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 Post subject: Red Weapon Crossguard Rules? (Monster Hunter Lance)
PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:40 pm 
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So I'm new to Belegarth and I recently constructed a Red/Green weapon last week based off of the Anti-Monster Lances from the Monster Hunter Video game series.

Image

Image


I recently brought it to an event and it was failed on grounds of the crossguard was larger than 12 inch limit and they could feel the core through the flat of the blade.

I'm currently in the process of correcting the core issue, however I couldn't dig anything up in the rules about the crossguard being 12 inches or a certain percentage of the weapon. I might have missed it in the rulebook or the rule book might be out of date. Does anyone have anymore info on this?

The weapon is sandwich style reinforced by cloth tape + dap and surrounded by a layer of perpendicular foam on the sandwich.


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 Post subject: Re: Red Weapon Crossguard Rules? (Monster Hunter Lance)
PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 8:13 pm 
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Suzaku wrote:
I couldn't dig anything up in the rules about the crossguard being 12 inches or a certain percentage of the weapon.
There isn't a specific rule against it, but large handguards can (and often will) be failed on account of:

BoW wrote:
1.4. Creative interpretation of the rules to gain any advantage is discouraged. These rules are intentionally sparse to allow for ease of use. The Marshal, according to these rules, and medieval foam combat precedent, settles all disputes.


Your ludicrously huge handguard could be seen as an attempt to gain an unfair advantage since it functions as an unbreakable shield. Reasonably sized crossguards and handguards are allowed, but that's because there's plenty of precedent in Belegarth and historically. They also look cool.

Here's an example of how to do a crossguard.
Image
Annnd a handguard.
Image
Some people will put hooks on their poles to manipulate shields and such.
Image
There's a good reason that veterans of this game universally recommend that new guys start by constructing more conventional gear and learning fundamentals before going wild and making a keyblade. I would strongly encourage you to rebuild your lance into something that will be more likely to pass and more effective on the field. If later on you want to add embellishments or build your dream weapon, you'll have the experience and street cred to pull it off.

Welcome to Bel.

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 Post subject: Re: Red Weapon Crossguard Rules? (Monster Hunter Lance)
PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 9:17 pm 
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Giggles wrote:
Suzaku wrote:
I couldn't dig anything up in the rules about the crossguard being 12 inches or a certain percentage of the weapon.
There isn't a specific rule against it, but large handguards can (and often will) be failed on account of:

BoW wrote:
1.4. Creative interpretation of the rules to gain any advantage is discouraged. These rules are intentionally sparse to allow for ease of use. The Marshal, according to these rules, and medieval foam combat precedent, settles all disputes.


Your ludicrously huge handguard could be seen as an attempt to gain an unfair advantage since it functions as an unbreakable shield. Reasonably sized crossguards and handguards are allowed, but that's because there's plenty of precedent in Belegarth and historically. They also look cool.

Welcome to Bel.


Thanks, so far I'm enjoying this sport immensely.

That makes sense to me. I was actually just trying to match a weapon from a video game I play as you can see from the second picture that the crossguard or shield or whatever it's called is actually covering the character's arm.

I'm not too interested in conventional combat as I've done it before and it gets pretty monotonous after a while. Plus I like things a little on the crazy side.

I think you're missing a cutlass crossguard too which mine sorta looks similar to.

I was thinking about putting a spearhook or toothed backside to my lance so I can manipulate shields, but that might come at a later date when I get more experienced in its use and figure out how to carry a shield with such a large weapon. Currently I'm just enjoying feet swiping people under their shields with it and that's about it so far.


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 Post subject: Re: Red Weapon Crossguard Rules? (Monster Hunter Lance)
PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 10:08 pm 
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Off topic, but I would recommend making a more reasonable sized Red sword, something in the 4-5' range. You'll be much much more effective. BUT, if you don't mind being ineffective and are having fun with your giant sword, by all means, continue with the giant sword. Also check out the BoR group on Facebook for red weapon fighting and construction tips. Anyone is welcome there and it is the best resource for anything red weapon related.

http://www.facebook.com/groups/178433162242769/?fref=ts

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 Post subject: Re: Red Weapon Crossguard Rules? (Monster Hunter Lance)
PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 10:28 pm 
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It's primarily designed to be used in a similar fashion to a spear, though it works pretty good as a red too especially at chopping feet.


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 Post subject: Re: Red Weapon Crossguard Rules? (Monster Hunter Lance)
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 1:20 am 
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Um, where are you? With which realm do you fight? Is it a newer realm?

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 Post subject: Re: Red Weapon Crossguard Rules? (Monster Hunter Lance)
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 1:39 am 
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I'm actually not even in a realm yet but I am looking for one. The nearest populated ones are Andúril and Abaddon.

The Black Sun Empire is located pretty closeby but it seems to be pretty sparse nowadays.

Oh yeah, forgot to mention. The lance failed at Battle of the Rings V today. I have a new updated version which I fixed up today when I got home with a far smaller handguard and extra padded faceted blade to go through the weapon check tomorrow.. I'll have pictures of it up tomorrow.


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 Post subject: Re: Red Weapon Crossguard Rules? (Monster Hunter Lance)
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 2:03 am 
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http://www.geddon.org/index.php/Experim ... eapons_FAQ

Found this while running through the wiki. The ruleset might need to be updated. The 12 inch rule is in this faq too.


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 Post subject: Re: Red Weapon Crossguard Rules? (Monster Hunter Lance)
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:20 pm 
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Suzaku wrote:
http://www.geddon.org/index.php/Experimental_Weapons_FAQ

Found this while running through the wiki. The ruleset might need to be updated. The 12 inch rule is in this faq too.


The only line I see in there referencing 12 inches on a handguard is:

"Most realms will fail for playability any handguard that’s as large as a shield is – try to keep it under 12” diameter (the minimum size for a buckler)."

That is not a rule, but an observation of what you will see typically in Bel; exactly as Giggles stated above. The rule that Giggles references is the closest rule as to why most weapons checkers will fail an obscenely large crossguard.

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 Post subject: Re: Red Weapon Crossguard Rules? (Monster Hunter Lance)
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:17 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2010 5:23 pm
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Favorite Fighting Styles: Sword and Board
Spear
Suzaku, I know the guy who runs Blacksun Empire. His name is Tartarus, and he would love to have new members in his realm. Consistency and stability are key to a healthy realm. It might be small now, but with some core, dedicated fighters, that number will grow. If you are serious about fighting, get out there every week, support a realm, and swing foam as much as you can. This sport lives and dies by how much we put into it ourselves; we can't just rely on other people to put in the work while we reap the benefits.

Yes, your weapon was failed at the event, but you seem to be excited about the sport and creative, and those are two traits any realm can use. Take that enthusiasm and energy and apply it and you'll get way more out of this sport.


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 Post subject: Re: Red Weapon Crossguard Rules? (Monster Hunter Lance)
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:18 pm 
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and feel free to use the resources here, in PM's here or on Facebook, to get answers to your questions even before you build. California is a great place to be for networking and we love it when people get involved. Winter has excellent advice here and getting more people in that area (making some ties to Hemet, CA and Anaheim, CA) will really start making a Belegarth-style Pony Express in that inland area. You can be one of the people to start helping that region.

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 Post subject: Re: Red Weapon Crossguard Rules? (Monster Hunter Lance)
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:32 am 
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winter wrote:
Suzaku, I know the guy who runs Blacksun Empire. His name is Tartarus, and he would love to have new members in his realm. Consistency and stability are key to a healthy realm. It might be small now, but with some core, dedicated fighters, that number will grow. If you are serious about fighting, get out there every week, support a realm, and swing foam as much as you can. This sport lives and dies by how much we put into it ourselves; we can't just rely on other people to put in the work while we reap the benefits.

Yes, your weapon was failed at the event, but you seem to be excited about the sport and creative, and those are two traits any realm can use. Take that enthusiasm and energy and apply it and you'll get way more out of this sport.


Yep! I met Tartarus and we had a blast running around defeating the enemy. My hometown is Riverside, however work has caused me to move to Lake Elsinore temporarily so it would be and there is a fledgling realm that plans on launching for real this year in Lake Elsinore and I hope to be part of them.

The weapon did fail on my first day at the event, however I took it home and made the necessary modifications so that I could use it on the second day! Where it passed with flying colors minus the stab tip (Apparently open celled stabbing tips are 1980s technology) and I plan on redoing the entire striking surface of the blade with yoga mat sometime this week!

Image

Anastasia of Chamonix wrote:
and feel free to use the resources here, in PM's here or on Facebook, to get answers to your questions even before you build. California is a great place to be for networking and we love it when people get involved. Winter has excellent advice here and getting more people in that area (making some ties to Hemet, CA and Anaheim, CA) will really start making a Belegarth-style Pony Express in that inland area. You can be one of the people to start helping that region.


Thanks for putting together the event Anastasia, for my first time ever playing Belegarth I had a blast and hope to stop by one of your practices sometime soon. I'm getting really involved on facebook and soaking up as much info as possible and now I'm trying to recruit my friends!

P.S. Did you know anyone named Julie by any chance Anastasia? She just transferred to Hawaii and was a student at UCI.


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 Post subject: Re: Red Weapon Crossguard Rules? (Monster Hunter Lance)
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:27 pm 
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I don't think I know or remember Julie, but I am very excited that you had a blast and are ready to help out inland getting that group up and running. Feel free to come down and play or build with us and of course we will be happy to come up and visit you guys soon. Let's get all these groups growing!

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 Post subject: Re: Red Weapon Crossguard Rules? (Monster Hunter Lance)
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:35 pm 
Forum Gordon Ramsay
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You need to make it more lance, less sword. Chop of half the blade, turn it into incidental/courtesy padding and then you might actually find yourself killing on a regular basis.
Also if you like monster hunter you HAVE to try out Dragon's Dogma. Do it now!

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 Post subject: Re: Red Weapon Crossguard Rules? (Monster Hunter Lance)
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:14 pm 
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^BS


These monstrous swords are very effective, but only with years of experience and you must have extreme athletism. I used to use six foot redswords all the time (took its toll on my body though) and no other redweapon could stop me, even longer glaives. But, they are support weapons, used more in a polearm fashion than sword like (which is what you were aiming for right?) However, one on one against skilled shield men you probably will stand little chance. The real life historical versions were called "parade swords", more symbol than function but the FEAR they inspire is immense, also the danger aspect, shorter hilt than a glaive means less control. If you choose to stick with this awesome weapon, focus on being safe before being effective (weapon control)

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 Post subject: Re: Red Weapon Crossguard Rules? (Monster Hunter Lance)
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 11:44 pm 
Forum Gordon Ramsay
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:l
Uh-huh.
This thing isn't like 6' more like 8' but prolly 10'.
I watched a former SEAL use it and kinda almost be able to wield it in a proper fashion but he mostly just called it a joke weapon. :armor5:

I watched video of you using it and you look like your having fun I just think that you'd be better off turning this into a believable weapon.

I said you were having fun and coupled with another, faster red-user specifically Tartarus you might see some great returns that are gonna feel really good. But it's only gonna see you so far and might possible stunt your potential early on. Like me using rebar on a pell, it built of proper shot-mechanics but stunted my speed. I can only guess what this is gonna do to you.

I guess I kinda won an award for excellence in Belegarth at BftR, where I saw you Suzaku. Tartarus was rolling with me at the time and I was able to show him how to take out people in close quarters and that is where I draw the line; if you are unable to wield your polearm or great weapon in CQC you are doing it wrong.

As a fervent red-user this is a big part of my style; you should be able to take on any S&B guy alone or with buddies like in the video and win on a consistant basis. Inspiring fear is all well in good but just 'parading' round your ridiculous weapon makes you seem like you're compensating for something. j/k lololololol

This is your new best friend.

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Bishop wrote:
Overall I believe the article was positive for our image, loosely defining us as a sadomasochist anti-larp. I'm ok with that. http://www.vice.com/en_ca/read/LARP-harder

Caleidah wrote:
But, his sensei passed that style down to him! Literal hours of tradition!


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 Post subject: Re: Red Weapon Crossguard Rules? (Monster Hunter Lance)
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 8:02 pm 
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Remy, I miss fighting with your lil *. Also
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 Post subject: Re: Red Weapon Crossguard Rules? (Monster Hunter Lance)
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 8:19 pm 
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Something I have noticed is that with the longer your red, the quicker your feet need to be. In my own experience, when facing a punch shield user, you can generally power through, especially on leg shots, while side-stepping. Against a strap shield, though, I would suggest just moving a lot, and waiting for them to strike.

When they do, you can power through their hit and hit the sword arm, or cause an anvil, which takes the arm anyway. Successful red users tend to be fast as hell, at least from a short range stand point.

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 Post subject: Re: Red Weapon Crossguard Rules? (Monster Hunter Lance)
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 8:51 pm 
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Son of Kyles Mom wrote:
Successful red users tend to be fast as hell.

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 Post subject: Re: Red Weapon Crossguard Rules? (Monster Hunter Lance)
PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 10:13 pm 
Brute
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I don't remember where I heard this quote but its truth.

Min reds=You move the sword.
Big reds=The sword moves you.


"My zweihander is my portable stripper pole"

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 Post subject: Re: Red Weapon Crossguard Rules? (Monster Hunter Lance)
PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 5:53 pm 
Forum Gordon Ramsay
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Purp, I gave you a core that matches the Lil' Bastid. ****'s fun and all, I shave off 2" so now it's actually minMINred. My claymore is a lot more fun, ****'s almost 60". That thing is savage.

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Bishop wrote:
Overall I believe the article was positive for our image, loosely defining us as a sadomasochist anti-larp. I'm ok with that. http://www.vice.com/en_ca/read/LARP-harder

Caleidah wrote:
But, his sensei passed that style down to him! Literal hours of tradition!


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