Sell/trade Welded maille

[go_crazy4_free]

This is an unmarked poll so feel free to post comments or questions.


I make very high quality maille for about $0.09/ring plus shipping. I know

am not cheap. However, you will find few equals in quality. For the price

mentioned I use 5/16" mild steel rings. To cut expenses (lower price) and

weight while increasing strength I use alternating rows of punched rings.


The welded rings are overlapped rings that are usually made into riveted

rings. I weld the overlap. This forms a solid ring with a slightly thicker

part at the weld. These rings almost never break at the welds since the

welds are stronger than the rest of the ring. I can flatten the weld so it

looks a little like riveted from a distance for an additional $0.01/ring (for a

total of $0.10/ring)





Authenticity:I use approximately the same metal that would have

been used a thousand or more years ago in the pattern used: 4in1

horizontal european. Alternating rows of punched rings were used since

they were strong and saved both weight and time. Since I do the same

so you will get the same benefits. Some people claim that forge-welded

rings were used in history. I have tried but I don't see how it could have

been done since the temperature drops far too quickly for the ring to be

pounded shut. However, if it were done my maille would be as close you

could get without actually forge welding the rings.


In short, my maille is as authentic as you can get excluding riveted.






Why welded?:

Butted maille was not used except in the very early days of maille and

when emergency repairs were needed. Butted rings are relatively easy to

push apart and must be used in a very dense weave (small rings with

large wire) in order to have any semblence of strength.


butted is ok if you aren't going for authenticity or strength.





Most riveted maille today isn't as strong as it could be: the wrong type of

rivets are used. Triangular rivets were used since they were stronger and

easier to make with the tools availible. A slot was punched in a ring that

was completely flattened beforehand. Riveted maille you see today is

simply not as strong as welded and is about as authentic as butted maille.

Round
rivets are generally used and only the overlapping ends are flattened. A

fully flattened ring is much more effective at resisting forced opening and

offers a smaller hole for a point to penetrate. If you can find riveted

maille that uses triangular rivets and fully flattend rings get it!!!




If you can't find any good riveted maille then welded may be the answer.

I would avoid getting some types of welded. They are strong but they

aren't as strong or authentic as my maille because they are essentially

butted maille whose rings are welded with a TiG welder. Only the ends are

welded. This means that there is a small weld surface.

Also, the rings are not flattened so they don't offer as much penetration

protection as my rings.


So here's the question... Would you rather get butted maille that is cheap but not as lightweight or protective as welded or would you pay the extra for quality?

[go_crazy4_free]

By the way... I am NOT a bot. Belegarth!!!!
If anyone has something to trade please email me at go_crazy4_free@yahoo.com

[Dabbanoth]

Change your name to something, i dont care what, hell, pick 5 letters in a row out of the alphabet

[ICARUS]

go_crazy_4free- you should change your name to Dagg. Just to p*ss him off. LOL

[go_crazy4_free]

I'm not going to change my name since it is my email at yahoo.com.

[Syrik]

I don;t see what that has to do what your username but...

I would go for whatever is the cheapest, because nothing what we do necessitates having armor that would stop a real sword, if that was the case I probably would wear something stronger than leather.

My suggestion is to sell at ren faires (maybe you already do) booths aren't typically that expensive and you can sell your goods for alot more than you could ever hope to on the internet.

[Peregrine]

interest might peak, after they have seen it at an event. its hard to get some one to pay more for quality until they can see the difference. for my self budget forces me to go with more affordable even if its not as good but I am sure there are some who can afford it. once they have seen it.

[go_crazy4_free]

I don't know of any events near me. I live in Atlanta but have heard of only rumors of events. And do I have to register or something?

[Peregrine]

if you are just looking for a market ren fair are great and tend have patrons willing to drop large amounts of cash.
here a list of refairs worth ther salt
http://www.renaissancemagazine.com/fairelist.html

[Oisin]

Dude, start making shoulder doublings and marketing to Roman reinactors--except that they riveted instead of welding, this is exactly what the Romans did, and because there is the possibility of welding, a lot of Roman groups allow it, on the basis that it's a hell of a lot better than butted, and possibly historical. If your work is good, you'll have a pretty good audience there. Also, people in the SCA tend to have a much higher money tolerance for armor than Belegarth and Dagorhir people, so you might try there as well. I don't expect you to sell more than one or two shirts, if that, to this audience. Just not what people are in the market for. Also, very, very, very few people in this sport are interested in mail that is going to rust.

On a side note, do you charge the same price for the solid rings as the welded ones? And about how much does a full shirt come out to being (knowing that since this is custom made for people with different chest sizes, the answer will of course vary)? I'm not really in the market for a shirt like this, but just kinda curious.

[go_crazy4_free]

I, personally, would probably charge more for riveted if I made it. I don't make it because it is very difficult to produce without specialized tools and very expensive. It is, in fact, cheaper for me to buy the rings that are used to make riveted and just weld them. My price is the average number of rings. If I make a square piece of maille that contains 61 rings there are 25 welded and 36 solid punched rings. Punched rings are super cheap but the overlaping rings are about three cents a ring. I just average it out so I am making a profit of about 5 cents a ring (I add about an extra cent to my costs for equipment and gas). I agree that welded rings are historically dubious but if they aren't they at least look a little like riveted from a distance.

As far as rust goes, My rings usually end up rusty after I finish welding them so I tumble it in a mixture that contains oils and sawdust to remove the rust and prevents further rust. If my maille is kept out of the rain most of the time and oiled rarely (like once a month if it was worn while it was raining) it probably won't rust. My maille is kind of a blue color from the oil and is probably what maille looked like as far as color is concerned. I am sure that maille wasn't allowed to rust and that leftover oil from cooking or whatever was applied to prevent rust.

In all, I don't make riveted and my maille won't rust easily.

[Twinkle]

You still haven't answered the big question: how much would a full shirt cost? It's hard to compare your prices to other chainmailers when they give prices by the shirt and you give them by the ring.

[Big King Jimmy]

So here's the question... Would you rather get butted maille that is cheap but not as lightweight or protective as welded or would you pay the extra for quality?

answer: cheap, butted.

[Oisin]

A shirt can have anywhere from 10,000 or so rings on up, I guess . . . so I think we're talking about a minimum of almost a thousand dollars here, and going up quickly, which is not going to sell. Also, I think that you are being very dishonest about your costs, and in fact have inflated them considerably. I know for a fact that overlapping mild steel rings, at 16 gauge, are available in bulk for about a penny each, and that the solid rings are cheaper. I would also hazard to guess that a penny per ring is a massive overcharge for equipment and gas fees.

My verdict: charging waaaay, waaaay too much. Time is valuable, but your time isn't that valuable, at least not to us.

[Twinkle]

A few questions. How long have you been making chainmaile? Do you have a portfolio/website that features your work? How much research have you done? How many pieces have you already sold and for how much? Do you make other things from metal as well, like belts or "clothing" for women, or is this the only thing you do?

[Peregrine]

A few questions. How long have you been making chainmaile? Do you have a portfolio/website that features your work? How much research have you done? How many pieces have you already sold and for how much? Do you make other things from metal as well, like belts or "clothing" for women, or is this the only thing you do?

he answered most of this in an earlier post.
http://belegarth.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=22225

[Syrik]

I don't want to scare you off if your were going to be in belegarth, but this just isn't the right market for those prices. If you are intent on making and selling chain mail. My suggestion would be to get a one or two people to help you and sort of apprentice under you so you can churn out a lot more at cheaper prices. You make quality stuff, if you can sell stuff for cheaper I think you could do very good.

[go_crazy4_free]

Whoops, yeah, I have been overpaying for my rings. I just found out that theringlord carries both types of rings for much cheaper than I have been paying. I appologize for the price hike and I was not trying to make such a profit. I was origanally paying about 3 cents per overlapped ring and about three quarters of a cent per punched ring. That makes my costs about five cents a ring for shipping, gas, etc. then about four cents per ring since which is about $10/hour. That is, I believe, a skilled labor wage (and yes, welding, weaving, anything with maille is skilled labor). Theringlord's price per ring is about 0.85 cents per overlapped ring and 0.70 cents per punched ring. this averages out to about 0.78 cents per ring. Round up to the nearest cent (for gas and shipping of rings) and add to about 4 cents per ring for my time makes 5 cents a ring. I am totally sorry about the price hike and now you know how I charge my rings. So here is the math:

Costs: 1 cent/ring

Time per ring: 245 rings/hour

cost hour: $2.45/hour

profit per ring: 4 cents

profit per hour: $9.80/hour

so price is 5 cents per ring + 1 cent/ring for flattened welds.

How much research have you done? How many pieces have you already sold and for how much? Do you make other things from metal as well, like belts or "clothing" for women, or is this the only thing you do?

My intended market is armor since belts and bras ( )don't need to be welded.

I have been making maille as just a hobby and didn't seel it since the market doesn't pay well unless you are specialized. I started making welded maille about a year and a half ago because I ordered riveted rings but got overlapping rings instead. I decided to use our old oxy/acet. torch to try and weld them. I almost gave up before someone told me that you could use a smaller tip (clearly, I wasn't an expert when it came to welding). I, unfortunetley, don't have a portfolio since I am new to adding on to the internet. I am working on one so I might have it soon (I hope).

Again, sorry for the price hike.

Now for the question again: Would you pay about $500 for a sleeved shirt of welded maille?

[Peregrine]

$500 sounds like a fair price. mrl sells rivitted for $695 so that sounds reasonable I however am not currently in the market for chain mail.

[Oisin]

Ok, yeah, that is much more reasonable. I agree, $10 an hour plus materials is certainly a more than fair price. I still think that you will have a very hard time selling to the Belegarth crowd, but at $500 a shirt, you might sell a few. Again, try marketing the reenactment and SCA types, they are much more likely to blow that sort of money on armor.

[Big King Jimmy]

I don't know if anyones told you, but Belegarth really is the poor mans side of medival themed orginizations.

[Peregrine]

so true so true,

[go_crazy4_free]

Yeah. It seems that every single combat or midievel reenactment sociaty is far away from Atlanta, which is where I live. All of the ones close to Atlanta seem to be to the south, which is the other side for me. Does anyone know of any sociaty within, like, 50 miles of northeast Atlanta?

I'm trying to sell over the 'net even though I will probably not sell very many shirts or coifs. If I can sell a few though it's worth trying, even if it is unlikely.

[Twinkle]

I'd suggest expanding your crafted items to things like bras and belts. You would be surprised how well those things sell.

[Aurvandil]

whats the gauge? the measurement chart I used said 5/16" is bigger than 1 gauge.

[Todo]

Necro'd on the five year anniversary of its last post. What a fine gesture.


Edited because I'm **** stupid

[Aurvandil]

.... I did not look at the dates.