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 Post subject: Layering method on a bandshop pole red question.
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 9:42 am 
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Okies I've red over the forums a lot looked around and sorta wanted an up to date definitive answer. I will be building a zwiehander type of weapon this week. It will probally be 5 1/2 ft built on a bandshop pole and i have an edhellen reblade fry. From what I read people use the box method around the core.

What I wanna know is it necisary with the reblade fry? Box made of tougher foam then fry or just the fry? (or some other layering method im missing)

on a side note is the stabby tip build the same way as a blue but with 2 layers? (usually use the * sporting goods stadium seat cushion things one layer) I'd Imagine id need two for a red but also think it might sheer off a lot more quickly ... any advice?

Thanks in Advance

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 Post subject: Re: Layering method on a bandshop pole red question.
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 5:18 pm 
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The idea of the denser foam as a box is to prevent feeling core on strikes. I cannot definitively speak as to how the fries will hold up without a box since I've never used them, but the science behind progressive foam densities would lead me to believe that the fry itself will not sufficiently do this on a red if it is one uniform type of foam throughout due to the diminishing returns of foam give for a softer hit versus the stiffness created by the thicker amount needed to keep the core from being felt. I could, however, be completely wrong and the fries will work perfectly. Someone else should be along to either correct or confirm my information.

Regardless, I'll stand by this particular build which has worked on 4 bandshoppe and 1/2" square longswords and a glaive in my realm for over a year without rebuilds:
  • Box of floor mat foam
  • Layer of armor grade leather/high strength plastic as cap to disperse forces of stabs and prevent coring
  • Layer of floor mat foam cap
  • Blade layer of blue (up and over top)
  • Blade layer of yoga mat (up and over top)
  • Blade layer of blue (up and over top)
  • Support flats with either blue tear drops (8" length) or strapping tape as your experience and vets advise
  • Two more strips of yoga for stab

I prefer the tear drops because they significantly reduce tip side-blowout and provides a larger base to secure the stabby foam, but its a tradeoff for striking surface thickness at the tip of the weapon if you're concerned about getting in small openings.

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 Post subject: Re: Layering method on a bandshop pole red question.
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 7:47 pm 
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Looking at materials I think ill try box of floor mat then the fry... Capping wit..h the leather like you described . With the stabbies do you dap them together then strapping tape or double sided carpet tape and strapping

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 Post subject: Re: Layering method on a bandshop pole red question.
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 7:53 pm 
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Are you talking about a standard re-blade fry or Edhellens two hander reblade fry. If its the later, you don't need a box so long as your core is the same diameter as what the fry is routed out for.

That's the advantage of using fry's in the first place is that they are routed out already for your core to fit in snugly with the maximum amount of core surface area being glued, where as the standard box method does not do this. However IMHO the best way to do this is to cut off the routed layer on your fry, use a 4# box layer (pm barley If you want to purchase one pre routed) and then use the regular 2# fry that you have.

As far as the stabby tip goes, i would recommend that you also contact barley on that, as so far of all the weapons I've owned, He's built the only ones that last consistently a year or more of heavy fighting

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 Post subject: Re: Layering method on a bandshop pole red question.
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 9:41 pm 
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It is a reblade fry for a red weapon. Also it is not propperly routed for a bandshope pole. I imagine making a box around the bandshop would end up pretty thick.. so I might have to cut off the routed layer like you described.

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 Post subject: Re: Layering method on a bandshop pole red question.
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:00 am 
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I am doing this.
I am going to make a #4 box on my 7' & 6' bandshoppe poles, then attach the reblade fry (after taking off the routed layer). I am then going to make a 3/4" *'s/Sport's seat-pad for the stabbing tip. I might add a layer of open-cell if it's not passing hit readily. I am going to put a layer of 3/4" seat-pad on the blade layer 6" from the tip down and 2" wide to help in the case of flatting I am going to use a layer of thick 1" pipe insulation (the rubber-ish kind) for incidental padding and am wondering if I should maybe add more foam to the haft padding to prevent injury. Maybe a layer of spiral-wrapped #4 foam? Or another layer of the insulation foam?
Each of the polearms are designated into thirds of the total length in the end.
Any other suggestions? Should I counter-weight these bad boys? Make the handle's oblong? I was wanting to add shield-hooks on either side as well.

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 Post subject: Re: Layering method on a bandshop pole red question.
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:41 am 
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DO NOT FOR THE LOVE OF GOD USE 4# FOAM FOR INCIDENTAL! You'll probably realise this once you get some in hand but just to make sure. Pipe insulation will break down and need repair. Your best bet is to spiral wrap some 2# for longevity. Make sure you use the red fry. You can also just use regular strips of 2# foam. The fry is really only needed if you either have one in hand or want the routed layer. Just fyi

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 Post subject: Re: Layering method on a bandshop pole red question.
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:48 am 
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Shield hooks? Are you trolling?

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Just don't call it boffing/boffering. That's not what we do. We fight. With swords. To the sorta-death. I can't stand it when someone says boffering. Plus is means sexin' in the UK.



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 Post subject: Re: Layering method on a bandshop pole red question.
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:04 pm 
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Now, another question concerning layering with bandshoppe poles..... to those other people that use them, do you "sand" the pole? Or just stick the glue and foam on without "prepping" the pole? I used to do it but someone said that the Bandshoppe poles strength lies in its "lamination", one reason, I'm guessing, they shatter so quickly. If you use some sandpaper on one, would it weaken the pole?

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 Post subject: Re: Layering method on a bandshop pole red question.
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:53 pm 
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Sleeper wrote:
Now, another question concerning layering with bandshoppe poles..... to those other people that use them, do you "sand" the pole? Or just stick the glue and foam on without "prepping" the pole? I used to do it but someone said that the Bandshoppe poles strength lies in its "lamination", one reason, I'm guessing, they shatter so quickly. If you use some sandpaper on one, would it weaken the pole?


The search box says:

Sand the pole. It won't do any harm and will likely help a lot with bonding *IF* you clean the residue from sanding off the pole before trying to apply adhesives.

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 Post subject: Re: Layering method on a bandshop pole red question.
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2012 6:38 pm 
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When you sand, you're just looking to rough up the surface superficially so it looks like:

--v-^v--vv^^v--v--^ etc instead of ----------------------

The intention behind this is to create more surface area for the DAP to bond to via all the envaginations (folding) you've created, compared to the smooth surface.

If you're making noticeable depressions in large areas of the pole rather than a general, consistent "rough" feeling, you've sanded too much and do run the risk of damaging the core.

All that said, I've never once sanded a core and my weapon fails have been for foam break down and flexing out; never for separation from core. Tons of people do sand and will swear by it. If you do it right, it can't hurt.

Definitely clean all the dust off before you apply the DAP.

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Remy the Wroth wrote:
Just don't call it boffing/boffering. That's not what we do. We fight. With swords. To the sorta-death. I can't stand it when someone says boffering. Plus is means sexin' in the UK.



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 Post subject: Re: Layering method on a bandshop pole red question.
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:18 am 
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wrap the core with a layer of cloth tape that will give the dap something better to bond with.
also you can get shield edge foam from edhellen its basically the red fry without the router channel

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 Post subject: Re: Layering method on a bandshop pole red question.
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:33 am 
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Tiberius Claudius wrote:
When you sand, you're just looking to rough up the surface superficially so it looks like:

--v-^v--vv^^v--v--^ etc instead of ----------------------

The intention behind this is to create more surface area for the DAP to bond to via all the envaginations (folding) you've created, compared to the smooth surface.

If you're making noticeable depressions in large areas of the pole rather than a general, consistent "rough" feeling, you've sanded too much and do run the risk of damaging the core.

All that said, I've never once sanded a core and my weapon fails have been for foam break down and flexing out; never for separation from core. Tons of people do sand and will swear by it. If you do it right, it can't hurt.

Definitely clean all the dust off before you apply the DAP.


Good info thanks, nobody ever explains HOW to sand... they just say to sand in general.

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 Post subject: Re: Layering method on a bandshop pole red question.
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 1:10 pm 
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Sluj wrote:
wrap the core with a layer of cloth tape that will give the dap something better to bond with.



actually it gives the core 2 fail points now. Not only can your glue die, but so can your tape.

This is bad advice and bad foam smiths need to stop spreading around thinking its good. Sand your core, do it right or don't do it at all.


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 Post subject: Re: Layering method on a bandshop pole red question.
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 1:23 pm 
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Varadin wrote:
Sluj wrote:
wrap the core with a layer of cloth tape that will give the dap something better to bond with.



actually it gives the core 2 fail points now. Not only can your glue die, but so can your tape.

This is bad advice and bad foam smiths need to stop spreading around thinking its good. Sand your core, do it right or don't do it at all.


It is actualy less work to sand the core then wrap it.

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 Post subject: Re: Layering method on a bandshop pole red question.
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 4:42 pm 
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if wrapping the core is tape works for you, i guess keep it up. i wouldnt do it and havent ever recomended it. sanding with a 120 grit, once over, 45 degrees to the center og the core has always worked great for me to give great adhesion and remove any machining oils.

as for foam, the 4 lbs is to give the core something to beat against that is touch enough for it not to fail, then the 2 lbs over it is getting hit across its entire width with the 4 lbs, speading the force of the core to the 4lbs then to the 2 lbs. this spreading of force softens the blow and extends the life of the 2 lbs. with round glaives the theories are similar, but with a bunch of tweeking.

as for overall ideas, i run 1 inch of 4lbs, 1 1/4 of 2 lbs and a 1 1/4 of ensolite for stabby. the 4lbs is eva, the 2 lbs is cross poly, and the ensolite is seat foam.

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 Post subject: Re: Layering method on a bandshop pole red question.
PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:07 pm 
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teh Guts wrote:
DO NOT FOR THE LOVE OF GOD USE 4# FOAM FOR INCIDENTAL! You'll probably realise this once you get some in hand but just to make sure. Pipe insulation will break down and need repair. Your best bet is to spiral wrap some 2# for longevity. Make sure you use the red fry. You can also just use regular strips of 2# foam. The fry is really only needed if you either have one in hand or want the routed layer. Just fyi


False. 4# makes an EPIC base for incidental. I've been flatted with swords with 4# flats and they hit sooo much better than a 2# flat: you don't end up with a core stripe, for one.

But, Remy, yeah, don't just use 4# or pipe insulation. Just do a SUPER long 4# box/fry from the handle to the tip and then put a layer of blue over the non-blade sections = win life.

And everyone: Listen to Bo.


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