby Nilu » Thu Jul 13, 2006 5:24 pm

What about last week of july or first week of august? Most schools arent back in session till mid to late august. Enough of a gap for those who ask for time off for the 4th they should be able to get more. Should be much cooler. And there is still a good gap between it and EQ.
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Postby Xooyan » Thu Jul 13, 2006 5:50 pm

The last week of July and the first week of August are practically on top of Chaos Wars. Armageddon should not conflict with Chaos Wars. Please take time to consider that western events DO matter.

It is also not cooler in IL in late July or early August. These are what they call the dog days of summer and there's a reason for that. I lived there for over 19 years so I'm pretty familiar with the season.
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Postby bo1 » Thu Jul 13, 2006 8:24 pm

you are absolutely correct, august hottest hummidest month around here
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Postby Ju'Dekei » Thu Jul 13, 2006 8:49 pm

bo1 wrote:hummidest


HeeHee. "Hummidest" Makes me happy.

And in response to Bo's post: I don't know. July feels pretty awful. :(
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Postby Devaryn » Thu Jul 13, 2006 9:19 pm

Sorry, was just being silly with the Rag thing. :angel:

Aside from that, I still think I had some valid points though. The timing of things really sucks when you get right down to it. It honestly seems like the only way to avoid conflicting with any other event is to make it in July. People are overreacting when they say that July is SO much worse than June. There have been plenty of years when it was hotter for most of May than some weeks in July.

I've always wondered...in Belegarth it seems like Oktoberfest is truly the BIG event of the sport...so why not just concentrate on that as the major annual national event? There really isn't anything hugely national going on in Dagorhir aside from Ragnarok, so if you put all of your efforts into Oktoberfest then everyone from both sports would have TWO gigantic events to go to that are in opposite seasons!

I mean honestly, Oktoberfest gets around 400 people? What does Geddon get, 200?
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Postby Ju'Dekei » Thu Jul 13, 2006 9:27 pm

Devaryn wrote:I've always wondered...in Belegarth it seems like Oktoberfest is truly the BIG event of the sport...so why not just concentrate on that as the major annual national event? There really isn't anything hugely national going on in Dagorhir aside from Ragnarok, so if you put all of your efforts into Oktoberfest then everyone from both sports would have TWO gigantic events to go to that are in opposite seasons!


This is a valid point. Honestly though, I'm biased as I am all for cutting 'Geddon down to a 4 day event. I know that 'Geddon has special meaning to some and would like to keep it as is.

As for the weather. Two years ago we had snow on May 6th. The weather in this part of the world can be wildly unpredictable. mid-June to mid-July (while humid) are generally the driest part of the year though. And after having a rainy Oktoberfest and a rainy SpringWars I am greatful to hold 'Geddon durning "less likely to rain" season. :)

I stick by my previous vote, I believe that June is the best time.
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Postby Devaryn » Fri Jul 14, 2006 11:42 am

Well my thoughts were to have Oktoberfest be extended and either shorten Geddon or do away with it altogether.

Honestly, what would you rather have, two huge national events in opposing seasons so as to optimize attendance and convenience of vacation time...or only one really major weeklong national event, a competing weeklong event with only 200 people, and a 4-day campout with a lower attendance than it COULD have?

I LOVE Oktoberfest, and it has the potential to be the main national staple campout of Belegarth. Concentrating so much effort on Geddon is like putting up a K-Mart across the street from a Walmart supercenter.
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Postby Chicken » Fri Jul 14, 2006 12:18 pm

Thanks for comparing Geddon to K-Mart. You're an inspiration to all of us hard at work now planning for an event 12 months from now so that we can work our asses off proving you wrong.

Seriously , this is not an either/or issue. Oktoberfest is going to be 4 days long this year, and I'm ecstatic. That doesn't mean that geddon needs to be any shorter or less important, nor is it germane anyway.

The fact is, Geddon next year is going to kick a hellish amount of *. What's that, Spring Wars and Wolfpack Opener rocked your world? What's that, you've been to Hydra's camp, or one of Rhun's mini-events, or have just heard about the food, booze, and friendliness aplenty? Well, it's gonna be a week of that, but better. Show up, or feel stupid later.

Sure, Geddon's reputation has been suffering, and sadly we won't be able to wholly turn that around in a year. We won't have the numbers of Octoberfest or Rag (though we'll do our damndest to have as many people as we can). But I guarantee that if you do come, you'll see that reputation isn't the be-all and end-all, and you'll come back telling everyone who didn't go how badly they **** up.

Finally, it's been said here a number of times, and elsewhere a number of times, but no one seems to get it so I'll say it again:
On average, July in Danville is only 2* hotter than June!

Jimmy, you know I like you, but if you don't drive 3 hours or whatever it is to the kick-ass event we're co-hosting from another state because of those 2*, I will bash you into the ground every chance I get ;).

On topic - personally, I'm all for July. I'm sick of deliberately conflicting with Rag - aside from the (few?) brave long-trekkers that Lady Gray mentions, it just makes things worse and is petty and pointless. I want this to be a true National event, and so I really want to see more Westerners. The one and only I've met so far was cool, so as far as I'm concerned the rest of you must be too. July is pretty boring right now (no offense, Slaughter folks, but that's a long drive for me right now), why not have it then?
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Postby Winfang » Fri Jul 14, 2006 12:23 pm

Armageddon in the past have been, well for lack of better word, mismanged. Armageddon 1 was a good start, but the ball was dropped on Arm 2 and has since been left there. After hearing more about how dedicated Rhun and Wolfpack are to Armageddon 6, I'm very optimistic about it.

Edit - No harm, no foul Chicken. We can work around the dates of Armageddon. We're just trying to bring an event to the hundreds of people that live the Northeast Ohio area, similar to the Minis in Chicago-land.
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Postby Big King Jimmy » Fri Jul 14, 2006 1:52 pm

I really don't even know if I'd go if it was in June. I'd probably take off the whole week, take a look at the weather report, and shoot for the 3 or 4 days that look the coolest.

I'm sorry, Spring war/ Okfest both the weather doesn't bother me at all. I can stand around in snow and not have a problem. But heat just kills me. I'm not gonna show up to a flaming hot event and be miserable.

That being said, I still say that a spring break 'Geddon would be awesome. I know, I don't have much support there. That's fine.

Really, I'll sacrafice my own trip to 'Geddon for the good of the greater sport. I'd rather hear about us having an awesome huge 'Geddon, then go to a 200 person 'Geddon and soak up all the good time for myself.

Edit: Remember, this last 'Geddon was my first summer event since Lewendwei (sp) that middle earth held 5 or 6 years ago. I did NOT know what I was getting myself into.
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Postby savetuba » Fri Jul 14, 2006 2:08 pm

big J, you could always go to one of the winter events.

Personally being from AZ heat I can handle. The problem arises with schools down here. They start the first week of august and registration is always 2-3 weeks before that.

Late june, early july would be best for anyone from AZ to show up and I know there are a few who are thinking about it. But then that is another issue entirly.
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Postby GvK » Fri Jul 14, 2006 2:11 pm

Those primarily Dag folks, such as me, are just selfishly hoping to see a ridiculously large Rag with all of our Bel friends (and Bel folks in general)--running Arm right on top of Rag just dilutes the fun though which is too bad.
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Postby Vokor » Fri Jul 14, 2006 2:40 pm

GvK wrote:Those primarily Dag folks, such as me, are just selfishly hoping to see a ridiculously large Rag with all of our Bel friends (and Bel folks in general)--running Arm right on top of Rag just dilutes the fun though which is too bad.


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Postby bo1 » Mon Jul 17, 2006 2:25 pm

Thanks wigfang, I will buy you a steak at the next event. See Clan of the Hydra camp at octfest, its on me.
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Postby Lady Grey Malkin » Thu Jul 20, 2006 1:04 pm

Also something to consider is the change in the date of Pensic for next year. They will be holding Pensic in July through the first weeks of August. I am not sure how much this impacts our population but that may also be something to consider.

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Postby Angmarth » Fri Jul 21, 2006 3:52 pm

Some things to think about.

1) We currently have 3 kinds of events.

National Events: The only TRUE national event we have is Armageddon. It is the only event that is paid for by BMCS and the only event that contributes money to the treasury to pay our expenses. It is the only event that is regulated by the BMCS in its entirety.

Events that follow the BMCS BoW: Chaos War, Spring War, Beltaine, EQ, OctFest, Melcorme, Thaw Brawl, etc. are examples of this. Most of the BMCS events fall in this category.

Other events closely associated with the BMCS, but that are not restricted to the BoW: I imagine some of the Rausemae events use some of their RP rules and groups such as Riverbend Combat Association will have variations on how rules are implemented.

2) With that said, it is important for us to remember that our ONE national event needs to have the best dates for its success. Since having it on top of a competing event is silly, we should move it to another date. We should also avoid putting it on top of CW, since that is the premier western event.

It should be noted that ARM and CW do not actually compete with each other. While there will be a small contingient that travels to both, there is very little cross-over due to the insane distance and price of gas. I have been a long time supporter of CW becoming a national event for the west, but there would have to be a leap of faith by the western groups. This is really a discussion for another thread, so I will leave that topic for a later time.

With this in mind, I would suggest using the week after July 4th as the benchmark. Most families do things on the 4th, or its associated fireworks day(s). If you have ARM the week after the 4th (ex. this year holding it July 9th to July 15th), you will: 1) leave open the holiday for families, 2) not conflict with Origins, 3) have roughly 1 month to CW, 4) not conflict with Pennsic, and 5) not conflict with Rag. With these considerations in mind, I would strongly suggest you look at that set of dates.
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Dates for Armageddon VI

Postby Catalina » Wed Mar 07, 2007 10:59 am

So this is definitely set for July 8 - 15, 2007, right?

I'm just wanting to make sure because there haven't been any posts for a while and my son has Boy Scout camp that same week. I didn't know if he would have to choose between the two.

Of course he's only 12 so he wouldn't be able to fight anyway and he should probably go to Boy Scout camp while I spend my "alone time" enjoying Arm, but talking him into that scenario may be a problem.
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Me, I'm dishonest. And a dishonest man you can always trust to be dishonest. Honestly.
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Postby Theros the Large » Wed Mar 07, 2007 8:27 pm

The dates are set in stone.

I have made the reservations with the park and we have those dates set aside for us.
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Postby Vokor » Thu Mar 08, 2007 12:08 am

Sweet my Bday is over Geddon. I still thing i will get a room to sleep in one or two nights, or get a a/c unit I hate it when it is crazy hot out.
do not fear my size. fear that I know how to use it.
"but be wary for I am an ancient and fat evil " Graavish
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Postby Angmarth » Thu Jun 07, 2007 1:21 pm

Mods please remove this sticky. Since the date is set, this is old news.
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