New stab tip standard?

[Tordek]

so when I started in this sport, the way stab tips were built was using that green couch foam from joannes fabric, and at the time the gold standard was if you could get a hold of a life guard tube and use the foam from that. From what I'm hearing now the current standard is Golds Gym mat. So the question is, if i can get my hands on the lifeguard tube for free, is that still good enough, or should i just go buy some Golds stuff?

[Cheeseheart]

Tordek, just do what the tutorial says (the top one).

http://geddon.org/index.php/Constructing_a_Stabbing_Tip

is there any reason why the tutorial suggests using carpet tape as opposed to DAP or a Spray adhesive?

[Caleidah]

Tordek, the lifeguard tube foam is basically the same as the gold's gym mat, as far as I know. I know that someone more knowledgeable will come along and correct me if I'm wrong.

DV: It has to do with replacing the stab tip if the foam fails. With the tape that you put on to stabilize the stab tip, it does roughly the same thing as DAP would, it's just not permanent.

[Tiberius Claudius]

My experience has been that the tube foam breaks down more quickly than the mat foam; but is completely acceptable for use. Use what you can but I throw my endorsement behind the yoga mat.

Also, follow Arrakis' Jav/spear tuts on putting a leather/plastic disk between coreand stab tip.

How'd you score the tube? I never have luck asking the local pools.

[barley]

SPORT SEAT CUSHIONS FROM *'S.

They are $6 each 3/4-1" thick

[Torix]

Tordek, just do what the tutorial says (the top one).

http://geddon.org/index.php/Constructing_a_Stabbing_Tip

is there any reason why the tutorial suggests using carpet tape as opposed to DAP or a Spray adhesive?

Just a heads up- this kind of tip will usually fail if you take it to Dag events due to them testing stabbing with a 2 handed stab. (my tip was 2 layers of marine)

[Solusar]

Tordek, just do what the tutorial says (the top one).

http://geddon.org/index.php/Constructing_a_Stabbing_Tip

is there any reason why the tutorial suggests using carpet tape as opposed to DAP or a Spray adhesive?

Just a heads up- this kind of tip might possibly fail if you take it to Dag events due to them testing stabbing with a 2 handed stab. (my tip was 2 layers of marine)

Fixed that for you. Depends on where you go and who checks. I've had swords fail for that though. But really, who the **** uses a blue sword and stabs with two hands? It's dumb they check that way.

[Atman]

Actually, I would imagine it is a somewhat common occurence when stabbing someone in armor.

[Solusar]

I've maybe once in four years of stabbing, have two-handed stabbed a dude in armor. Too much effort, I'd rather swing twice. Is this something you do often?
I also think it's fun to try and single hand stab them hard enough to take the shot even if wearing armor.

[duckymcfeelgood]

Tordek, just do what the tutorial says (the top one).

http://geddon.org/index.php/Constructing_a_Stabbing_Tip

is there any reason why the tutorial suggests using carpet tape as opposed to DAP or a Spray adhesive?

Just a heads up- this kind of tip will usually fail if you take it to Dag events due to them testing stabbing with a 2 handed stab. (my tip was 2 layers of marine)

Who and where? I have the *'s Foam and have yet to have issue. I will say alot of people do test for the double, but they do it wrong. And most of them are crybabies that fail anything that moves them.

[Solusar]

Ducky speaks the truth.

[Alric]

I've never once had the new style of tip fail a Dag check for hitting too hard since I started using them two years ago, in a dozen Dag chapters all up and down the east coast.

[Peanut of Loderia]

I had mine fail at Rag this year on Tuesday at the top weapons check. Funny thing was the dude didnt even stab hard. He slightly poked his bro and he failed it. Took it back on Thursday no modifications and it passed. Different bro getting stabbed though. Same bro stabbing.

[Solusar]

I had similar problems as Peanut with the Gestiguiste weapons check and once or twice in the KC area. Usually because the tape was on too tight. Going back east I'm excited to see how everyone there checks in both games.

[Tordek]

My experience has been that the tube foam breaks down more quickly than the mat foam; but is completely acceptable for use. Use what you can but I throw my endorsement behind the yoga mat.

Also, follow Arrakis' Jav/spear tuts on putting a leather/plastic disk between coreand stab tip.

How'd you score the tube? I never have luck asking the local pools.

I work at a pool, one of the tubes broke its strap, but it is still really in good condition, but unfortunately not repairable, so i asked my boss if i could have it.

[Arrakis]

SPORT SEAT CUSHIONS FROM *'S.

They are $6 each 3/4-1" thick

QFT.



RE: Dag weapons checks: If GtG or Templar are checking, everything you own will fail. Otherwise, these tips pass fine.

[Peanut of Loderia]

Funny thing is they werent checking anything for safety. I think my 4#/2# sword would fail for hitting too hard. Especially at 20 oz. The dude lightly tapped himself and called it good. I was like O.O

[Arrakis]

Funny thing is they werent checking anything for safety. I think my 4#/2# sword would fail for hitting too hard. Especially at 20 oz. The dude lightly tapped himself and called it good. I was like O.O

I should have been more clear.

Last time I experienced the GtG+Templar check, they failed 8/9 of my stabbing tips, then passed a VERY hard-hitting miniglaive for striking.

Also, my 4#+2# swords hit BETTER than my all 2# numbers...

[Tyrieal Isenguard]

Yea, they pretty much just touched each other and said they failed. It really upsets me that we play a game that promotes hard hitting, but if a stab tip is uncomfortable people turn into pussies.

[Peanut of Loderia]

Yea, they pretty much just touched each other and said they failed. It really upsets me that we play a game that promotes hard hitting, but if a stab tip is uncomfortable people turn into pussies.

You should move to Illinois. It's nice here. You can bring the rest of the NQ guys too.

[randy]

is there any reason why the tutorial suggests using carpet tape as opposed to DAP or a Spray adhesive?

Spray adhesive or DAP is great for connecting large pieces together. When your talking about gluing a small surface area that is going to see a lot of contact, the foam will usually shear right off. The glue just isn't enough. Strapping tape, hockey tape, or just clear plastic tape usually prevents that from happening.

[Arrakis]

is there any reason why the tutorial suggests using carpet tape as opposed to DAP or a Spray adhesive?

Spray adhesive or DAP is great for connecting large pieces together. When your talking about gluing a small surface area that is going to see a lot of contact, the foam will usually shear right off. The glue just isn't enough. Strapping tape, hockey tape, or just clear plastic tape usually prevents that from happening.

He's talking about using two-sided carpet tape instead of DAP as the adhesive.

[Cheeseheart]

Yea, they pretty much just touched each other and said they failed. It really upsets me that we play a game that promotes hard hitting, but if a stab tip is uncomfortable people turn into pussies.

Let's begin the push for unmodified blues to pass for stabbing?

[Blackwolfe]

Yea, they pretty much just touched each other and said they failed. It really upsets me that we play a game that promotes hard hitting, but if a stab tip is uncomfortable people turn into pussies.

Let's begin the push for unmodified blues to pass for stabbing?

rather not, a core can ram through old blue foam with little warning. The yoga at least what I use, adds a lot of tinsel strength to keep core from stabbing clean through.

My 2 cents.

[Cheeseheart]

If we properly cap/blunt the tips, can we not prevent that?

[Arrakis]

Yea, they pretty much just touched each other and said they failed. It really upsets me that we play a game that promotes hard hitting, but if a stab tip is uncomfortable people turn into pussies.

Let's begin the push for unmodified blues to pass for stabbing?

You do not want me to stab you in the ribs with an unmodified blue.

Weapons are supposed to be tested in such a way to ensure that they don't typically leave bruises on regular strikes; that would no longer be the case.

[Tyrieal Isenguard]

Yea, they pretty much just touched each other and said they failed. It really upsets me that we play a game that promotes hard hitting, but if a stab tip is uncomfortable people turn into pussies.

You should move to Illinois. It's nice here. You can bring the rest of the NQ guys too.

Yea, I've thought about moving to Illinois. All my family is in MD though, and the rest of the NQ! guys will move to TX lol.

[Torix]

Yea, they pretty much just touched each other and said they failed. It really upsets me that we play a game that promotes hard hitting, but if a stab tip is uncomfortable people turn into pussies.

Let's begin the push for unmodified blues to pass for stabbing?

You do not want me to stab you in the ribs with an unmodified blue.

Weapons are supposed to be tested in such a way to ensure that they don't typically leave bruises on regular strikes; that would no longer be the case.

But just the same, you shouldnt have to layer up 2-3 layers of yoga matt to pass a stab check.

[Arrakis]

You do not want me to stab you in the ribs with an unmodified blue.

Weapons are supposed to be tested in such a way to ensure that they don't typically leave bruises on regular strikes; that would no longer be the case.

But just the same, you shouldnt have to layer up 2-3 layers of yoga matt to pass a stab check.

The minimum I feel safe harpooning people with is a 4# biscuit, a 4# layer, a 2# layer, and 3/4" (2 yoga layers equivalent) of marine.

[Cheeseheart]

You do not want me to stab you in the ribs with an unmodified blue.

Yes I do.

[Blackwolfe]

You do not want me to stab you in the ribs with an unmodified blue.

Weapons are supposed to be tested in such a way to ensure that they don't typically leave bruises on regular strikes; that would no longer be the case.

But just the same, you shouldnt have to layer up 2-3 layers of yoga matt to pass a stab check.

The minimum I feel safe harpooning people with is a 4# biscuit, a 4# layer, a 2# layer, and 3/4" (2 yoga layers equivalent) of marine.

What is blue walmart camp pad? what #?

[Tyrieal Isenguard]

I think its 1.9 I believe. I can't use blue foam swords anymore. I can go through a blue foam blade in one event. Thats using an all blue blade though.

[Arrakis]

~1.9#.

Vador, you really like cracked ribs, huh?

[Cheeseheart]

I'll play stupid here, and ask you to explain why that intricate stab tip contraption of yours makes it less likely that you will crack my ribs and a medium or full forced stab.

[Caleidah]

Warning to all involved: Inbound Math

[Cheeseheart]

I can't wait!

[Arrakis]

Q: What does an Edhellen bluesword have over the core on the tip?

A: About an inch of large-cell ~2# PE.

Q: What does one of my stabbing tips, very similar to those used by many others in the sport, currently, have over the tip of the core?

A: a biscuit of 4#, ~3/8" of 4#, 1/2" of 2# foam, and 3/4" of high-density, high-Poisson's ration marine foam, providing additional impact force dissipation and impact velocity rate change decrease, greatly reducing the force impacting the target area per unit time during the impact and allowing time for the body being struck to react by moving away from the stab during the impact and reducing strain on impacted and nearby tissues. All of which implies a SIGNIFICANTLY lower chance of serious injury.

tl;dr: Same reason an airbag in your car helps prevent you snapping your neck vs. a plain old dashboard hitting you in the face.

[Cheeseheart]

Read both parts, but I'll respond to the short version with the long one in mind. The way an airbag feels is significantly different than the way a dashboard feels, as they are made of materials worlds apart. Now, I know that we use different types of foam for different purposes....but in the end, it's just foam. Some are harder, some are squishier, some flexible and some rigid, but as far as the types of foam we use and have deemed proper for our sport, they're all essentially the same. Again, I can understand the airbag/dashboard metaphor, but are the different foams you mention actually different enough to cause the results you describe?

Just so y'all know, I'm no longer playing dumb anymore. I ask these questions for educational reasons, not just for myself, but for others who may be viewing.

[Peanut of Loderia]

Ever got a stab to the floating ribs? Those suck. Ever got stabbed in the flaoting ribs with a non-stabbing sword? I have, and have done it. I put three kids out of commission for the day. Play testing = done.


And now for something completely different: Someone from Arnor.

[Arrakis]

Read both parts, but I'll respond to the short version with the long one in mind. The way an airbag feels is significantly different than the way a dashboard feels, as they are made of materials worlds apart. Now, I know that we use different types of foam for different purposes....but in the end, it's just foam. Some are harder, some are squishier, some flexible and some rigid, but as far as the types of foam we use and have deemed proper for our sport, they're all essentially the same. Again, I can understand the airbag/dashboard metaphor, but are the different foams you mention actually different enough to cause the results you describe?

Just so y'all know, I'm no longer playing dumb anymore. I ask these questions for educational reasons, not just for myself, but for others who may be viewing.

Okay, the airbag thing was what's called an analogy; you can't attack the details of an analogy. However, recall that a rubber band and a vulcanized tire are both just rubber and a sheet of aluminum foil and a stop sign are made of the same material. Sure, foam is foam, but not all foams are created equal. They have these things they call "structural" foams; they're, for example, aluminum foam, which is exactly what it sounds like. They make armor for concrete bunkers and stuff out of it. It's certainly not suitable for building a sword, but it's still foam.

Also, recall that you seemed to be advocating 1" of 2# vs. my 3/4" of 4#, 1/2 of 2#, 3/4" of marine. If you were talking about using 2.5" of 2#, I wouldn't be quite as vehemently opposed, though, of course, I still think that sort of construction would hit hard enough to be genuinely unsafe in the hands of stronger stabbers.

[Tyrieal Isenguard]

Its also easier to get sufficient force from a stab then it is a swing. I have been known to crumple people with stabs from time to time, only because they aid in the force of the stab by walking into it.

Yea sure, I have been stabbed with straight blue foam capped swords, because thats what they use in Amtgard. I've been stabbed at bel with standard edhellen swords. I don't cry about it, it sucks a bit, but the day goes on.

I believe that having that bit of extra padding helps with the stab tips, and will prevent injurys(sp?), that can happen if not using the foam that last longer and is more efficient than just stabbing with your plain old beat stick.