Fun noodle

Making Weapons and Shields

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Should funnodles be legal foam? (read first)

no
70
56%
yes
56
44%
 
Total votes : 126

Fun noodle

Postby Ivan Rockbreaker » Tue Apr 29, 2003 9:15 pm

Real quick after reading this, would you let someone use a fun noodle weapon?

Did I tell anyone that I hate "fun-noodle" as weapons making material?
Last year I was out in Los Angeles on business and stuck there over a weekend, so I decided to go to a practice that Ralimar was organizing. An amtgard fighter with a greatsword made of "fun-noodle" swung and hit my left hand which was holding an axe. While the weapon had been checked at the start of the day, when it hit me there was no padding left so the plain pvc core hit my hand. It hurt a bit at first but after icing it I was able to fight a bit more. I kept icing it that evening and taking advil, but when I woke up the next morning my hand had swollen. A trip to the emergency room confirmed a broken bone in the left hand with possible damage to the knuckle of the index finger.

After surgery out in LA that week the Orthopod described the second metacarpal bone as "pulverized", not fractured. I then had another surgery last fall to free the tendons up from scar tissue. After thirteen months of constant hand therapy 2-4 times a week plus daily at-home work, I've got about 70% mobility back in the finger. I can't think what I'd have done if I didn't have insurance that covered the tens of thousands of dollars in medical expenses. Or for that matter understanding bosses who put up with me missing so much work for surgery, regular therapy and doctors appointments or the two month period when I couldn't type (and my job depends on typing).

Did I say that I hate "fun-noodle" as the basis for the striking surface of weapons? Or that I'm told that over 70% of Amtgard weapons are made with that crud?
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Postby Ivan Rockbreaker » Tue Apr 29, 2003 9:16 pm

I vote no because i don't think it's smart to even consider after something like this happens.
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Postby Thorondor » Tue Apr 29, 2003 9:17 pm

Make sure people know that was a quote by Kyrax.

Oh, and Kyrax, how's all the injuries wise old one :)

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Postby Poeir » Tue Apr 29, 2003 9:19 pm

I'd say no for around cores, but I think it's fine for flail heads. The problem is that it breaks down and stops being padding over the core, but if there's no core inside, then there's really no problem.
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Postby Andrek » Tue Apr 29, 2003 10:18 pm

I guess it is obvious that I said yes, seeing how now it is the only vvote for yes. I allow it for non-striking surfaces becasue it is cheap and you don't hit with the accidnetal zone enough to break it down. You do need to replace it once every 3-5 mo. But if it is used in the accidental zone area then you don't have problems. I don't allow it for striking surfaces ON RED WEAPONS. I have the really big ones for 4' heads on some maces, but they have to be replaced once every 1.5-3 mo. It comes down to safety. If I think the weapon will breakdown durring battle (ie any signs it will within 4 hours of trashing) then I won't pass it.
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funnoodles

Postby Xipher » Wed Apr 30, 2003 8:29 am

Hey guys, that's not really how we've done weapons rules in the past. So far we've gotten along fine just by checking the merits of the completed weapon without having to resort to specifying that you absolutely *cannot* use certain materials. This is with the exception of a few core materials such as axe handles, but it's pretty obvious that those are not safe to be used. I don't prefer to use fun noodle foam when I'm making weapons, but I do think it's possible to use them in a safe weapon somehow. I like the style of the rules now where as long as you can make it safe, most anything is legal. Let's not stile people's foamsmithing choices.
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Postby Obryn » Wed Apr 30, 2003 9:43 am

Fun noodles are crappy foam, but they have their uses - flail heads, haft padding (sometimes), quarterstaves, playing around in the pool... Wait, scratch that last one.

Anyway, each weapon does need to be judged on its own merits.
I am not a fan of funnoodle blades at all - but I think they can be safe, if made right. As a weapon checker, I would be WAY more rigorous with a weapon I thought poorly constructed. Using funnoodle counts as "poorly constructed" in my book. :)

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Postby Sonus » Wed Apr 30, 2003 12:40 pm

Eh, all I use Funoodle foam for are flail heads and maybe haft padding if I'm desperate. For haft padding I usually use pipe insulation...
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YEs, but..

Postby Calarn the Black » Wed Apr 30, 2003 1:10 pm

Yes, but only for flail heads. Use as basis for core padding is asking for a pain stick that you would have your eyes gouged out repeatedly with a wooden spoon for. :devil:

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Postby Andrek » Wed Apr 30, 2003 3:49 pm

King Andrek wrote: I have the really big ones for 4' heads on some maces


I meant 4".
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Postby Ivan Rockbreaker » Wed Apr 30, 2003 4:49 pm

what is happening in my realm is one of the guys built a bunch of swords with just fun noodle and pvc. They are to be loaned out to newbies that don't have their own weapons. After reading this, I don't want to allow fun noodle for striking edge. That is what the poll is asking.
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Postby Obryn » Wed Apr 30, 2003 4:54 pm

I have to point out - trying to ban funnoodle because of a bad accident involving it is ... well, silly. It'd be like trying to ban wal-mart foam because of some injuries with swords made of it.

There are safe funnoodle swords out there; you just need to check them pretty regularly. I'd never build one of the **** myself, but I don't trust an assertion that it's impossible.

Let the heralds use their judgment. It's what they're there for.

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Postby Mercer » Wed Apr 30, 2003 7:37 pm

Personal opinion: any weapon-construction material that can go from safe to injurious in the space of a couple hours' fighting (and does so regularly) is, at best, questionable and, at worst, a danger.

Your milage may vary, of course.
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Postby Elebrim » Thu May 01, 2003 4:04 pm

I don't really see any problem in it. So long as the weapon can be proven safe over long periods of time, and is checked regularly for safety, then why not? My local group has a few weapons made out of the same type of foam, and they haven't caused any serious injuries (aside from the average cut or bruise) simply because of the fact that they are checked for damage to the foam on a regular basis. There should be a limit on what types of weapons they are used on, though. Larger weapons probably should avoid using funnoodles as primary padding.

Also, there are different degrees of funnoodle quality. There's the higher quality, more compact and durable ones, and then there's those very bad quality short-lived ones you buy for two bucks a dozen at the local dollar store. The one's I've been used to are made of the cheap stuff, and have to be re-padded after every several weeks of rough combat.
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Postby Kyrax » Thu May 01, 2003 4:30 pm

After surgery out in LA that week the Orthopod described the second metacarpal bone as "pulverized", not fractured. I then had another surgery last fall to free the tendons up from scar tissue. After thirteen months of constant hand therapy 2-4 times a week plus daily at-home work, I've got about 70% mobility back in the finger. I can't think what I'd have done if I didn't have insurance that covered the tens of thousands of dollars in medical expenses. Or for that matter understanding bosses who put up with me missing so much work for surgery, regular therapy and doctors appointments or the two month period when I couldn't type (and my job depends on typing).


As has been pointed out, this quote describes my life for the last fourteen months (3/9/02 to present). So you can guess how I voted.

For the record, I do understand those who like the idea of a cheap quick way to make weapons. But as a former Realm Head Weapons checker and a weapons checker at more regional and national events than most people have ever attended, I hate the idea that people are advocating a weapon making material that has to be rebuilt or replaced "every several weeks". If that is happening, there is something wrong with either the construction or the materials. I personally rebuild my polearms and spears every couple of YEARS.
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Postby Sir Cairbre » Thu May 01, 2003 4:47 pm

I voted no,

Yet when I was still a noob (fighting for 2 years) I made a set of fun-noodle swords that past at two consecutive Beltains without rebuilding them. the trick was I didn't just use fun-noodle, I used some blue and open cell then fun-noodle. They lasted forever and were stabbing some of the best weapons I have ever had.

Thinking about them makes me want to go pull them out of my old weapons barrel and re-build them.
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Postby Dach » Fri May 02, 2003 9:52 am

Depend on how you use the fun noodle. I think there to hard for a sword but for a fali or sides on a shield they work.
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Postby Sir Killian » Sat May 03, 2003 2:56 am

fun noodle suxor.....
fine for tap fighting...
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Postby Cedric » Sat May 03, 2003 9:47 am

i made some fun noodle swords a few years ago, just to see how long they would last. They lasted about 10 minutes per sword, before the tip was unsafe. fun noodle sucks
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Postby Fodder » Sun May 04, 2003 12:44 pm

Just to be a prick I think funoodle works better for incidental padding than pipe insulation, provided the object is large enough. I'm talking the cheap gray stuff not the foam rubber...

It's just funny how people are like "funoodle sucks I use pipe insulation' - some of that stuff breaks down even faster!

I used funoodle to pad my shield edging 3 years ago and it's held up fine.

Striking surface is another thing entirely - I'd hate to see something approved with just funoodle for padding. Personally I think they hit too hard... I have made "quick" polarms with funoodle at the head and 2-3 layers of bluefoam over top mainly to have something brand new strictly for events, I could also see them coming in handy for starting say a macehead but the key idea is there's at least a couple of layers of bluefoam and that's what's hitting your opponent, not the funoodle itself...

Ironically enough that's more for aesthetic reasons than quality.

BTW Ivan it sucks that you got injured that way, but I got hit with a perfectly legal blue once on the hands and watched my middle digits compress about a half inch with the knuckle - somehow I wasn't injured but it hurt like hell, I also know I'm not the only one who's got a jammed thumb from similar blows - I think I'm going to start mitten gauntlets as my next armouring project partially inspired by your post.
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Postby Tren » Sun May 04, 2003 7:01 pm

I agree with Fodder, I've had worse luck with pipe insulation breaking down than with decent funoodle, yea some of it's absolute crap but a high enough quality funoodle will last the life of a weapon. I don't think that they should be used on striking surfaces, they're simply not enough, but as haft padding I have absolutely no problem with them. I have a red mace that has a layer of high quality funoodle for haft padding, and then 3 layers of blue, and it's perfectly fine, we haven't had a problem yet.

I'm really sorry to hear about your injury though, that's really horrible, and I hope it heals completely soon.
Last edited by Tren on Sun May 04, 2003 7:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby varadin » Sun May 04, 2003 7:04 pm

Not only do they hurt the weapons look stupid. It isnt that hard to make a decent weapon that doesnt hurt. If you are too lazy to bother making a weapon out of blue foam or something get out of the sport.
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Postby Ivan Rockbreaker » Mon May 05, 2003 2:14 am

If you are too lazy to bother making a weapon out of blue foam or something get out of the sport.

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Postby Sgt. Kiff Skitterzz » Mon May 05, 2003 11:11 am

I'd say fun noodles could be good for shaft padding, if you put something over the noodle, they work fine-in my experience.(such as it is.)
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Postby Kyrax » Mon May 05, 2003 3:08 pm

For the record, I don't really have a problem if the stuff is used for haft padding or other incidental padding. I'm not wild about it, but I don't like pipe insulation either for how fast it breaks down.
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Re: Fun noodle

Postby Owen » Mon May 05, 2003 5:45 pm

Ivan Rockbreaker wrote:Real quick after reading this, would you let someone use a fun noodle weapon?

Did I tell anyone that I hate "fun-noodle" as weapons making material?
Last year I was out in Los Angeles on business and stuck there over a weekend, so I decided to go to a practice that Ralimar was organizing. An amtgard fighter with a greatsword made of "fun-noodle" swung and hit my left hand which was holding an axe. While the weapon had been checked at the start of the day, when it hit me there was no padding left so the plain pvc core hit my hand. It hurt a bit at first but after icing it I was able to fight a bit more. I kept icing it that evening and taking advil, but when I woke up the next morning my hand had swollen. A trip to the emergency room confirmed a broken bone in the left hand with possible damage to the knuckle of the index finger.

After surgery out in LA that week the Orthopod described the second metacarpal bone as "pulverized", not fractured. I then had another surgery last fall to free the tendons up from scar tissue. After thirteen months of constant hand therapy 2-4 times a week plus daily at-home work, I've got about 70% mobility back in the finger. I can't think what I'd have done if I didn't have insurance that covered the tens of thousands of dollars in medical expenses. Or for that matter understanding bosses who put up with me missing so much work for surgery, regular therapy and doctors appointments or the two month period when I couldn't type (and my job depends on typing).

Did I say that I hate "fun-noodle" as the basis for the striking surface of weapons? Or that I'm told that over 70% of Amtgard weapons are made with that crud?


Some Gwynedd weapons (blue swords) where made of the stuff a while back they seemed to work out ok, however a red weapon hm I dont think so however that is why we have weapons checkers right.

Oh and a big HEY to the old man Kyrax!
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Postby Sir Killian » Tue May 06, 2003 2:26 am

once again... FUNOODLE SUXOR

its light but SUXOR MY BALLZOR
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Postby Owen » Tue May 06, 2003 5:39 am

Killian wrote:once again... FUNOODLE SUXOR

its light but SUXOR MY BALLZOR


Good to know your getting something Killian, but foam or blow up women its all the same dude an excuse not to put yourself in an emotional situaton, let it go, let it go. :angel:
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Re: Fun noodle

Postby Kyrax » Tue May 06, 2003 1:07 pm

Owen wrote:Some Gwynedd weapons (blue swords) where made of the stuff a while back they seemed to work out ok, however a red weapon hm I dont think so however that is why we have weapons checkers right.

Oh and a big HEY to the old man Kyrax!


Yes Owen, but the frequency with which the Knights of Gwynedd used their weapons meant that they'd last for years...

Hey yourself big guy. Am I going to see you at Mayhem on Memorial Day weekend? If for nothing else, why don't you make the trek to Marietta Mansion for the evening festivities?
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Postby Owen » Tue May 06, 2003 1:23 pm

I dont know old man, Kate is going to be there for Leaths wedding, not a confration I really want too have in front of all of Dagorhir you know. However I will think on it, the Gwynedd guys really want me to be there so we will have too see how things stand between Kate and I if we are getting along then yeah if not then prob not.
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Postby Elwrath » Thu May 15, 2003 9:52 am

I agree with Ivan most everyone else who has posted that its stupid to have it on striking surfaces, but I do use it for pommels and axe hafts and such, but Ivan is right definately not on red swords.

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p.s. sorry about you hand Ivan that sucks...
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Postby Kyrax » Thu May 15, 2003 2:03 pm

Elwrath wrote:I agree with Ivan most everyone else who has posted that its stupid to have it on striking surfaces, but I do use it for pommels and axe hafts and such, but Ivan is right definately not on red swords.

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p.s. sorry about you hand Ivan that sucks...


That was my hand Elwrath, and thanks for the thought.

I agree with you about it being okay for pommels and incidental haft padding, I use it for that in my daggers.
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Postby Sir Morpheus » Wed May 21, 2003 9:33 pm

I don't mean to toot my own horn but I made a Baddass glaive out of a "Mega-noodle" granted it took a few tries but none the less your situation sounds like a case of poor weapons checking to me
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Postby Visgoth the Barbarian » Thu May 22, 2003 4:02 pm

fun noodle just sux anyway. it requires like no work and thats half the fun of making your own weapons
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Postby varadin » Thu May 22, 2003 8:17 pm

Sir Morpheus wrote:I don't mean to toot my own horn but I made a Baddass glaive out of a "Mega-noodle" granted it took a few tries but none the less your situation sounds like a case of poor weapons checking to me
i feel sorry for you always haveing to rebuild it. And anyone in your kingdom that has had to take a hit with that.
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Postby Kyrax » Thu May 22, 2003 11:56 pm

Sir Morpheus wrote:I don't mean to toot my own horn but I made a Baddass glaive out of a "Mega-noodle" granted it took a few tries but none the less your situation sounds like a case of poor weapons checking to me


Sir Morpheus,

I don't know you and am not familiar with any of the title/group nomenclature in your signature line other than Wolfpack, so I don't know if you're a really experienced Amtgard or L.A.R.P. foam-smith or a regular participant to Belegarth/Dagorhir full-contact fighting. But I checked all of the weapons the day I was injured, including the one in question. I am a very experienced weapons checker with over a decade and a half experience checking at multi-realm events, though I don't claim to be very experienced working with or checking fun-noodle.

The weapon seemed to be okay when it was checked and failed horribly by the time later that day when I got nailed. Ironically, when I've mentioned this injury and my antipathy to fun-noodle in a forum of experienced weapons makers in the group that it was built for, they've unanimously said that they'd never make a pvc-cored fun-noodle covered polearm.

Either way, if you do come to a Belegarth or Dagorhir event, I'd be happy to see your toy. I'd also like fair warning so that I can get off of the field as I will not participate if such a weapon were to be passed.
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Postby Sir Morpheus » Fri May 23, 2003 1:00 pm

Kyrax.

ok Whether you have heard of me or not I don't care but I did not attack you or your Weapon checking skills so Chill out. I have been Checking Weapons in Belegarth for three years and I know that there are situations where weapons go south fast and it sometimes ends in an injury which is never good.

as far as my glaive goes it's a meganoodle with Blue foam strips all around it on a Fibergalss Bandpole, it passes everytime and I am going to venture to say that we in wolfpack have some of the strictest standards for weapon checking that I have seen at any event or realm I have visited

and as far Belegarth events go do you you even go to them anyway?, and as far as Dagorhir goes they can stick it >:(

ok I'm done
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Postby Kyrax » Tue May 27, 2003 10:46 am

Morpheus,

I wasn't attacking you either, just adding information. I agree with you that there are situations where a weapon "goes south" rapidly, but where we differ is the fact that many people who use 'fun noodle' report that it is notorious for failing rapidly. I'm not familiar with the brand "meganoodle", so if it is different from the usual pool toy or not I don't know.

As to whether your weapon is safe or not, I also don't know having never seen it. The limited descriptions you've given don't inspire any confidence, and saying that it has "Blue foam strips all around" the meganoodle doesn't give me a good picture of it. However, if your realm checks it and it passes, my opinion isn't important. On the other hand, I wonder if it will hold up for the thirteen years and counting that my first glaive blade has? While that is an extreme for weapon durability, I have no patience for weapons that constantly fail and if most 'fun-noodle' makes the problem worse I will continue to argue against its use. I've also made it clear many times that in my opinion a glaive or other polearm can be dangerous even when the padding doesn't fail.

Thanks for injecting politics into what was a safety discussion. Last event I attended out in Illinois was Oktoberfest 2001, my third event at Forest Glen. While that was prior to Belegarth's formation, I suppose that would apply. The next time I was at a non-Dagorhir event was a practice hosted by Ralimar's version of Aggelgorod, at which my hand was shattered. Sixteen months later I am finally starting to fight again, so I haven't had a chance to attend any events in the couple of weeks that I've been able to take the field. I'm sure that you hadn't thought about this when you posted that comment, or about the sixteen plus hour drive I live away from the Illinois sites where the nearest Belegarth camping events are. Despite that, I hope to be able to get to at least one Belegarth event this year.
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Postby Sir Killian » Tue May 27, 2003 5:15 pm

Owen i told you to keep that on the downlow.... :D

Morpheus the ultranoodle is ok but its 4-5 inches thick so with enough open cell foam i can make a safe weapon... its good as a base not a striking surface...

Kyrax is old...j/k i remember when you came to oktoberfest 01' it was much fun as for living 16 hours away i can feel your pain...

and to reiterate... FUNOODLE SUXOR MY BALLZOR

IMO using funoodle excentuates the fact that all we are playing is a glorified game of tag....

Ivan-if you are to use too use the weapons keep a close eye on them.... and if you have to use a certain type of funoodle use WACKYNOODLE apperantly it lasts longer.. so ive been told by amtguard peeps...
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Postby Tor » Tue May 27, 2003 5:30 pm

I like funnoodle in some weapons, as long as it's understood to be a base for other foam rather than the entire striking surface. I think it works excellenly in the non-striking surfaces, in that they tend to take less wear there and don't tend to create enough force with an accidental hit to do real damage. It's also quite nice for use in shields as an edge guard, when used with sufficient layers of open cell. I'd never use a glaive/polearm that was strictly funnoodle as a blade, but it does have its uses.
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Postby Kyrax » Wed May 28, 2003 7:52 am

Yes Killian, MudFest '01 was fun despite the rain. I flew in for that one on a stop-over paid for by my work, so it wasn't as tough as the long-ass drive would be.

Tor, I actually agree that as incidental padding, the fun-noodle can be okay (I use it that way on daggers). I'm not wild about it being used for the "coffee can" behind a glaive blade, but if it is well padded and rigorously checked, it may be okay. But, given the known safety issues, why use it for that if there is little difference in cost between enough blue camping pad foam or a noodle?
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Postby The Lost Celt » Wed May 28, 2003 11:05 am

Erm, I remembered someone mentioning in this post that some types of funoodle break down faster - realized the difference today - I only use it for shield edging mind ye but the crap that has a shiny skin over it has lasted me 3 years, the ones with the uniform color broke when I so much as put a fingernail on it. I've never noticed that before, but than again I haven't built a new shield in a good while either

I dunno if anyone else does it this way, but I use strips of duct tape to connect it to the shield - gluing seems like you're just waiting for it to tear off. I've had to tighten the edging once or twice, but that's it.
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Postby Sphinx » Wed May 28, 2003 11:31 am

I have a dagger (well, I had a dagger) named Moe. Actually, it was more like a knife. Anyway, it's a weapon I carry upside down. I use it to block, it's saved my life more than a few times, but I rarely get the chance to strike with it. That job is for my other sword.

This knife is mine. I take good care of it and I can count on one hand the amount of times I've let another person borrow it. One of those times was yesterday when I let Elwrath use it since he wanted to try his hand at being an archer. Now, keep in mind that I've had this knife for probably about eight months now. It's passed dozens of weapons checks here in Utah and also down in Idaho.

So anyway, back to the story. Elwrath ran out of arrows, as archers do. He dropped his bow, took out my dagger and started to fight with it. That's when I lost track of him in the battle, I was kinda fighting my own at that point. The battle ends and I notice John sitting on the ground craddling his head, and Elwrath sitting down asking John if he's okay. Elwrath had accidentally head shotted him, but that happens. The only problem was the shot was much harder then it should have been.

When we re-checked the weapon we found that the foam had deteriorated to the point where a decent strike with it went down nearly to core. A weapon that had recently been fine, was now unsafe. The foam the dagger was made out of wasn't fun noodle, but it was a foam very similar to it. And thus Moe was retired and now I get to fight with Moe II.

I know people who use fun noodle for the shafts on javelins and other incidental areas and I agree with most people in saying that's fine. I however would never put fun noodle foam on any striking surface. It's too unpredicatable, and when it goes, it goes fast. Putting that kind of foam in a red weapon seems far too dangerous. However, I'm not going to mandate how people build their weapons. If they can use that kind of foam safely, then I guess I have to let them. So, all in all, I think fun noodle is unsafe. I would never use it. But I'm against banning it because it could be used well. I mean, Moe was fine for over half a year...

So, yeah, have I rambled enough yet?
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Postby varadin » Wed May 28, 2003 2:51 pm

Sphinx wrote:Now, keep in mind that I've had this knife for probably about eight months now.


that is your problem. Weapons break down especialy over the winter. If they get wet or just not used it sits there and rots no matter what the condition. No matter how many times it passes it matters on what it is like that day and always check them that day.
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I did not vote, It works well for Amtgard not for Belegarth

Postby seldon » Thu May 29, 2003 12:48 am

I just needed to add my 2 cents.

The quality of funnoodle has deteriorated since it's invention. If you happen to have an old funnoodle (6 years or so old) and you cut a cross section and compare it to a new one bought at walmart. You will find the old one has incredibly dense grain structure. Grains that have to be measured in fractions of millimeters. The new one has a grain structure of about 1/8 inch!

The use of funnoodle was started primarily in Amtgard. They have noticed the decline in the quality of funnoodle but are at a loss to figure out what to do about it. It is true that the swords need to be maintained constantly. In the Amtgard world you would replace the padding every 3 months or so. But remember that most amtgard players strike with considerably less force than Belegarth players.

For Belegarth I recommend that they only be used for things such as hafts on polearms.

For strinking serfaces I recommend layered camping pad with the layers running perpendicular to the direction of swing. It is really the only form that holds up well under the rough conditions in Belegarth.

I tried funnoodle in a pre-Belegarth group about 4 years ago and all of those swords blew out in no time.

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Postby Barahir Ingem » Thu May 29, 2003 12:00 pm

I vote no. Of course, I'm an Evalite snob. It's more expensive, but cross-linked polyethylene lasts forever.

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Postby Sir Beak » Fri May 30, 2003 2:17 pm

I vote no also. Beside the fact that they are unreliable in safety standards they in no way truly resemble a weapon i think weapons should look somwhat like it is. with fun noodles everything is like a club on a stick. Fun noodles obviously arent fun when ur hurt. who wants to say... 'oh my hand? a fun noodle got me' fun noodles arent fun after a injury
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Postby Sir Killian » Sun Jun 01, 2003 11:24 pm

FUNOODLE SUXOR MY CHODZOR

blah blah blah blah blah blah
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Postby Jed » Thu Jun 05, 2003 7:18 am

I also vote no. I tried to make several weapons out of fun noodles and it didn't turn out very well. Granted I made them in Junior High and didn't know what I was doing, but they did fall apart in less then 2 hours of use
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Postby Tor » Thu Jun 05, 2003 8:03 am

Killian wrote:FUNOODLE SUXOR MY CHODZOR


As always, Killian, your grammatical genius cuts to the heart of the discusion... :P :)
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