Prosthetic sword

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Prosthetic sword

Postby Ticonderoga » Sat Sep 17, 2011 8:38 pm

One of my friend's dad is missing his lower arm and well he's kinda started getting into this but he HATES his left hand so i thought it would be nice to ask if anybody had a desing for a prosthetic sword. truly anything would help.
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Re: Prosthetic sword

Postby Glass » Sat Sep 17, 2011 9:27 pm

To be perfectly honest, I don't know if this is feasible. A. no pommel to check. B. his arm is instantly a punching weapon, which are against the rules. if it were attached perpendicular... well, it wouldnt be a realistic way of fighting.
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Re: Prosthetic sword

Postby Derian » Sat Sep 17, 2011 9:47 pm

Yeah, it's not really practical or reasonable.

Fit him up with a shield on that arm and he can go sword & board.
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Re: Prosthetic sword

Postby Ticonderoga » Sat Sep 17, 2011 10:07 pm

yeah i kinda forgot about the pommel check and punching weapons hehe i just completley forgot about the book of war
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Re: Prosthetic sword

Postby Caleidah » Sat Sep 17, 2011 10:26 pm

Ticonderoga wrote:i just completley forgot about the book of war

Go read it again. Then read it a third time. That will clear up a lot of your issues.
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Re: Prosthetic sword

Postby Ticonderoga » Sat Sep 17, 2011 10:52 pm

I have read it a few times allready and i just looked through it again.
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Re: Prosthetic sword

Postby Blitz. » Sun Sep 18, 2011 1:08 am

Ticonderoga wrote:I have read it a few times allready and i just looked through it again.


Caleidah wrote:
Ticonderoga wrote:i just completley forgot about the book of war

Go read it again. Then read it a third time. That will clear up a lot of your issues.
Caleidah wrote:
Ticonderoga wrote:i just completley forgot about the book of war

Go read it again. Then read it a third time. That will clear up a lot of your issues.
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Re: Prosthetic sword

Postby Solusar » Sun Sep 18, 2011 11:25 am

Have him play a chaos spawn and made a sweet PD tentacle or claw he can wear just for looking **** cool. Check out those Euro LARPs for ideas.
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Re: Prosthetic sword

Postby Tiercel » Sun Sep 18, 2011 1:24 pm

Glass wrote:To be perfectly honest, I don't know if this is feasible. A. no pommel to check. B. his arm is instantly a punching weapon, which are against the rules. if it were attached perpendicular... well, it wouldnt be a realistic way of fighting.

I disagree with both A and B. You need motion at the elbow to make a punching motion. Double-ended weapons don't have pommels because the concept of a pommel isn't relevant to a weapon with striking surfaces padding both ends. If the weapon is literally attached to the fighter's arm, do you think that failing it for not having a pommel is really the reasonable answer?

Safety and construction materials are my two biggest concerns here, with safety being the greater obstacle to overcome.
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Re: Prosthetic sword

Postby Ticonderoga » Sun Sep 18, 2011 1:56 pm

Well i was looking at that Katar post and i thought of a desing like that. he could melt down some metal to the point where it could hold a sword in a cone shaped grasp and cover the metal with camping pad and problem solved exept for the no metal cores rule. but it could count as armor couldent it? if it were a solid piece.
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Re: Prosthetic sword

Postby Thorondor » Sun Sep 18, 2011 3:27 pm

Armor is armor
Weapon is weapon
Shield is shield

None of those are another one of those things.
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Re: Prosthetic sword

Postby Ticonderoga » Sun Sep 18, 2011 4:30 pm

well i meant the arm clamp thingy i think this would belong more in the fantasy weapons thingy i posted
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Re: Prosthetic sword

Postby Fitz Caliston » Sun Sep 18, 2011 5:46 pm

I have a friend in my original Amtgard fighting company that was born without his left hand. Just had a little stump and 1 joint for a thumb. we made him a buckler style shield to go S&B, a prosthetic flail (cuff with a strap to attach it fairly solid to his forarm, and the chain portion started right after his stump.

We were in the process of working on a prosthetic attachement that would hold a bow for him when we both had to move to opposite sides of the country.

Ya might try those options.
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Re: Prosthetic sword

Postby Ticonderoga » Sun Sep 18, 2011 6:19 pm

well he's missing his arm from just avove his elbow so i dont think a bow is going to work but we can get him a shield arm attatchment just put some steel or iron on his arm with a hinge and a lock so its tight and a solid peice of metal with padding and then a strap shield attached to it it wouldent be the same with a sword thoug i think youd need a peice of PVC or fiberglass at you desired length and width and well his kid could build the sword for him prblem solved exept for the pommel check
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Re: Prosthetic sword

Postby Tiercel » Sun Sep 18, 2011 6:36 pm

Ticonderoga wrote:well he's missing his arm from just avove his elbow so i dont think a bow is going to work

Putting Belegarth aside for a moment, inventors have been working on prosthetics for some time now, and there are devices that could allow your friend to use a bow. Have a look at some of the images this page links to. http://www.oandplibrary.org/alp/chap12-03.asp
And yes, I'm well aware that such a device would not be legal.

The biggest question in my mind is this - would we be placing your friend at an unreasonable risk of injury by putting him on a fighting field with a piece of equipment strapped to his arm so he could not drop it when a large amount of force is applied to it?
Last edited by Tiercel on Sun Sep 18, 2011 6:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Prosthetic sword

Postby Ticonderoga » Sun Sep 18, 2011 6:53 pm

yeah velcro would work this really all only possible if youd put some rules aside for this
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Re: Prosthetic sword

Postby Ticonderoga » Sun Sep 18, 2011 6:56 pm

oh and those would work if they were legal but really dont normal prosthetics cost like 100's of thousands of dollars?
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Re: Prosthetic sword

Postby Ticonderoga » Sun Sep 18, 2011 8:26 pm

didnt work dude
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Re: Prosthetic sword

Postby Caleidah » Mon Sep 19, 2011 11:18 am

If you're going to attempt to keep velcro holding like that while it's being hit with any amount of force, it isn't going to last long. I'm gonna dig for a little bit, but there have been shoulder shields posted in the past. They're usually used by spearmen, but one would definitely fit in a situation like this.
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Re: Prosthetic sword

Postby MorganDrakeheart » Mon Sep 19, 2011 12:25 pm

Why would he hate fighting lefty? A) He already has to do everything else left handed, B) its an advantage. In fact, in every sport, being a South-Paw is a good thing.
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Re: Prosthetic sword

Postby Sir Thurat » Mon Sep 19, 2011 2:14 pm

Maul from Beornve has a really wicked shoulder shield that you should ask him about. It might be just what you're looking for.
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Re: Prosthetic sword

Postby Tiercel » Mon Sep 19, 2011 6:25 pm

Thurat wrote:Maul from Beornve has a really wicked shoulder shield that you should ask him about. It might be just what you're looking for.
Here's a pic of Maul wearing his curved buckler: Image
Edit: Credit for the photo goes to Salamander.
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Re: Prosthetic sword

Postby Abion47 » Wed Sep 21, 2011 1:06 pm

What about strapping on a prosthetic flail? I don't know how he would like using a flail rather than a sword, but it seems that it would be easier to make a passing design than a sword.
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Re: Prosthetic sword

Postby Forkbeard » Wed Sep 21, 2011 2:35 pm

No, you can not strap any weapon to yourself.
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Re: Prosthetic sword

Postby Sir Thurat » Wed Sep 21, 2011 9:38 pm

Forkbeard wrote:No, you can not strap any weapon to yourself.
Fb

Fork, could you support that with a rule from the BoW? I don't recall anything saying that a weapon had to be held in a hand to be swung. If a weapon is properly padded and safely and securely attached, I fail to see it's illegality.

As well, as this would be an accommodation for a special population fighter, if such a rule exists could an exception not be made? I understand that you have made numerous arguments against bending the rules to make it easier for other people to play, such as the sash thing that the St. Louis realm was trying out, but this seems to be a horse of a different color.
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Re: Prosthetic sword

Postby Glass » Wed Sep 21, 2011 11:12 pm

A weapon has to be swung with a hand. The book of war says a blue weapons is swung with one hand, while a red is swung with two. If you do not have a hand on the weapon (i.e. strapped on weapon) it wouldn't count as a point of damage.
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Re: Prosthetic sword

Postby Archer » Wed Sep 21, 2011 11:24 pm

Thurat wrote:
Forkbeard wrote:No, you can not strap any weapon to yourself.
Fb

Fork, could you support that with a rule from the BoW? I don't recall anything saying that a weapon had to be held in a hand to be swung. If a weapon is properly padded and safely and securely attached, I fail to see it's illegality.

As well, as this would be an accommodation for a special population fighter, if such a rule exists could an exception not be made? I understand that you have made numerous arguments against bending the rules to make it easier for other people to play, such as the sash thing that the St. Louis realm was trying out, but this seems to be a horse of a different color.


Take your pick:

Hand has to be on the weapon, as Glass mentioned.

I think it would count as a worn weapon, so:
3.7.4. Sheathed or otherwise worn Weapons cannot block attacks.

Also punching weapons are illegal. (I understand this weapon would be closer to a normal blue sword, or as Abion suggested, a flail, but I recall people quoting the punching weapons/tonfa exclusion when some kid wanted to strap a sword to his arm a month or two back)

Additionally: there could be safety issues if something hits it hard enough to knock it off. There is no advantage to it and a loss of dexterity and available strikes for a fighter using that setup. It would be a pain in the * to build it and have it strapped to him while also passing all specifications (for instance: a pommel would still have to pass weapons check template, which would then mean the weapon would likely protrude from his arm significantly). I'm sure there are more reasons why it is an inefficient setup even if it didn't break the rules.

It's true that it's a special scenario, but Morgan brought up a REALLY good point. Not only is fighting lefty an advantage to some degree, but there's no special adaptation he would need (aside from maybe some extra buckles) to fight with a strap shield on his right arm. It's an easier solution that requires less work on his part and also does not break accepted convention of the sport.
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Re: Prosthetic sword

Postby Sir Thurat » Thu Sep 22, 2011 6:27 am

I agree that fighting left would be a tremendous advantage to the guy, but if he insists on fighting righty, then I don't see how making an attachable flail would be a violation of the BoW. It isn't worn, it would be no more dangerous than any other weapon flying out-of-hand if detached, and that rule is the anti-anviling rule, and is not really applicable in this case.

I concede that the argument to make a shield rather than a modified weapon is better, and more likely to pass everywhere, but it doesn't hurt to hash out all possibilities; that's how we progress as a sport.
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Re: Prosthetic sword

Postby Archer » Thu Sep 22, 2011 1:48 pm

Well, we disagree on the anviling rules. I would count strapping a weapon to yourself as wearing it, regardless of where you're strapping it. Would the strapped-on handle then block shots? I could see it as being more dangerous than another weapon flying, but it really depends on the design in the first place. Other weapons going flying out of hand wouldn't have straps or buckles attached to them. Regardless, none of that negates hand on the weapon. Not really any way around that one without bending the rules.

Also: just because something isn't explicitly forbidden in the BoW doesn't mean it's an acceptable idea. The BoW doesn't mention tridents. That doesn't make them any less impractical or silly.

It doesn't hurt to hash out all possibilities, but you've already agreed that it's a better idea for him to build the shield. If there's already a better idea, I think it's best to just work with it. Especially considering, (and this is not meant as an offense) Ticonderoga is only fourteen and has been fighting for less than a year. I believe he is handling weapon construction for their realm. If their foamsmith is someone new to the sport, I think for safety's sake they should stick to established designs until they pick up more experience.
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Re: Prosthetic sword

Postby Glass » Thu Sep 22, 2011 2:11 pm

Thurat wrote:I agree that fighting left would be a tremendous advantage to the guy, but if he insists on fighting righty, then I don't see how making an attachable flail would be a violation of the BoW. It isn't worn, it would be no more dangerous than any other weapon flying out-of-hand if detached, and that rule is the anti-anviling rule, and is not really applicable in this case.

I concede that the argument to make a shield rather than a modified weapon is better, and more likely to pass everywhere, but it doesn't hurt to hash out all possibilities; that's how we progress as a sport.

So by your thoughts, i can attach weapons to my legs and swing them at people? That would make things interesting. If there is no hand the weapon, it can't count. And I agree with the anviling, punch blocking would b impossible for him. On top of that, with his severely shortened arm, throwing any shots without an elbow would be unable to make an effective strike.
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Re: Prosthetic sword

Postby Ticonderoga » Sun Sep 25, 2011 5:37 pm

Well i like the discussion here and thanks for the ideas and well explaining that it would not be possible unless rules were missing from the book of war I really like the flail idea and morgan yes i fight lefty once in while because i know theres an advantage but its hard to get used to it for him and what not. and moreancum i didnt mean that the shield desing didnt owrk it was the picture that didnt work but it fixed its self or you edited it which ever. a prosthetic sowrd may be easier if it were below the elbow and we have some fasteners for PVC that are curved at like a 45 degree angle so we build a sword and pommel and everything but have a hole in the bottom of the pommel allowing the sowrd to be attached or get like a 'T' thingy and build the sword and pommel off of that. anyways thanks for all the posts and suff and well they have a shield now and i'll give them moreancum's desing and have them do that but i think they arent gonna do the pauldron.
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Re: Prosthetic sword

Postby Tiercel » Sun Sep 25, 2011 8:54 pm

This picture caught my eye.

Image

Don't imitate this picture, but I want to point out the way the prosthetic is attached to the man's right arm. If you made the conical portion shorter so that it was closer to the size of a basket hilt and didn't cover so much of the arm, and if you affixed a blade instead of a hook at the end of that cone, that would be the sort of thing that might work on a Belegarth-like field. Clearly, for the people who have stated they won't pass such a weapon, your friend won't be able to use it with those groups. You can't expect people all over to make exceptions for you. But if you make something safe and sturdy enough to give sufficient force, I think you'll be able to find some groups that would let an amputee use a sword with a cup and strap system in lieu of a handle. It's NOT giving you an unfair advantage (again, assuming you make the cupped portion smaller so it's not acting like unbreakable armor). And it should not count as anviling through to the arm, because you're treating the end of the stump as if it were a hand, and also because it'd be unsporting to expect the fighter to treat it like anvilling.
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Re: Prosthetic sword

Postby Sir Thurat » Sun Sep 25, 2011 10:48 pm

Glass wrote:So by your thoughts, i can attach weapons to my legs and swing them at people? That would make things interesting. If there is no hand the weapon, it can't count. And I agree with the anviling, punch blocking would b impossible for him. On top of that, with his severely shortened arm, throwing any shots without an elbow would be unable to make an effective strike.


Impracticality does not make something illegal, and the anviling rule is there to prevent weapons worn on the body from blocking strikes, because they could not have realistically done so. As demonstrated in the picture above, one could make an attachment for the prosthetic forearm, such as a spring loaded claw for gripping that could hold onto the handle of a normal weapon. It would have limited mobility, but basic shots would not be beyond it. This would involve no "creative" foamsmithing, no special weapons that violate the pommel requirements, and such a prosthetic probably already exists. Ta-da, a viable solution.
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Re: Prosthetic sword

Postby Ticonderoga » Mon Sep 26, 2011 5:24 pm

Maybe a sword like this: [imghttp://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.110119542420940.11364.100002686850400#!/photo.php?fbid=128635217236039&set=a.110119542420940.11364.100002686850400&type=1&theater][/img] i think this would work that way if a person hit hard enough it would be like having and actual arm with ability to get the sword nocked away, and the ability to be taken away.
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