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Fiber glass hockey stick problems.
http://board.belegarth.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=40885
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Author:  Flynn Cu Maige [ Tue Oct 30, 2012 11:22 am ]
Post subject:  Fiber glass hockey stick problems.

OK. so my Red is made of a hollow fiberglass hockey stick. Great **** core.
i use only blue foam cuz we have nothing fancy foam wise out here and im rather poor. The problem is..this weapon passes on most seasoned fighters..and even most new ones...and it always makes it through weapons check when i go places.....

But i broke some kids arm using it one handed...its a 4.5 foot sword...counterweighted but still...im not a big guy..6'0 and 165...and i broke his arm fighting Red&Board for fun...

my question is...its only at 3 layers striking. should i make it 4 or find a different core?

Ive consider it being a product of body mechanics...as boxing drilled some pretty intense snap reaction muscles over 7 years..but id like some more experienced opinions. Thanks everyone.

Author:  *Kaos* [ Tue Oct 30, 2012 1:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fiber glass hockey stick problems.

Not that I'm experienced or anything, but it sounds like you just has a killer arm( no pun intended). :axed: I would imagine an extra layer wouldn't hurt, as long as it still passes right.

Author:  Tiberius Claudius [ Tue Oct 30, 2012 1:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fiber glass hockey stick problems.

We aren't able to fully answer this question without being able to examine the weapon. That said, help us understand as best you can.

  • How long have you been fighting Bel? Building weapons? What's your annual exposure to other veteran fighters and building/checking techniques?
  • Did you hit on a sweet spot?
  • Describe the etiology and diagnosis of the injury. Was the kid frail?
  • Was it just a stroke of bad luck?

If the weapon is passing hit tests, I would say it needs to be checked again, and preferably by veteran fighters who know what they're looking for. Your weapon may indeed be perfectly fine, but we won't know unless someone in-the-know takes a peek.

I've seen reds with four layers of blue pass, but three seems like it could be too few - again, without seeing the weapon and being hit by it, it is an unknown. If you're in doubt of its safety, pull the weapon.

The problem with all blue foam on large weapons is that there is a diminishing return on blow cushioning as more layers are added. That's the beauty of construction techniques that utilize progressive foam densities.

Personally, having built reds, spears, and javs with progressive foam densities and advanced biscuit/stab tip techniques, I would never go back to just blue foam because I realize the quality and safety difference. Were I you, I would say that if I couldn't afford better materials then I wouldn't build large weapons. This is done entirely out of respect for the safety of my friends who are graciously allowing me to assault them with potentially deadly weapons.

That said, a roll of yoga mat can be had for $20 on sale in places like walmart and kmart. A package of puzzle mat floor tiles can be had for ~ $25 and you get 4, 2'x'2 sheets. Yes, you do pay a lot up front compared to a six or seven dollar roll of blue, but you can make a lot more high quality weapons if you pony up the cash. Perhaps consider it a realm purchase where everyone contributes and gets use of the materials.

Author:  Celtic Christ [ Tue Oct 30, 2012 5:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fiber glass hockey stick problems.

With cost being an issue I'd check harbor freight http://www.harborfreight.com/garage-shop/garage-accessories/4-piece-anti-fatigue-foam-mat-set-94635.html for puzzle mat. If you have a store near you with their coupons you can pick it up for around $7 a pack if you wait for the sales and coupons to coincide. On my 6' claymore I used the puzzle mat for box and an additional layer then 3 layers of blue beyond that. It's worked out great so far other than being a monstrosity for weight.

Author:  Sir Thurat [ Tue Oct 30, 2012 10:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fiber glass hockey stick problems.

Did you break his sword arm or his shield arm? If he was using an older tech shield that has the bolt heads on the outside of the shield (under the foam) then he may have had those metal studs resting against his arm. I speak from experience when I saw that a strong hit to an arm that is braced against a bolt has the potential to break bones. When I started fighting I was using a shield that was too big and had a 2" long bolt studs sticking out above my arm. I shield bashed a much larger opponent and he shoved me to the ground. I landed on the shield and my arm kept going, wrapped around the bolt, and resulted in a simple, incomplete fracture of my ulna, and a greenstick fracture of my radius that resulted in it bending out to about 15 degrees out of anatomical position.

So, it may not be you or the weapon, but perhaps the danger presented by that person's own equipment. As stated, more details are really needed to give you more sound advice.

Author:  Flynn Cu Maige [ Wed Oct 31, 2012 11:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fiber glass hockey stick problems.

* I have been fighting since..2007...forgot exactly when.
building since i started
i have it checked every two weeks at Dargarth. quite a few people there are mainly bel vets at least head weapon checkers are.
i strike with the top third of the sword mostly. block with the lower.
and i would have to say yes he is frail..hes a financially well off kid thats used to playing lighter larps...just to throw out an archetype i guess.
possibly it was immediately after a spin and i was holding it at the balance point. also..does the gold gym yoga mat work for boxes?? just recently started learning about the box thing..and thats only like 20 bucks so thats not too bad.

* no just straight to the center of his forearm

Author:  Tiberius Claudius [ Wed Oct 31, 2012 11:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fiber glass hockey stick problems.

Generally speaking, yoga mat will not work for boxes, especially on larger weapons with sturdier cores. The puzzle mat is used for boxes on those kinds of weapons because it retains its shape and absorbs the core strike whereas yoga mat is soft and would compress. Smaller weapons can handle a blue box because there isn't as much mass behind the swing; but I still wouldn't use yoga mat on them for that purpose either.

Author:  Sleeper [ Thu Nov 01, 2012 4:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fiber glass hockey stick problems.

Three layers??? And they say my swords are to dangerous (I got five). Strange how all the realms have differing views on weapon safety.

Author:  Cyric [ Thu Nov 01, 2012 5:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fiber glass hockey stick problems.

I've seen swords built on cores like that, and the problem is that they have almost no flex. all of the energy of the swing transfers to the target, instead of some of it going back into the weapon. I'm not sure that any amount or type of padding is going to fix it.

Author:  Gideon Barzel [ Fri Nov 02, 2012 8:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fiber glass hockey stick problems.

Hi all, haven't been on the boards long but I've been playing for about seven years. I seem to remember reading at one point that axe handles, and hockey sticks were illegal cores. Has this changed recently?

Author:  Celtic Christ [ Fri Nov 02, 2012 9:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fiber glass hockey stick problems.

Gideon Barzel wrote:
Hi all, haven't been on the boards long but I've been playing for about seven years. I seem to remember reading at one point that axe handles, and hockey sticks were illegal cores. Has this changed recently?


I've heard that when someone was telling me that my axe-handle axes were illegal. The only reference I've found though in the BoW is 1.3.8. All handles of wood Weapons must be taped, including bamboo and rattan.

Author:  Tiberius Claudius [ Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fiber glass hockey stick problems.

I've heard that axe handles are illegal as well.

Searching the boards, this is what I found:

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=36938&p=483590&hilit=axe+handle+axe+handle+#p483590

Essentially, legal but heavy and hard hitting. The suggestion is to turn such cores into axes or hammers where you're striking with lots of foam and not a great length of core to stripe someone with.

Author:  Celtic Christ [ Fri Nov 02, 2012 4:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fiber glass hockey stick problems.

That actually cleared it up nicely. I couldn't find any safety issue with how my axes were built and was wondering how it managed to come up in the first place.

Author:  Gideon Barzel [ Mon Nov 05, 2012 1:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fiber glass hockey stick problems.

Cool, thanks for the clarification.

Author:  Rasheab [ Tue Nov 06, 2012 6:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fiber glass hockey stick problems.

Is it 3 layers of striking foam (3 + 1 for box), or 3 layers total between the core and your opponent?

Either way, hockey sticks have very little flex (much like bandshoppe pole and square fiberglass) so more padding is probably called for. You can try a layer of yoga pad as the outermost striking layer; some people call it overkill, but it can help. But without looking at the weapon I would recommend rebuilding it; 4# box (floor mat from Harbor Freight or Walmart), blue striking layers, and maybe a yoga outermost layer, if you don't want to invest in fancier foams.

And to whoever suggested Harbor Freight earlier, yes we have them in WA (though not on the peninsula where Flynn lives).
Flynn, if you want to pay us back I'm sure someone can stop off and pick you up a pack of floor mat and give it to you at the next Dargarth shindig. It will run $20 or less (depending on sales).

Author:  Big King Jimmy [ Thu Nov 08, 2012 7:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fiber glass hockey stick problems.

The axe handle/baseball bat/compressed wood rule was from Dagorhir. It was one of the rules eleminated after the split.

Author:  Arrakis [ Wed Nov 21, 2012 3:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fiber glass hockey stick problems.

No red weapon is ever sufficiently padded with LESS than 1.5" of foam between core and striking surface.

Ever.

Bluefoam-only red weapons will require at least 4-layers of foam on a core that will pass for flex consistently for more than six months.

A hockey stick core is a) terrible because it is heavy b) terrible because it does not flex and c) terrible because it is expensive. Use a more appropriately-sized core, like 1/2" square fiberglass for a 4.5' redsword, for example.

Core mass and counterweight mass are the key contributors to impact trauma in blunt impacts from weapons like this. Heavy cores mean broken bones. You will break hands with that core, for sure.

Hope that helps.

Author:  Flynn Cu Maige [ Sat Nov 24, 2012 9:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fiber glass hockey stick problems.

Yea i am gonna make it an axe or somethin....for my sword i got a long sword fry from Forged Foam and now im just hunting for a core. but thank you guys for all your help..a switch of core is really the main thing i see.

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