New Flail Tutorial?

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New Flail Tutorial?

Postby Mughi » Wed Jun 29, 2011 3:18 pm

I'm curious about how to make a flail using the current tech, as opposed to the Belewiki tutorial which is just god awful.

I've made a few that I was thoroughly unhappy with, and now I want to do it right. The things I've had the toughest time with so far are the dingleberries which still tear off after every incident of contact, and being confident that the flail fully conforms to the rules. I'm still unclear on what 15" on separate axes means, exactly. Can it be defined as there being no portion of the flail head that a 15" long string can be wrapped around, or more vaguely that a 15" long string cannot be wrapped around the head on the x, y, or z axes while originating from its center of mass?

What other little tips will make my life easier, and my flail last longer? After searching through some threads I noticed Big Jimmy said to put carpet tape on the foam innards of the head so it will stick to the inside of the bag and not shift around, and thought that was good to know. Anything more like that would be greatly appreciated.
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Re: New Flail Tutorial?

Postby Big King Jimmy » Wed Jun 29, 2011 3:40 pm

I said that? Jesus I give awful advice. I mean, I've stacked my cube with carpet tape before... but on the outside? Man. Don't listen to me. Also I haven't made a flail in....... 4 years?
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Re: New Flail Tutorial?

Postby Arrakis » Wed Jun 29, 2011 7:32 pm

What's wrong with the wiki tutorial?
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Re: New Flail Tutorial?

Postby Atman » Wed Jun 29, 2011 9:37 pm

Hmmm, is that meant sarcastically? The bag head flail still calls for pipe insulation, the rope flail uses pvc and is of an overly elaborate design, and the third method is vague at best.

First off, kudos on reading the rules AND using the search function. To answer your specific questions, the idea (as I've always understood) behind the 15" on seperate axes is to insure that no part of the head is so narrow as to fit to easily into the eye socket, etc,. So yes, you're on the right track with 15" of string wrapping around the head. Generally speaking, this is checked by a combination of wrapping a cloth measuring tape around the head on the x & y axes and common sense observation.

How have you been applying dingleberries? There are two common methods I have seen: The first is cutting small (~1.5" diameter) discs with slits in them (think pac-man), sliding them onto the chain, and taping in place. The second method is taking small 1" wide strips of foam, wrapping them around the chain, and taping in place.

There is another method of making a rope flail I unfortunately don't have time to post today.......will do so soon if this doesn't fix your problems.
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Re: New Flail Tutorial?

Postby Arrakis » Wed Jun 29, 2011 9:42 pm

Atman wrote:Hmmm, is that meant sarcastically?


No, it wasn't, *. I can't **** be * to go look at the tutorials on the wiki for making a weapon no one takes seriously and everyone already knows how to make. I'm ever so sorry that the bag head thing calls for pipe insulation; replace that with bluefoam and holy ****: Make a Bag Head Flail. Success.

Flails are not rocket science.

And PVC makes great rope flails.
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Re: New Flail Tutorial?

Postby Mekoot Rowan » Thu Jun 30, 2011 6:21 am

Arrakis, Atman is pretty serious about his weapon building and makes some very clean builds. His flails are works of art and his red swords were in high demand at melcaorme.

I also read your post as sarcasm until you posted otherwise. I think we just expect any one line reply to be sarcastic or scornful.

IMO you should be building a rope flail to begin with. They're more durable and the head tends to be heavier meaning that they're easier for people to feel your hits. I'll try to describe my method of building the head, and if you want clarification please ask.

1) You'll want to begin by cutting 2 inch foam discs of a relatively durable foam. 4# would be ideal but I've had great results with military foam, if blue foam is all you have on hand then go ahead and use that. Cut one 2.5" disc from 8-10oz. leather

2)In each disc cut/poke 2 holes on the diameter about .25" on either side of the center. When stacked, the leather disc should go at the top of the stack and all the holes should line up.

3)Thread your rope through the holes, up one side and down the other, leaving 1" or so space between them. It is important at this step to leave enough rope on either side of your threading to attach to the core you will be using.

4) DAP between each disc. When the DAP is ready, slide them all together. Using this as your core, wrap it as you would a club until it meets the requirements for a flail head. If you want to be extra stylish, build a flanged mace head onto this base.
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Re: New Flail Tutorial?

Postby Atman » Thu Jun 30, 2011 8:58 am

Arrakis, I assure you that was not meant as a personal attack. Your usual responses to someone even considering using substandard materials are what led me to believe it might be a sarcastic remark. It is a problem inherent to the boards and any other written medium.



The way I build my rope flails is on 3/8" hollow braid poly rope like this http://www.xssling.com/images/nylon_rope_clip_image011.jpg. There are multiple ways to build the head, the major difference from other methods is that you can use 1/2" fiberglass for the core. When hollow braid rope is compressed or stretched lengthways, its diameter increases or contracts accordingly like a finger trap. This works so well in fact that sliding the rope over the bare core, WITH NO GLUE, will support a persons weight.

So, once your head is built on the rope, you smear a good amount of general purpose glue-all (e-6000, goop, etc,) on the core and slide the rope down to make the chain length you want. Giving the rope a good yank once it is on will tighten the rope to the core. Haft padding is built over the top of the rope-covered core; the only thing to be careful about is using enough dap since the resulting surface is somewhat uneven. The rope can be cut off where youre handle starts. Since this style of rope flail only subjects the ~6" of rope at the chain to significant pulling forces rather than the 30"+ in a traditional rope flail, stretch is not as big of a problem. That said, max chain length when built should be no more than 5.5".
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Re: New Flail Tutorial?

Postby Arrakis » Thu Jun 30, 2011 9:24 am

That sounds like a very nice design, Atman. How do you build your heads? Mine typically involve wrapping the rope in the middle with incredible amounts of duct tape to get a weighty center pseudo-"core" and then building out from there...
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Re: New Flail Tutorial?

Postby Mughi » Thu Jun 30, 2011 5:57 pm

Wow, that hollow braid build sounds brilliant. I'm going to try it as soon as the 1/2" fibreglass I ordered comes in. Until then, I only have 3/8" or Bandpole.

I also lack leather, for Rowan's build. Is there any suitable substitute for leather as the core of the head? Regardless, all of the previous flails I've tried were bag heads, so I'm going to attempt a rope flail ASAP even if for no reason other than to get a bit more famailiar with them.

I think I may have simply been making the dingleberries on my previous flails too loose (so they would float), causing them to catch on targets and get torqued off the rope. With this new rope head I'll be securing them tighter as you suggest.

What are the definitive qualities of a "good" flail? What should I be looking to have in whatever I design and build? Are heavier heads always preferred? Is there the same case of longer vs. shorter as with swords, or is longer always better? Is there any reason to counterweight or otherwise affect the balance or weight of a flail shaft? Finally, it seems based on your replies that rope head flails are the preferred standard - is there any case to be made for bag head flails vs. rope head, or are rope head simply better in most ways?

I've gotten to the point where I'm comfortable making just about any weapon, to a standard of quality that I think is acceptable. The only exception is a flail, and that's ultimately why I want to go through the exercise of building them.
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Re: New Flail Tutorial?

Postby Atman » Thu Jun 30, 2011 10:34 pm

Arrakis:
First I knot the rope and put on a leather "washer" just a little smaller than the dia. of my pool noodle, then wrap the rope with a small strip of blue folded in half that is cinched down with tape to be just a little smaller than the hole in the noodle. The rope is threaded through the noodle and forced over the duct-taped end section with a little flexible all-purpose type adhesive. Over the top of the knotted rope I glue a couple layers of high density foam, one of which is shaped to accomodate the knot. Depending on the noodle diameter I follow with one or two layers of blue that covers the whole head and some flanges or whatever to meet min dimensions.

Mughi:
As with almost any weapon, good is defined by the user. Long flails suffer most of the same drawbacks as long swords and vice versa. Longer flails offer better reach, but are generally less useful in up close fighting etc,.
Rope flails are currently top tech because they enhance the flails primary advantage of wrap and "unpredictability". That said, they tend to have heavier heads and have more erratic head movements that can increase recovery time from throwing a shot to a neutral/defensive position. My personal feeling is that bag flails are conducive to a more methodical fighting approach than rope flails (if flail fighting can be viewed as methodical at all ;) ).
The flails I build are definitely a lighter headed rope flail than most and it seems to be a happy medium between a light headed bag flail and heavy headed rope flail. From a construction stand-point, bag flails ARE easier to build and will last longer with proper material use if for no other reason than ease of repair. If you have the time, I would try both types of flail and decide accordingly.
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Re: New Flail Tutorial?

Postby Arrakis » Thu Jun 30, 2011 10:52 pm

My favorite flails have super heavy heads made of hate.

The last one I made had a 9oz head, I **** you not.
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Re: New Flail Tutorial?

Postby Mekoot Rowan » Fri Jul 01, 2011 6:25 am

I can't think of anything to replace the leather that would have the same durability and still be safe to put in the head of the flail. Look around your local thrift store for a wide, flat belt.
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