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 Post subject: Curved staff, ie: bat'leth
PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2011 3:32 am 
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Joined: Sun May 15, 2011 10:17 pm
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Location: Bay area, California
Started Fighting: 0- 0-2011
Realm: Sonrai
Favorite Fighting Styles: S&B.
So... I was thinking, a dangerous thought.
Staffs are useless- they can't get past a shield, can block decently, but can only strike with one end at a time, so an experienced Florentine can kick their can.

So what about a staff curved on both ends?

with striking surface/tips only on the ends, as per normal for a staff.

Now, the above weapon is impossible to construct.

However, something like this, while difficult, would not be impossible:


I'd be making it by taking a very flexible staff and adding a (padded, obviously non striking) crossbar to remove the flex and keep it bent at the angle I want it at. It'd still have some durability issues. How much I wouldn't know till I tried to make it.

In other words, something like a bat'leth. I know I'd definitely be calling it a bat'leth, even though it lacks many of the striking surfaces/ornamentation of a bat'leth.

I'm speculating that:
Florentine could still probably kick it's can. But it wouldn't be useless.
It'd make a semi-scythe like weapon when used from one end.

It'd still be a decent blocker, and could probably scoop up spears really easily, then pivot around them to attack.

Depending on the angle/size you might be able to pivot around enemy weapon/shields. Which would be a little different dynamic than Florentine.

So that's the thought.

My first assumption was of course, that someone else had tried it already, and it had crashed and burned in some manner. But I've checked the forums already: none of the proposed bat'leths really made any effort to conform to the rules. They were asking if they could use weapons developed in a "just playing around" setting into belegarth, or asking for help making specifically non conforming weapons. It doesn't look an attempt to make something trying to conform has been made before.

I've researched to the best of my ability if the above design is legal, and while there are possible points of ambiguity, there are no smoking guns.

It's not a prohibited weapon, in any way shape or form.

This design like it could plausibly conform to all criteria listed under
"1.4.6. Double-ended Weapons must conform to all of the following"

The murkyness comes in here
"1.1. Definitions
1.1.7. Double-ended Weapon . A Weapon approximating a medieval staff."

but it's murky on if as a definition, 1.1.7. is a description or a constraint. If it's the constraint: it must be approximating a staff, the idea is toast. If it's a reference description, so at a glance you know not to let in double ended daggers, or nunchaku, I'm ok.

It is interpreted on wiki to be "The Staff is the only legal Double-Ended weapon in Belegarth." But there too, it's also unclear if that's descriptive (as no one makes anything that conforms to 1.1.7 that isn't a staff.) Also I need to know if people treat weapon entries like that as scripture or background knowledge.

So I'm looking to ask:

1) Does this design look like it'd be worth doing? Do you think the chance of it being effective outweighs the construction/durability issues?

2) Any smoking guns pointing to illegality? I understand that, like most things, it'll comes down to what the people on the ground decide at the moment, (or a rules clarification in the appropriate section, but I wanted to float the idea informally before I took it there) but I wouldn't want to construct it if there is a clear precidence or rule against it.

Clarification on how "cannon" the wiki text is held would be nice though.

3) As you could probably tell from this post's mere existence, I am a new player, exploring the possibilities. I hope I'm more rational than most.

I'm integrating with my group, and the rules system, but I have had outside experience, by "just playing around" with my brothers, and also in fencing so I'm not totally green: I've got say, 40% of a experienced fighter's skill, and maybe 15% of a leader's fighting ability. I've crafted boffers before.

I can see two angles where it might not be popular: those who rightfully hate the staff because it's basically useless, yet people cling to it anyway, who think I'm "one of those" and those going for a more strict historical feeling, cause this idea kinda doesn't follow it. So I can see there might be opposition, especially if I'm annoying about things.

I still don't know enough about the culture of Belegarth to know if what I'm thinking about is out of line. Given that I have decent, though not stellar fighting skills, will I get culturally looked down/scorned if I try making this thing, say, 3 months down the road?

But I thought the thought anyway, and I thought I'd ask some people to try to get a better sense of things...

 Post subject: Re: Curved staff, ie: bat'leth
PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2011 11:20 am 
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Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2009 3:21 am
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Favorite Fighting Styles: Beating up cheaters
Really if you made it like any other quarter staff, cylindrical striking surfaces, and it didn't flex/passed hit/everything else it wouldn't be illegal.

Now that crosspiece seems like it would make it a punching weapon, since you would be grabbing it perpendicular to the striking surface.

But in all honesty, staves in our game are really quite weak, almost any other weapon combination is better.


Elebrim wrote:
...I question why lately it seems like we must do everything that Amtgard does or else we are no longer the best fighters. I don't think it's right or necessary.

 Post subject: Re: Curved staff, ie: bat'leth
PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2011 11:31 pm 
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Wow.This is the wrong forum for this. It is not historical nor is it tactical.
Take it to foamsmithing so we can make fun of you properly.
This is a dumb **** idea.

Warlord of the Western Uruk-Hai

Don't call it a comeback
I been here for years
Rockin my peers and puttin suckas in fear

 Post subject: Re: Curved staff, ie: bat'leth
PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2011 10:54 am 
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Though breaking this in half would be funny to see.

Mefit the Geek wrote:
You'll get what I give you and like it!

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