Hulk hand shield

[DJordan]

I am making a shield modeld to be a big power fist lookin thing. I'm going to PD it and have fingers and what not on it. Right now I have about 2/5 of it done.
I'm gonna put some pics up of my progress later.

[Dawken]

So your pretty much going to make one like they sell in the store?

[DJordan]

pretty much yes, but it will be bel legal and wont fall apart.

[Dawken]

Should make it look like a golem hand that would be tight.

[DJordan]

Thats kinda the way I was lookin to go. I might carve out some cracks in the wrist part, make it look like rock breakin apart.

[DJordan]

Pics up
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?id=13 ... id=2100747

[Squire Moxk]

2.2.1. Shields and Bucklers are rigid objects that are padded on the front and sides, and are equipped with handles or straps. A Shield may not be constructed in a manner that would confer the advantage of unbreakable armor.

Its really well done and cool looking but fails for belegarth.

[Richard le Gris]

I'd think the 12" minimum dimension would be a more likely fail point? I mean, two red hits will still break it... which leads to a safety issue. Purp, would you really want people cranking red hits on that? Think about how it'd torque your elbow and shoulder. This isn't to say that the thing isn't turning out pretty bad-ass looking, but that it might be better served being a monster weapon in Amtgard.

[DJordan]

When its finished it will have the 12 inch demension, and honestly I don't think reds would be that big of a deal the thing is suppriesingly solid. I wouldn't be fighting reds head on with this anyway.
As for the unbreakable armour thing, that's debateable. Shure its a big gauntlet, but armour is made so you can hold a weapon while wearing, this you can't. What about back shields, thats like having "unbreakable" armour on your back. But, reds can break shields, so it's not unbreakable.
I just made something that I think is turning out to look pretty * cool, and will be way fun to use. Hopefully people don't get to anal about it at events, cuz it won't be used much.
Thanks for the feedback guys.

[Cade]

Dude...if you get this thing to pass, i am so making a Hellboy Fist shield.


I would bet you the arm part passes the 12 inch rule. Since curved shields are measured along the face of the shield, not the diameter, as long as you make the arm part big enough to have 12 inches of foam when measured around...your golden. LOL

[DJordan]

Yea the face of it is 13 inches.

[No'Vak]

Its illegal because it wraps around your arm. If this was legal you could just stick your hand in a rolled up camp pad.

Seriously, unbreakable armor. If I hit you in the arm it won't count ever unless its two reds.

[Tails]

ad a cupholder

[DJordan]

Seriously, unbreakable armor. If I hit you in the arm it won't count ever unless its two reds.

If I hit you in the back while you're wearing a backshield it wont ever count unless its two reds.
Quite a few people have backshields that are strapped on pretty good, so if the shield did get broken it would be hard as hell to drop it. At least with my fist, if it did get broken, I can drop it real quick, it's just a punch shield.
Plus, where I'm at, its cold as hell and nobody wants to fight, so I'm tryin out some new stuff for Bel.
Is this questionable as a legal shield? Yes. I know that, but whos gonna be butthurt if I use this instead of making a 3' round shield to hide behind?
I really like fighting with smaller punch shields, they make me more aggressive. So when I was messin around with this I figured it's just like a smaller punch with more depth, and a more badass look. That made me want to actually do it. The idea of having a big * fist for a shield gets me all jacked up and ready to do some serious sword fightin.
I'm not trying to change the game or the rules. I'm tryin to find ways to make me more aggressive, and be able to adapt to using new gear quickly to in turn make myself a better fighter.
So, my question to everyone is, who is this going to hurt if I use it and why?

[Tails]

If I hit you in the back while you're wearing a backshield it wont ever count unless its two reds.

But a back shield doesn't wrap around his/her torso.

Quite a few people have backshields that are strapped on pretty good, so if the shield did get broken it would be hard as hell to drop it. At least with my fist, if it did get broken, I can drop it real quick, it's just a punch shield.

That third hit kills him/her.

Is this questionable as a legal shield? Yes. I know that, but whos gonna be butthurt if I use this instead of making a 3' round shield to hide behind?

It's gonna be illegal, I hate to say it. I like it, I think it'd be cool. If it passes, let me know. I'll be the first person to copy off of you. Who's gonna be butt hurt? The people who see this as breaking the rules.

[Richard le Gris]

To be fair, I'm pretty sure this is Dag, but this is a wrap-around back/body shield being worn at what looks to be a decent-sized event ><

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid= ... =538001411

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid= ... =538001411

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid= ... =538001411

The "Hand of Destruction" offends me a LOT less than that. If the encasing aspect is a problem, I'd say just cut a channel ~4-6" wide out of the inside arm and replace with straps, as then it covers little more than a regular shield. Besides, how often do you take a shield arm from below the elbow? Really, it is just a hockey glove turned up to 11, without the ability to use a weapon in it.

My apologies if those links don't work. If they consistently don't work I'll do something about it when I get home.

[Dawken]

Wow those body shields are the freaking cheese.

[Cade]

That is Drunken Bob.

he made that shield to demonstrate the hole in the rules when you measure shields by the diameter instead of the circumference. The whole thing is basically a joke. He can't even get up when he is kicked over and he will be the first one to tell you that its more of a liability than its worth, but he made his point by getting it passed at Rag i believe.

But his point is well taken, and yes shields shouldn't convey unbreakable armor, but a back shield does just that. So ill be the first one to pass this on a local level if someone shows up with it. I think its great personally. it both demonstrates another absurd loophole in the rules and it points out the double standard of back shields all at the same time.

[Squire Moxk]

Post things from dag does not prove precedence in Belegarth. If that shield showed up in bel it would be failed. This gauntlet fails for being unbreakable armor, because that is the method in which it was constructed. Its intent was to encase the arm.

2.2.1. Shields and Bucklers are rigid objects that are padded on the front and sides, and are equipped with handles or straps. A Shield may not be constructed in a manner that would confer the advantage of unbreakable armor.
2.2.2. Armor is protective body covering, consisting of period materials.


Normal back shields are not unbreakable armor because they do encase the body and are not intended act as armor, also back shields do not fail because of

3.5.2. Shields may be used in any reasonable manner and still be considered a Shield.

However this does not apply to shields which already fail for 2.2.1.

[Tiercel]

These pics should be used on the wiki to illustrate an example of a failing "shield" constructed as unbreakable armor.

[DJordan]

This gauntlet fails for being unbreakable armor, because that is the method in which it was constructed. Its intent was to encase the arm.

That, is the point.
A gauntlet is an armored glove, but you can hold a weapon while wearing it. You can't while using my shield.

My thing with the back shields is not the whole wrap around thing, its the fact that they tend to cover the entire back, meaning a entire target area has "unbreakable armour". My sheild covers 98% of my lower arm, but not the whole arm, the entire top half of my arm is unprotected.

[No'Vak]

1.1.4

Creative interpretation of the rules to gain any advantage is discouraged. These rules are intentionally sparse to allow for ease of use. The Marshal, according to these rules, and medieval foam combat precedent, settles all disputes.

[LoganSteele]

Worst case scenario you end up with with a RP piece to use for looks with Bele (and maybe something usable for your local realm and other groups) if the heralds at each event fail it. Bring a back up "normal" shield. I hope you finish this project as it looks amazing and i cant wait to see pics of it finished! I would pass it at my realm as long as you took arm hits probubly (im sure it would be hard to feel hits through 3-4 layers of foam though).

[Richard le Gris]

Moxk, if the encasing is the issue, would such an item no longer fail if it had a gap in the foam wide enough for the arm to easily pass through it? Just wanting your opinion. This is to say nothing about the arguments that such a thing is less useful than a normal shield (seriously, the coverage is tiny), and the "It can't be armor - it isn't made of legal armor materials." I can see both sides of the argument about this project, and have nothing invested in it, so I'm just curious. Yes, I am being punchy. Ultimately, the rule No'Vak quoted is the one that carries the day at the park in question. If I ever made such a thing I'd only use it in Amtgard, and call it a "madu".

Also, it is good to hear that the cheese sheath was made as a joke/to prove a point about the brokeness of certain rules. That being said, I would be tempted to just kick someone over who was wearing such at thing >.>

[No'Vak]

Really with 1.1.4 its not really a hole but yeah.

Unbreakable armor, it acts like armor, unbreakable armor.

[fishstix]

just my two cents but it's just as unbreakable armor any other shield and even if someone with a normal shield has terrible shield form (like me) you're not going to be hitting their forearm anyway. if anything this shield will leave his upper arm more open without giving him any advantage over a normal shield.

in short: it gives him no advantage over other shields.
it'll be a disadvantage to use it because of less cover
it's just as destructible as normal shields

that being said i don't see why you're all so opposed to Purp having a safe but inferior shield other than the fact that it's not what you've always used.

[Soo Ma Tai]

Wrong, I have hit peoples forearms behind their shields. What you can do Purp, is build it as a strap. With the back part left open, and the front/face molded to look like a hulk hand.

[No'Vak]

just my two cents but it's just as unbreakable armor any other shield and even if someone with a normal shield has terrible shield form (like me) you're not going to be hitting their forearm anyway. if anything this shield will leave his upper arm more open without giving him any advantage over a normal shield.

in short: it gives him no advantage over other shields.
it'll be a disadvantage to use it because of less cover
it's just as destructible as normal shields

that being said i don't see why you're all so opposed to Purp having a safe but inferior shield other than the fact that it's not what you've always used.

Because its against the rules and against precedent.

[Mannajax]

I think the answer would not be an enclosed hand, but a strap and punch put together. You'd have a forearm length, rectanular strap shield (parrallel with arm instead or perpendicular) curved around your arm (only halfway to appease checkers), cap it at the end with a punch shield. And if said punch shield happens to be decorated in a hand shaped carving, then it does. This isn't two shields, but a hybrid. Not indesructable armor, as it would be open in the back. It could easily be dropped if destroyed. Size requires would need met. But essentially you're just making a capped strap with fancy decor. I don't think it's manipulation of rules so much as being imaginative. Just dont make it a tube you stick your hand in.

[fishstix]

Because its against the rules and against precedent.

i disagree that it should be against the rules, but both sides have arguments there. but i don't know how solid "against precedent" can really be. i hear a lot of "we should be advancing technique and technology for the game" while other voices say "but it's not what we've done before"

[Dawken]

Make the whole backside leather strap like said before, coreless strap buckler.

[DJordan]

Obviosly there are people for it, and people against it. I am going to take it to events anyway just in case it gets passed, if it doesn't it'll be garb. Like I said I wouldn't use it much anyway so I will have my other shield with me.
I could cut it out on the back side so it would be more likely to pass. I'm not going to though, if it doesn't pass now I don't think cutting out a side would solve that problem. I only think that because people have already made their minds up about it, it's sad but true.
On a completely different note. It is done except for the PD. My camera is dead butt pics will be up tonight. It is suuuper fun to mess around with, I can punch my 7 year old brother with it as hard as I can and he just laughs.
Thanks again for all the feedback guys.

[Cade]

You can quote the rules all you want, but the problem you have is that its not any more against the rules than a backshield. Specially since a curved back shield that extends up above the shoulders is unbreakable armor that protects more than just the back.

Lets take a look at the only real argument you have against this shield

Creative interpretation of the rules to gain any advantage is discouraged. These rules are intentionally sparse to allow for ease of use. The Marshal, according to these rules, and medieval foam combat precedent, settles all disputes.

The first part...Creative interpretation of the rules to gain any advantage is discouraged. There is no advantage to this shield other than looking badass. Its not more effective, and in fact its a hindrance. Again, no advantage.

The statement Medieval Foam Combat Precedent is probably the biggest crock in the entire rulebook. If anyone followed this we would not be using...Curved shields, flails, fiberglass, graphite, progressive density foams, or basically anything other than couch foam, duct tape, and pvc.

If he wants to do this and use it, i see ZERO problems with it according to the rules. Even if you built this shield with a side open to fit your arm through so you can easily drop it, you still won't be able to wrap shot his arm with anything but a minimum dimension flail, and maybe not even then. A shield strapped to the arm is by nature an unbreakable piece of armor.

Now if this was a chest plate that was molded out of foam and he called it a shield, then you have a case for creative advantage. But not in this case.

[DJordan]

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=2 ... 0156&saved
Pics added of the thing finished without PD.
P.S. it's a punch weapon now.

[Big King Jimmy]

I would like to point out the humor of all the newer fighters saying it passes and all the 5+ year vets saying it fails.

BTW, it fails.

[No'Vak]

No one cares, didn't read it

Stopped reading after you wouldn't drop the back shield argument. It fails.

[Caleidah]

Purp, it's cool as all hell, but I wouldn't let it go through unless it was significantly open on one side. I'd say to just use it as a "* around" type thing when fighting single blue. Take anything that hits it to the arm, just use it to look cool.

[Forkbeard]

Sorry bro, no.
But we'll probly let you use it at Samhain. We will for sure if you make make 2 and paint yourself green. For a few battles at least.
That Bob guy's barrel shield is full of fail, but I'd let him use it for a day for laughs just the same.
But just for laughs and just for a day.
FB

[DJordan]

Yea its not really a "serious" thing. I like it alot, its cool as hell and way fun to mess around with. It'll probly be used most for stumbly night fightin at chaos this year.
But it was a good winter project.
Thanks again for bein * and shootin me down again haha.

[No'Vak]

* didn't happen until you ignored it, but you're welcome.

[Forkbeard]

Settle down, salty pants.
They only let me use my galdiator net in the pit fights at Chaos. It's just the way it is.
I think you should sculpt some round tops for the fingers and some roundness for the back of thehand out of softer foam. It wouls finish the look and make it safer to really punch people with. You might as well make it over the top.
FB

[Todo]

just my two cents but it's just as unbreakable armor any other shield and even if someone with a normal shield has terrible shield form (like me) you're not going to be hitting their forearm anyway. if anything this shield will leave his upper arm more open without giving him any advantage over a normal shield.

in short: it gives him no advantage over other shields.
it'll be a disadvantage to use it because of less cover
it's just as destructible as normal shields

that being said i don't see why you're all so opposed to Purp having a safe but inferior shield other than the fact that it's not what you've always used.

Most Incorrect Post of the Year? In the On Topic category, of course.

[DJordan]

I'm just playin, I gotta give you guys **** somehow cuz you my buddiez.
I think I will end up doin some more sculpting on it there's something thats a little "off".

[Arrakis]

Purp, you're a lot of fun.

Punch 'em in the nuts.

[fishstix]

I would like to point out the humor of all the newer fighters saying it passes and all the 5+ year vets saying it fails.

BTW, it fails.

Experience and reason my old nemeses. I see we meet again.

you have a point here. argument ceded.

[Dacian]

That Bob guy's barrel shield is full of fail, but I'd let him use it for a day for laughs just the same.
But just for laughs and just for a day.
FB

ugh, they let him use it pretty much all of Rag 2 years ago....

I doubt he was trying to show them the folly of their ways.

Although if that really was the case, then props for being an in person troll.

[Soo Ma Tai]

Bob made that shield specifically to show loopholes in the Dag rules about shield dimensions, so yeah, Bob is kind of an in person Troll.

[Cedric]

Purp wins, the rest of you guys need to learn to have some fun with your nerf bat wars!

[Alunsun]

Bob made that shield specifically to show loopholes in the Dag rules about shield dimensions, so yeah, Bob is kind of an in person Troll.

This. Ask him about his knock- knock jokes.

[Cheeseheart]

There's a girl at our realm who we named The Hulk...maybe she'd want to buy the hand shield from you, or commission you for a set of two...I think she's a rich kid. She's also about 5'0" and looks to weigh around 100 lbs, so you can see why we call her The Hulk.

There's also another kid who really likes HellBoy, maybe he'd want it.

In any case, I think we'll find a way to let it on the field at the Battle for the Ring.