Mini crossbow / crossbow pistol?

[Tarin]

Would a crossbow like this be legal?



This particular model is 50 lbs draw so I'd have to figure out how to fix that....but assuming it was weak enough, there isn't any size specifications in the rules. More importantly, it's a single handed bow, and the pistol-style design might be considered too "modern"?

For example could you have 2 or 3 of these pre-loaded, tucked under your cloak? (they're pretty cheap, so that wouldn't be prohibitively expensive).

[Soo Ma Tai]

I see no issue other than the poundage. As it stands now, you'd have to bring it down to 15 lbs. and that would render it nearly ineffective. You could prolly throw an arrow farther by hand than shooting it out of a 15 lb. x-bow.

[Oznog]

Yeah, they're already quite weak, significantly less than "half draw", and IIRC the poundages they list are significantly higher than reality. If it were actually made 15 lbs, then it's be much more impact to just throw the arrow.

It's actually not as easy to sling a pistol bow as you think. The bow being 90 deg from the handle means it'll never sit flat anywhere you put it. The movement tends to pull out the arrow if it's swinging around or brushing against part of your body.

I've shown off a trick where you pull it way back and throw the whole thing like you're chucking a javelin, but pull the trigger and hold onto the crossbow instead of actually throwing. That actually got a pretty remarkable range off of it, but it's hard to do in reality, fairly unaimed, and not stopping your throw until the very end with that weight in your hand is hell on your elbow.

[Tarin]

You say these bows are usually rated higher than their actual draw strength? In that case, how do marshals determine whether its too strong? Also, side note...does it count if you throw arrows?

[Kage]

No thrown arrows don't count.

[Nibenon]

For example could you have 2 or 3 of these pre-loaded, tucked under your cloak?

sounds preety flippin dangerous to me to be running around a field with that....

[No'Vak]

Sounds really **** cheesy if you ask me.

[Oznog]

You say these bows are usually rated higher than their actual draw strength? In that case, how do marshals determine whether its too strong? Also, side note...does it count if you throw arrows?

The bows may not be the 50# or 80# advertised, but no way is it 15#.
Actually the key is not the chu-ko-nu repeating crossbow, but to just make a big rack of pistols.

Yeah, I personally dislike pistol crossbows for LARP use. They don't replicate the form or function of a crossbow very well. I used one a few times for kicks. There was a castle wall like chin-high that I couldn't really shoot over with my regular crossbow, so I loaded that up and held it over the wall, shooting blindly gangsta-style yelling "YEAH BIYACH! That's how we do things in MY neighborhood!" I have no idea if I hit anyone, and I don't care, 'cause it was funny.

[Dawnbringer]

Lol sometimes you only need to be funny to be effective

[Othello]

Sounds to me like someone has been reading some forgotten realms books. However amazing the idea, I think that having 2 or 3 under your cloak would become very annoying and probably get in your way if you're fighting. My $0.2 CAD.

Cheers,
O

[Sieglatan]

I always thought it would be fun to have a detachable mini-crossbow on the underside of a shield. Sort of like Gurunberd from Berserk!, but you know, legal. However, the core problem keeps going back to the whole infeasability thing.

[Tarin]

Lol...well it sounds like crossbows are pretty pointless under the current rules. But uh....what if you took a bow, mounted a handle and a stock on it, and held it like a crossbow (except you'd fire it like a bow, with no trigger involved).....would that be legal? Caus if you ask me, crossbows are much better looking.

[Caleidah]

...Berserk...infeasible...

I see no issues with this at all...

[Nibenon]

a bow, mounted a handle and a stock on it, and held it like a crossbow (except you'd fire it like a bow, with no trigger involved)

sounds like an abomination to me...
just use a bow like it was meant to be used and how history has proven it to be effective, no need for a cross-bow/bow thingy

[Tiberius]

I think it would be funny to see. the only reason x-bows are any good in bel is to have for close quarter fighting. The x-bows are set up to be half draw so the closer you are the better. I used one at Rag this year during Osgiliath in the line and it was great. the only down fall was that i couldn't fire all arrows only the bolts made for the x-bow.

[Erutious Dracuni]

In my old clan we had a group that went rogue, about 5 people calling them selves Clan Chelchares, who used these bow. My old clan leader could usually outshoot them with a bow but after a few times of (cough) being shot in the face with those little bolts it was decided that they would no longer be used. They also presented the problem of aim. These things are nasty at close range, You come in on a guy with a scimitar who has his arm behind his back and think "Alright, someones lost an arm, easy kill." and he pulls the not dead arm out and blasts you in the forehead with a tiny cross bow it kinda sucks. At a distance though, not so much. You have about 5 bolts fired early laying in the middle of the field as they didnt quite go as far as intended. The other problem is they missfire.... A LOT. Having owned one for a number of years I finally tossed it in favor of a compact bow. You are more likely to shoot yourself in the leg while running or have the cord flop over the bolt and the bolt go no where. And the pull comes as low as 25 pounds but even that was pretty weak. There a nasty surprise, but the chances are good the thing will miss fire, shoot you in the leg, or not go far enough.
Ever went to the ER at 5 in the afternoon with a tiny plastic bolt bolt in your leg cause the stupid thing missfired hanging off your waist? Not a good time

[No'Vak]

I would have been extremely angry at him for faking an injury.

Since you know, if you do that you have it.

[Sieglatan]

Ever went to the ER at 5 in the afternoon with a tiny plastic bolt bolt in your leg cause the stupid thing missfired hanging off your waist? Not a good time

When I was a beginning fighter, prancing about with a shinai with the SCA lights division of my high school, one of our 'veteran' members decided to surprise our leader with a brand new projectile weapon.... So we started practice as usual with marching and running drills, when we see this guy setting something up on the far end of the field, covering it with a sheet. We stopped, and waited for him to unveil his new 'superweapon'...
It was a rocket.
An Estes rocket that used 120psi compressed air to achieve thrust. He had mounted the thing on a telescope stand, allowing it a fair degree of control over angle and traverse. The rocket itself had a ****-head foam cover culled from pipe insulation. After laughing at it for a good minute, the leader failed it without getting within throwing distance of the contraption. He then turned and started to walk away.
We began training again, when we heard a loud pop and a shrill whistling. I turned to see that the vet thought it would be fun to shoot the rocket anyways- at the leader. The flying marital aid screamed close enough by the leader's head that it grazed the hair on the side of his head, and then, at a distance of about 500 feet, buried itself into the ground, its r-rated head sinking into grass six inches. Upon inspection, the sharp pointed tip of the rocket had sliced completely through the single layer of foam, looking like a lawn dart.
I have yet to see someone screamed at with greater rage and conviction since.
oh, and the 'vet' never came back

[Rasheab]

[No'Vak]

Imho that would be very acceptable to have beat him down with fisticuffs.

[Tiberius]

Ever went to the ER at 5 in the afternoon with a tiny plastic bolt bolt in your leg cause the stupid thing missfired hanging off your waist? Not a good time

no cause you don't hang it in a firing position unless you are mildly retarded, and on that note wear armour and no plastic things are gonna send you to the ER.

[No'Vak]

That is the **** dumbest reason I have ever heard to wear armor.

[Arrakis]

Real-world protection is the dumbest reason you've ever heard to wear functional armor?

[varadin]

Real-world protection is the dumbest reason you've ever heard to wear functional armor?

Wait its not only for looks? MY FANTASY WORLD IS CRUSHED

[No'Vak]

Why the **** are you getting your own plastic **** in your leg.

I don't know, I guess it strikes a cord with me.

[Azgarehta]

I'm pretty sure that crossbows can be made safer through more rigorous testing, but only if they are taken under experimental status and the current rules scrapped. That way, we'll have some way to experiment with them locally without weapons checkers failing them for 15# rule.

[No'Vak]

You can already experiment with them locally, the BoW isn't some contractually binding agreement that makes you use its rules at practice.

As long as your realm is cool with it.

Don't you already do stabs and some other things different in Arnor?

Evidence.

[Sir James]

I use this exact crossbow, and with some modifications it can be extremely effective. I just removed the sights and put a belt clip in their place, and then I added a notch on the shelf to make the trigger stiffer and prevent misfires. I just stick it on my belt when I'm fighting sword and shield and pull it out when I see an easy target.

It passed at War of the Ring this year (they just did a hit test), and it was a whole lot of fun to use at a big event.

I even did a test video on this crossbow a few years ago: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 818902933#

[Kraesh]

I even did a test video on this crossbow a few years ago: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 818902933#

Aww.. I was getting excited for a hit test on a face at 2 ft. :p

Anyway, that sounds like a lot of fun to have a short range, I ought to get one.

-Kraesh

[Tiercel]

Ever went to the ER at 5 in the afternoon with a tiny plastic bolt bolt in your leg cause the stupid thing missfired hanging off your waist? Not a good time

Better that than to have a tiny plastic bolt (bolt) in your buddy's eye. If your weapon is going to pierce skin, it shouldn't be on the field.

[kennth]

Would a crossbow like this be legal?



This particular model is 50 lbs draw so I'd have to figure out how to fix that....but assuming it was weak enough, there isn't any size specifications in the rules. More importantly, it's a single handed bow, and the pistol-style design might be considered too "modern"?

For example could you have 2 or 3 of these pre-loaded, tucked under your cloak? (they're pretty cheap, so that wouldn't be prohibitively expensive).

Cool,, I like your crossbow, it's great.

[Peregrine]

Would a crossbow like this be legal?



This particular model is 50 lbs draw so I'd have to figure out how to fix that....but assuming it was weak enough, there isn't any size specifications in the rules. More importantly, it's a single handed bow, and the pistol-style design might be considered too "modern"?

For example could you have 2 or 3 of these pre-loaded, tucked under your cloak? (they're pretty cheap, so that wouldn't be prohibitively expensive).

Cool,, I like your crossbow, it's great.

it was cooler in june 2010

[Zee]

On a vaguely related note. Does anyone know why we're going by the draw weight and not the ft per second the missile if traveling. Seems it'd be easier and safer to chrono bows and crossbows like you do paint ball guns. Could probably use the same equipment

[Caleidah]

The two reasons that come to mind immediately:

Chronos are expensive. The current method of checking draw weight on a bow is fairly inexpensive (fish scale or similar tool).

You can't check the safety of an arrow with a chrono. You still have to shoot it against someone to be certain that it is safe for the field.

[Zee]

The two reasons that come to mind immediately:

Chronos are expensive. The current method of checking draw weight on a bow is fairly inexpensive (fish scale or similar tool).

You can't check the safety of an arrow with a chrono. You still have to shoot it against someone to be certain that it is safe for the field.

A handheld chrono can be picked up for about $50-60, aim it would definately be safer to have a xft per second rule for mechanically driven missiles than a draw weight. Would also give you a starting point for related weapons like atlatl or slings if folks ever wanted them to help chucking javvies/rocks.

Chrono would definately need to be responsibility of the archer though.

[Oznog]

I'm pretty sure that crossbows can be made safer through more rigorous testing, but only if they are taken under experimental status and the current rules scrapped. That way, we'll have some way to experiment with them locally without weapons checkers failing them for 15# rule.

It doesn't require a ton of research here. I already covered the details on what it takes to meet the standard of a Belegarth arrow full-drawn from a 35#*" bow from 20ft away.

The two reasons that come to mind immediately:

Chronos are expensive. The current method of checking draw weight on a bow is fairly inexpensive (fish scale or similar tool).

You can't check the safety of an arrow with a chrono. You still have to shoot it against someone to be certain that it is safe for the field.

A handheld chrono can be picked up for about $50-60, aim it would definately be safer to have a xft per second rule for mechanically driven missiles than a draw weight. Would also give you a starting point for related weapons like atlatl or slings if folks ever wanted them to help chucking javvies/rocks.

Chrono would definately need to be responsibility of the archer though.

Chronos are nice... I have one I used quite a bit. You need the proper lighting conditions to make an optical one like the Chrony work, but they work well.

You'd need to use a standard-weight test arrow that could be fired from any bow. Weight significantly changes arrow speed. Although technically the energy is the same when you shoot a heavier arrow slower, in general lighter/faster construction is much safer in my experience. You wouldn't want a standard which didn't take weight into account because then you could pass heavier bows by just putting on a lead-packed arrow to slow down the shot.

The basic formula, BTW, is a bow is basically fixed energy, and E=1/2*mass*velocity^2. So for a bow of half the poundage but the same weight of arrow, speed will be 0.707 of the baseline bow, not half. Also doubling the weight will decrease speed to 0.707 of the first shot on the same bow.

[calebmonkey]

I wouldn't allow it,I've thought about doing the same thing but 2 things come to mind.
One, after watching your hit test those things fly way too crazy after a head shot,look at where the guy next to him in a line fight would be

second, a bow is rather large next to that crossbow and so you know your dealing with an archer from far away,hell even a full size xbow is clearly visable not so with your little pistol pete plan,see your going to want to draw itright at the last second which is almost exactly when someones charging you and some of those nice hard pointy cut into a eye face whatever and someone goes to the hospital ,you would be just as effective with well made rocks and a whole lot safer IMO

archery in this sport is dangerous enough with out cranking it up a notch

[wwebb]

That was an awesome invention right there dude.
But isn't to small to hit a large object vulnerably? I think that it isn't enough to penetrate a lot of damage to someone or anything else that comes rushing to you.

But with regards to legality of that thing, I might wonder that it might be also illegal because it could also cause a damage on someone else.