Belegarth

by **Forkbeard** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 10:30 am

I need a **** curved sword core that won't break.
They was a guy as chaos with a kevlar compsite core of some kind that he felt reall goo about and was expensive. He said he'd let me know if it worked out.
I cant remeber who had it.
Well, what the ****? Did it break?
Is there any other, even expensive curved cor4e I can get that wont break? PVC is ****. So don't bother telling me about curving it.
My Samurai kit is nearly done, but there ain't no Katanas happenin.
Help a ninja out.
FB

by **Sieglatan** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 12:47 pm

I was planning on making a new katana when I got back to my "workshop" out of a fiberglass core using a variation of an older method:

Older method- split fiberglass core lengthwise with a really sharp wedge- preferably a combat knife or something similar. Alternatively, two square lengths work, uncut. Build a bending jig by screwing three screws in a line on a plank of wood, with about an inch of the * sticking out. Then get a really high strength epoxy (anything above 1000 lbs per inch of holding power), glue the two halves back together, and weave into the bending jig while the thing dries. I did one sword like this, and it lasted a good two months of heavy fighting before snapping straight.

Experimental method- same as above, but instead of glue, wind rejoined fiberglass through bending jig, and then tape fiberglass to the * posts. Then drill small holes through the halves while the entire thing is bent, every foot or so. Then hammer steel nails through the holes, clip, mushroom, and hammer the utter **** out of it. That way, instead of glue holding your curve together, steel is doing it, plus the intermittent undrilled, unglued sections will still allow the thing to flex. Lie to weapon inspectors about having metal in the core, ???, profit.

Again, experimental, as in, I've only thought about it, but I have a bunch of 3/4" fiberglass lying around- I think its worth a shot, when I get back!

Alternatively, you could order that curved fiberglass thing that Krieg Jaeger used to make his epic scythe blade and cut it to a sword length. I think he said that it was originally used to practice rifle drills in marching formations...

by **Cedric** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 12:57 pm

Orren made the kevlar sword, but I have not heard if it broke or not. He is in Oregon now I believe so maybe one of those cats would know.

by **Mannajax** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 1:19 pm

Another theoretical method I've been pondering but haven't had time or money to try goes like this. It involves two driveway markers. Bend them into a jig previously mentioned the gorilla glue/epoxy the cores together and over that gorilla tape the snot out of it to it doesn't twist or bend and cures with extra hold afterwards.
You should probably pretape at the top of the handle so that stays straight with the bend happening after.
The plus to this is that if it doesn't work, it cost less than $5 to try. It sounds reasonable to me though.

by **No'Vak** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 1:25 pm

Mannajax wrote:Another theoretical method I've been pondering but haven't had time or money to try goes like this. It involves two driveway markers. Bend them into a jig previously mentioned the gorilla glue/epoxy the cores together and over that gorilla tape the snot out of it to it doesn't twist or bend and cures with extra hold afterwards.
You should probably pretape at the top of the handle so that stays straight with the bend happening after.
The plus to this is that if it doesn't work, it cost less than $5 to try. It sounds reasonable to me though.

The memory in the markers would always be trying to pull straight that way though, I don't know how good that would work. And DAP doesn't do well on duct tape, I've never tried gorilla tape though.

by **Kraesh** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 2:53 pm

Things you need:
-Infra-red thermometer
-Length of fiberglass 2-3" longer than sword
-Piece of rope that is thinner than fiberglass
-Heat gun (You can get one at hobby lobby for ~$20
-Some sort of weight that you can tie to the end of the rope
-One of your railroad tie anvils

Drill a hole in the excess 2-3" of the fiberglass and tie the weighted rope to the end.

Set the end 8" of the fiberglass (or whatever handle/pommel length you want) on the table (or some other raised platform) and put the railroad tie on top of it to hold it in place.

Now, take your heat gun and your infra-red thermometer and get ready for tedious work.

Heat the fiberglass up evenly across the surface, constantly checking the temperature, until it is at 150 degrees. Keep it there until the fiberglass bends a bit past the curvature that you want.

Remove weight, let fiberglass cool, and cut of the 2-3" excess that you don't need because there's a hole in it.

I haven't personally done this but I've heard from some people that it works. Try it out and make sure to let me know how it went.

-Kraesh

by **bo1** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 9:35 pm

intredasting.

by **Cade** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 6:23 am

Wouldn't heat make the fiberglass more apt to shattering?

I heard bad things happen when you heat and bend fiberglass.

by **Kraesh** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 11:00 am

I had that method told to me by people who bend fiberglass regularly and they haven't had issues. I would believe that it would decrease the durability of the fiberglass, but if you just put a subtle bend in it like a katana it shouldn't be too bad. Plus when it cools it's going to spring back to its original shape leaving about half of the bend that you made.

-Kraesh

by **Caleidah** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 12:21 pm

It would make more sense to keep the weight on it until it cooled, that way you could get it to the shape that you want (perhaps a bit more) and have it be a bit more reliable.

by **Visitor** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 8:19 pm

Perhaps you've already considered this and discarded it for your own reasons, but have you experimented with shaping wood cores?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bokken

I have no experience making one, but I've handled a bokken and walked through a training lesson with them, and I was impressed with how sturdy yet light they were. With sufficient padding, I think you can get the effect you're looking for.

by **Kraesh** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 8:34 pm

Just a simple word to let you know since you are a visitor and all. Wood cores in Belegarth don't stand for more than a couple weeks of practice. Definitely not worth the time or effort.

-Kraesh

by **Visitor** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 10:55 pm

I wouldn't be surprised if it could be made to work, but I'll yield to your experience. How about taking something like this and using it for a core?

(It's polypropylene, which should be legal, right?)

http://www.martialartweapons.net/cold-s ... g-weapons/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUhDpQxN ... re=related

by **Caleidah** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 11:18 pm

Stop your attempts at advertising. They would require an inordinate amount of padding to make them work. While they COULD work, I'm sure there are better cores.

by **Arrakis** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 11:32 am

Forkbeard wrote:I need a **** curved sword core that won't break.
They was a guy as chaos with a kevlar compsite core of some kind that he felt reall goo about and was expensive. He said he'd let me know if it worked out.
I cant remeber who had it.
Well, what the ****? Did it break?
Is there any other, even expensive curved cor4e I can get that wont break? PVC is ****. So don't bother telling me about curving it.
My Samurai kit is nearly done, but there ain't no Katanas happenin.
Help a ninja out.
FB

1" curved rattan core.

Sieglatan wrote:Experimental method- same as above, but instead of glue, wind rejoined fiberglass through bending jig, and then tape fiberglass to the * posts. Then drill small holes through the halves while the entire thing is bent, every foot or so. Then hammer steel nails

Hella illegal, bro.

by **frazzgnarth** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 11:53 pm

Arrakis wrote:1" curved rattan core.

Forgive my ignorance but how/where would you go about getting that? Can't say I know much of anything about using rattan for a core.

by **Forkbeard** » Tue Mar 22, 2011 6:45 am

I dig what your sayin arrakis.
but i would hurt people with a rattan sword in bel. Im nervous about useing a 2 hander in sca where they are ready for it.
Also, it would be huge once it was padded.
fb

by **Peregrine** » Tue Mar 22, 2011 8:53 am

Find a cheap fiberglass bow and use the limb that should give you a subtle curve.

by **Arrakis** » Tue Mar 22, 2011 9:23 am

Forkbeard wrote:I dig what your sayin arrakis.
but i would hurt people with a rattan sword in bel. Im nervous about useing a 2 hander in sca where they are ready for it.
Also, it would be huge once it was padded.
fb

It wouldn't be any bigger than a padded-out bandpole, plus it'd flex more at that length than either fiberglass or bandshop (again making it easier to pad). The only thing you'd have to worry about was correct padding for the weight and, if you get a 1" scrap stick instead of a 1.25" useable SCA stick, the weight shouldn't be excessive (18 oz core at 4 feet, maybe?).

But Peregrine's idea is good, too.

by **Fitz Caliston** » Tue Mar 22, 2011 7:21 pm

I've had good success with heat bending Bamboo in Amtgard. The cores I was using (to keep it Amt-light) would not hold to Bel (especially in Forkbeards) hands but I'm sure we could find a bigger piece's that would. The thicker the bamboo is actually easier to get consistant bends then the uber light stuff I have used.... This is now one of those projects on my "I'd like to get around to working on that again someday" list.

by **Cade** » Wed Mar 23, 2011 6:17 am

I'm pretty sure any bamboo core small enough to get your hand around would not stand up to Forkbeard style abuse.

I do like the bow arm idea. I would be worried about the flex though.

by **Forkbeard** » Wed Mar 23, 2011 6:35 am

I don't believe in heating fiberglass. That **** is toxic and I believe it will make it brittle.
I'll talk to my sca dude when I see em about rattan, but I think it will fail for flex.
Bamboo ain't gonna work.
im thinking about a straight core in a curved faom blade. Katanas aren't curved all that much.
Fitz, what do you think about that?
fb

by **Soo Ma Tai** » Wed Mar 23, 2011 8:34 am

Anything I have ever mad curved used a straight core, and I made the foam be the curved part. Make a reg. single edge sword, add some shaped pieces to the back edge at the forte and tip, and a shaped piece in the middle of the blade side. Bingo, bango!!

by **Kyler_MT_amtguard** » Thu Mar 31, 2011 11:34 am

Forkbeard wrote:I need a **** curved sword core that won't break.
They was a guy as chaos with a kevlar compsite core of some kind that he felt reall goo about and was expensive. He said he'd let me know if it worked out.
I cant remeber who had it.
Well, what the ****? Did it break?
Is there any other, even expensive curved cor4e I can get that wont break? PVC is ****. So don't bother telling me about curving it.
My Samurai kit is nearly done, but there ain't no Katanas happenin.
Help a ninja out.
FB

i can get ahold of some bamboo with a natural bend to it already, probably a 4-5 ft rod for about $3..but id have to ship it aswell, pm me if interested

by **Phlebas** » Sun Apr 10, 2011 12:51 pm

the split fiberglass core thing sounded like a fun project, so i gave it a shot.

the proper bend is like optical illusion minimal, but the one i made by just shaping the foam never felt right. guess i'll see how this holds up.

by **Sieglatan** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 2:10 am

Here's how the core looked after I did the split fiberglass method-

And here's what the final sword ended up looking like- These are old (mid 2009), and, as I mentioned before, I only got about two months of hard fighting in before it snapped straight. The core and grip are still in good use, but as a single-edged straight blue/green.

I also had this idea- obtain a length of 1/2" round fiberglass, and a PVC pipe thin enough such that the fiberglass fits snugly inside of the pipe. Using a set jig, and hot water, do a slow form curve on the PVC, making sure the curve is a bit more dramatic than you want your final product to be. Then, after roughing up the skin of the fiberglass, and applying an expanding resin (gorilla glue) to the inside of the pipe, hammer the fiberglass into the pipe,

The idea is that the curve of the PVC will give the core the desired curve, but the fiberglass spine will grant enough flexibility that it will bend when struck hard, but not so much as to snap the core outright.

Its just an idea I might try out once I get some 1/2" fiberglass in. If it fails- ah well. If it succeeds- ah well.

by **Arrakis** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 7:31 am

Check this out: http://www.dagorhir.com/forums/index.ph ... #msg390755

by **Forkbeard** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 1:16 pm

Brilliant.
I need a 1/2" square core, STAT!
I can totaly do that.
I'm worried about the pommel lokking nice, though.
FB

by **Ignatius** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 1:33 pm

That is insanely awesome! Seriously seriously cool idea! Does he ever put up finished pics? I'm up to page 15 and haven't seen any photos of them all finished with pommels and I'd rather not scan through all 42 pages of the thread.

by **Arrakis** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 1:57 pm

No, he didn't, that I could see.

Forkbeard: I'd be really tempted to plane down the handle section of a piece of 1/2" round or bigger so that it's flat on the sides and just use that.

by **Ignatius** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 2:06 pm

That's too bad, I'd love to see how he handled the pommel.

by **jester kaiu** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 6:09 pm

just asking more for my own ideas. but what about making your own core out of fiberglass n resin set in a jig that you could either have it as a rectangular core or rounded? mind you iv never used this and im not sure what the break point would be on it but i know of someone who used it as a shield core n its held up for over 2 years now.

by **Kraesh** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 6:13 pm

Here's an idea for the pommel. Make is so that the core extends out the bottom of the handle, gorilla glue the core so it stays secure in the handle. Then make the pommel on the extended part of the core. Make it larger than you need out of eva or minicell foam and shape it to look like the end of the handle, eva and minicell both cut very cleanly and are easy to make look good, then PD the pommel up (I believe minicell is what Fitz uses as a skin for his PD shields).

-Kraesh

by **Forkbeard** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 6:57 am

1/2" round *" flexes out in less than one season. Square lasts forever.
I"ll use roubd for the knifs and short sword. But the katana needs to be red. That's only 8" longer than a real katana, and I am proportionatly larger than any japanese dude, so 48" seems perfect.
Fb

by **Arrakis** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:05 am

Oh, yeah, I didn't mean 1/2" planed for a Red. Like, for a wakizashi.

Plane down the handle section of some 3/4" round for a red.

by **Phlebas** » Thu Apr 14, 2011 10:50 am

i make aluminum trainer blades, and paracord grip wraps are the thing to do with that.

The paracord gets de-cored to make it flatten out a bit. The blue one has curved wood pieces to round out the flatness, then two different color strands of paracord for the wrap. The structure of the wrap holds it together pretty tightly, but it does need something on the top and bottom to keep it from spreading. the yellow one on the right just has a couple little notches at the start and end. For foam weapon, i use either some tire rubber strips or 6mm craft foam to make the core more oblong shaped, then wrap around some 2mm selfadhesive craft foam to make it more unified. The cord bites into that pretty well and tightens it up. If you don't do the twisting (which is sort of tricky and labor intensive), it settles into the diagonal pattern you can see on the long one.

by **Arrakis** » Thu Apr 14, 2011 10:58 am

Those look nice.

Why not just do a real tsuamaki wrap? They're pretty easy and you can use twill tape or flat shoelaces or whatever for it:

by **Phlebas** » Thu Apr 14, 2011 11:30 am

it's the same technique, just slightly different material. The extra thickness of the paracord gives some roundness to the grip. Wouldn't be useful if you're building off a wood grip that's already about right, but if you're trying to build up a bit from a narrower core, it helps. Also the cord folds are more raised, have more bite to them, and knife guys tend to be very interested in the problems of grip retention.

by **Arrakis** » Thu Apr 14, 2011 12:25 pm

Fair enough.

by **Sieglatan** » Tue May 17, 2011 11:54 pm

Thread necro again. I just had to try this out, and I'm actually pleased with the results for the most part-

The core on the far right is a 1/2" diameter fiberglass rod, and the one in the middle is a similar 42" length of fiberglass forced inside of a dramatically curved 80 schedule PVC pipe. The core has a lot less flex than a normal fiberglass core, but still flexes. To have this snap like a normal curved PVC pipe, one would also have to shatter the fiberglass spine. Onto building and battle testing!

I also wanted to know if anyone else had made progress with curved sword ideas/projects~

by **Forkbeard** » Wed May 18, 2011 6:54 am

Yesterday I cut my min red sword into a curved blade on it's very straight square core.
It was 4' long with a large sword fry on it, so I had enough material to cut a nice curve.
I then made the angled handle in the Dagorhir forum link Arakkis posted.
I seems to be **** bad * so far.
I need to get a cover goin and wrap the handle in some twill tape. And rope. I think a base of 1/8" rope and then gree twill.
Pics later when its done. This is the first experiment at this. I simply cut up the existing blade. If it works well, when this blade fails, I'm going to do another.
I'm making one for Magnus. too.
FB

by **Forkbeard** » Wed May 18, 2011 11:31 am

The prototype.
You cant see the layer of black foam on the striking surface to my satifaction. It makes the curve look complete.
I needs a cover.
FB

by **Black Cat** » Wed May 18, 2011 11:50 am

Nice. I see you're getting ready for Samurai Summer.

What is the name of the black cat in the photo?

by **Zeldrine Cold** » Wed May 18, 2011 11:54 am

Black Cat wrote:What is the name of the black cat in the photo?

You're looking at this picture and this is what you're automatically drawn to?????? Really?

Fork I think I have a cover if you need. Either that or we can steal one of Eunuch's.

by **Sieglatan** » Wed May 18, 2011 11:59 am

Very very cool- I especially like how you made the pommel. I may have to steal the shape. How does the weight of your katana compare to other 4' red swords you've made?

Nice actual sword too- the cat seems to like it

Samurai Summer is going to be awesome!

by **Black Cat** » Wed May 18, 2011 12:06 pm

Zeldrine Cold wrote:
Black Cat wrote:What is the name of the black cat in the photo?

You're looking at this picture and this is what you're automatically drawn to?????? Really?

Fork I think I have a cover if you need. Either that or we can steal one of Eunuch's.

What can I say? I like black cats.

Though when I said "nice" in my first sentence, I was referring to the sword.

It'll be nice to see this sword with a cover in-person at Yestare.

by **Forkbeard** » Wed May 18, 2011 1:54 pm

It seems really light to me. It had about 12-16 oz of steel in the handle before, though. I replaced it with pine when I made the angled handle, so it alot lighter. But it's still more overall material than an edhellen min red, so it's got to be over 24oz.
We'll see this weekend.
Z-thanks, the blade is 31" long and one sided, but kind of wide. I need a the cover to be as tight as possible. Thanks Buddy.
My cats name is Eric.
FB

by **Arrakis** » Wed May 18, 2011 2:12 pm

Forkbeard wrote:But it's still more overall material than an edhellen min red, so it's got to be over 24oz.

Pretty sure edhellen min reds don't make weight before balancing.

by **No'Vak** » Wed May 18, 2011 2:42 pm

Arrakis wrote:
Forkbeard wrote:But it's still more overall material than an edhellen min red, so it's got to be over 24oz.

Pretty sure edhellen min reds don't make weight before balancing.

Thats what he said.

by **Sieglatan** » Thu May 19, 2011 9:10 pm

Some small progress- bladed!

The core was a bit dense, so I did four blade layers instead of three to be on the safe side. I'm slightly kicking myself because this weapon is only 6" shy of being a red weapon. Ah well. I'll make a nodachi at a later date.

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