WANTED: Middle Eastern Garb Advice

[Arrakis]

Sup? o garb Lords that I know lurk this forum. I seek wisdom.


I wish to make myself some of the loose, light, flowing clothing of the medieval middle east to fight in during the blistering summer months. Unfortunately, I really have no idea what that entails. It's hard enough for me to even find references to the styles and names of garments throughout time and space in that region, let alone finding patterns.

I know light 100% cottons and some linens are likely to be my textiles of choice, possibly incorporating some wools as I get farther east in the Persia region, but that's about the sum of my knowledge.


Enlighten me!

[Soo Ma Tai]

I have a friend n the SCA who has a middle eastern persona. I will see if I can hit him up for some info for you.

[Arrakis]

Thanks, Soo! I knew there were more SCAdians with Mid-E characters; I really should hit up the AA...

[Soo Ma Tai]

If you can find him on there, his name is Sir Dahoud, at least last I knew it was. Ask him directly. I will still try to get in contact with him. I have him on facebook.

[Isk]

Arrakis,
What you are looking for is called Salwar. The pants are pretty easy to make, I have two different designs linked from the equipment page on our site. The "Eastern European pants" linked there also work well and look similar. I love these pants!
*Don't use too heavy a fabric or it will stick out in front or back and looks ... odd.

[Satanaka]

V-Hil from Uruk-Hai has some middle east garb

[Soo Ma Tai]

If you want to get a hold of V-Hil, I would suggest going through Madog. The Uruk boards are down and I know V-hil is not currently fighting much since he is in academy.

[Halbrust]

My next project is a pair of salwar. With the authentic 100 inch waiste.

Right now I'm using a pair of grey pajama pants as a substitute.

[Awen]

Renstore sells patterns for that kind of garb. I almost bought one to make a Gwazee coat. They had a great men's pattern for pants and a loose jacket. I think it even had a head wrap.

[Oisin]

Any idea which specific culture or time period you want?

Middle East is a bit away from me, but I'll see what I can dig up . . .

[Arrakis]

Any idea which specific culture or time period you want?

Middle East is a bit away from me, but I'll see what I can dig up . . .

Embarrassing to say, but, no, I don't. I've found it really difficult to find any era-specific information about the non-Western Europe parts of Europe.

[Oisin]

Have you looked through the IWTB threads on the Armour Archive? Anything interesting from there? I haven't looked for those threads, but it seems that the whole site is pretty dedicated to Europe.

And are you looking for Eastern Europe or the Middle East? I thought you were looking for Middle East, but now you're talking about Europe?

Do you even know whether you want to be an Arab, a Turk or a Persian? Those are the main groups going on over there (besides Crusaders, I mean) during most of the middle ages.

[Oisin]

Possibly relevant I Want to Be threads:

Ayyubid Under Saladin

12th c. Seljuks

12th century Persian Ghulam

650 AD Persian

14th c. Moors

Late 12th. c. Ethiopian knight

And my favorite, and perfectly on target for what you're looking for:

14th C. English Woman of ludicrous wantonness

[Arrakis]

Thanks, Oisin.

Yeah, no, I kinda suck at life. I could probably figure out what I'm talking about, but... I'm exam-busy. If any of you know any good patterns for midEast clothing (thawbs, curta-type things, etc.), that'd be great, as I intend to make all of this stuff, eventually.

[Ilariia Bulochnika]

Sounds like you may want Persians & Arabs more; from what little I've seen, Turks seem to be a bit more nomadic (think Slavs or other steppe tribes) and less "typical ME".

Then again, you could always go this route:

[Oisin]

Sounds like you may want Persians & Arabs more; from what little I've seen, Turks seem to be a bit more nomadic (think Slavs or other steppe tribes) and less "typical ME".

Then again, you could always go this route:

You, sir, win.

[HesinRaca]

Might have some ideas here

Silk Road Armoury

[Oisin]

Try that:

Silk Road Design Armoury

Code: Select all

[url=http://www.geocities.com/athens/olympus/3505/]Silk Road Design Armoury[/url]

[HesinRaca]

Bahaha, sorry, I am editing two pages at once and tried to do that too quickly.

Winter Wolf Forge
and
Mounted Archery

if anyone's curious.

[Isk]

If you are thinking steppe/nomadic tribes the list from redkaganate is useful. If you decide you want to go Slav/Eastern European or Steppe I will be happy to look a little further for patterns on the Russian internet. They have some pretty sweet reenactment groups, there is a great deal of research into the steppe and the Middle East and much more of their archaeological material is available online (not as helpful with clothes, but very interesting with armor and more durable stuff). Copyright is a much more flexible concept in the former Soviet Block

You could just go Mongol -- comfy pants loose bathrobe top and the hair is awesome.


If you like that, here is a sewing pattern for the Khalat
And a pattern for the Caftan

[Arrakis]

Thanks! That's some pretty cool stuff.


Maybe I should just have called the thread: "Looking for patterns for garb that was worn by the people who lived in like 120 degree F, 98% humidity areas so I can wear it in the summertime and look cool while staying cool"...

I doubt that would have fit in the Subject window.

[Isk]

That is exactly how I started using the Salwar. I live in the red rock country of Southern Utah, it's not Phoenix, but it's bloody hot all summer. The Salwar has been a great solution, done in the more moderate 45" waist it doesn't look out of place with western tunics, it's cool and very easy to move in.

[Ilariia Bulochnika]

If you are thinking steppe/nomadic tribes the list from redkaganate is useful. If you decide you want to go Slav/Eastern European or Steppe I will be happy to look a little further for patterns on the Russian internet. They have some pretty sweet reenactment groups, there is a great deal of research into the steppe and the Middle East and much more of their archaeological material is available online (not as helpful with clothes, but very interesting with armor and more durable stuff). Copyright is a much more flexible concept in the former Soviet Block

I would be interested in the Eastern Slav stuff. The hubby and I are working on 900 C. Eastern Slav & Rüs around Novgorod.

[Isk]

Novgorod, eh. Novgorod is awesome, 900 would be just after it was founded, though, so still smallish with power mostly still in Kiev and Ryurik's city to the south. You probably already know it, but Novgorod has some of the coolest preservation of organics in the world and fabric studies there have been really interesting. One good, basic image from The Ancient Rus: Life and Culture shows dress for city dwellers.


Here are peasant dresses from the same source:

One of the great things about Novgorod and the Rus in General is that you can use almost any natural fabric. Cotton, wool, silk and linen are all found in graves throughout the area (settled end of the silk road).

Here is an image of shoes taken from the same reference. I find the split toe shoe very interesting, personally and it appears during the same time that tabi became common in Japan.


I can look for patterns for the platno and the pants shown above if this is what you are looking for. I hope this helps and if you want further references on fabrics or whatever I can give them to you, they are mostly available on the web, but in Russian.

[Ilariia Bulochnika]

I would love links, biblios, books, whatever research links you've got. I've gotten some references & patterns started, but I would like to do a lot of the patterning footwork myself so I can put it towards future A&S entries. Thanks for the help, btw.

Sorry to jack your thread Arrakis

[Arrakis]

As long as I get to collect new and exciting things to sew, I love a good threadjacking!

[Isk]

Ok, I don't know how helpful these will be without a working knowledge of Russian, but here are a few:
This link is one of the best, giving several books with lots of information. Like I said, copyright is flexible so they can put some of the best books available right out on the web. It rocks.
The library at http://www.archeologia.ru is a pretty comprehensive collection of the Russian archaeological literature and is all searchable online.
The Wardrobe Room Forum at tozhe gorod is also a great reference for discussion of Slavic and Eurasian Clothing.
There are a variety of reenactment sites and stuff, but I think tozhe gorod will give you the cream of the links.

Seriously, though, I would be happy to help you research and put together info on Russian and Steppe related costuming, armor, etc. So if you want to move the discussion to pm, chat or email I would be happy to continue to facilitate or participate in whatever you have in mind. My background in Russian Archaeology is primarily with iron artefacts, but I can expand into clothing

[Isk]

Missed a couple of useful ones specific to Novgorod.
This one is even available in English, but I am not sure if all the content is there. Never read it in English.
Another archaeology database, The Server of East European Archaeology, also available in English.
And The Hermitage has many of it's pieces available online.
*Edit: just adding a couple more, this piqued my interest now.
The Kremlin Museum. Both of the above are likely too ornate, though.
In English and SCA affiliated here.
Archcostume.ru - pretty straightforward and applicable, but in Russian.
Tozhe Forum thread on Russian pants, pattern idea.
Another obvious one I skipped, the guide to the Wardrobe Room
Kay, I'll leave it alone for a little while.

*One more link: - xlegio has a lot of good material online as well

[Ilariia Bulochnika]

<3. Yeah, I may want to move this off board at a later date. Still wading through other research I have sitting at the house as well.

Thanks again

[Khai]

Hi there.

I'm new to this chatboard, and this group. I was doing a search online for some clothing patterns and came across this garb thread. I'm a SCAdian and I'm a fairly good seamstress. I have a ton of patterns, including one for the Salwars that were mentioned ( i have three pair, including heavy canvas ones I fight in, and though they do that weird crotch thing, they are really comfy). I just thought I would offer suggestions or answer any questions I can.

I have a Mongolian persona and a few of my pieces are more Eastern Asian influence, but I have access to a ton of patterns for different countries. If you'd like me to find anyone a few, I'd be happy to.

I signed on with my persona name just in case any other SCA friends happen to play with your group as well.

Feel free to contact me by email as well.

allegrasemail@yahoo.com

Hope I can help!

Khai