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 Post subject: Re: For Forkbeard - Garb Offenders
PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 9:45 pm 
Toadie
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Here's a piece of fresh meat for FB to rip into for trying to pass armor as garb.

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 Post subject: Re: For Forkbeard - Garb Offenders
PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 11:42 pm 
Mercenary
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Azgarehta wrote:
Just answering to Peanut's point: I think that junk stabs are effective as negative reinforcement. Not only does it teach a lesson, but it just may remove said reproductive capabilities from the gene pool.

We don't want these people spawning.


Thank you. Try one on a miscreant near you.


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 Post subject: Re: For Forkbeard - Garb Offenders
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 12:22 am 
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Quote:
No, I'm actually the realm leader out here too. I've told him before that on required garb days we have twice a month, he wont be fighting in that stuff. I'd love to see it gone entirely, but we've got a split in the realm out here about whether or not his **** qualifies as garb. Obviously, I don't think it does and I've told him and others on numerous occasions. Guess I gotta stop worrying about losing members, just nut up and say "not on my field"


I might suggest doing what my own realm leaders do to anyone not in garb, whom they don't want fighting with us:
Inform them that technically what we are all doing out there on the field is legally considered 'assault'. Striking another person with a weapon, even if it is constructed of foam, is illegal. That's part of why we sign legal waivers.

You inform the person that you do NOT give them permission to strike you, and if they do so anyways, you will file a lawsuit against them, as they were clearly not following the 'rules' of your sport.

The only thing that separates us from a gang of hoodlums is that we're wearing medieval clothing and armor. Take that away, and we're just a bunch of idiots hitting each other with sticks.
Well, we still are, but at least we dressed up for it, and that's surprisingly important. In baseball, it's a rule that team members can't be on the field unless they're wearing the uniform of their team. That's why baseball managers wear uniforms. If they didn't, they wouldn't be allowed on the field. If they tried to come onto the field without a uniform, they would be ejected from the game.

In football, for another example, a player can sack a QB and break his femur. No lawsuit can be filed. They were within the rules of the game. If the same player tears off that QBs helmet and socks him in the nose, a lawsuit can be filed.
Your case might be weak, but usually the threat of legal action is quite enough to deter anyone from participation. And if this doesn't deter them, you could always try to follow through with the legal action.

Of course, I'm no lawyer, and this might all just be bullcrap that our realm leaders tell us to make sure we wear garb, but it seems to work fairly well. It doesn't seem like it should be too far from the mark, however, and it would probably be fairly simple to get your group 'up to speed' to make this a legal reality.

This might be the ultimate form of 'garb nazi', but if you're a realm leader, you get to make these decisions. And as seems to be the consensus of a good deal of the more intelligent posters on this board, you'd rather have 1 good, rule-following fighter than a handful of jerks in jeans, or morons trying hard to skirt the rules.

As for the argument that it's 'ambiguously period', the simplest way to handle that is to tell the offending person:
"Alright. If you can get me a citation from a leading individual in the field of medieval history, (I.E., a college professor of medieval history, or someone involved in historical sciences regarding that period) that says what you're wearing is typical of that period in history, I'll allow it on my field. Currently, I don't have enough information to feel assured that it IS, truly, period garb."

Then just sit back and wait for his 'expert' to call you and inform you that his stupid attempt at 'garb' is 'typical clothing for that period in history'. I'll bet you don't get that call.

Realm leaders have to understand that it ain't no democracy. The difficulties realm leaders seem to have are these two questions:
Is this good for my realm?
Is this good for the sport?

Sadly, the two questions don't always have the same answer.
If you garb-nazi, you're maintaining the dignity of the sport, but you might be losing a lot of members of your realm. For those who see 'numbers' as being the important factor in a realm, this is self-destructive.

If you don't garb-nazi, your realm will make the sport look bad, especially if you fight in a public area. Not requiring garb will likely gain you a lot of members, however. People who are willing to 'play' but aren't willing to commit themselves to the sport enough to get some sweat-pants, a plain shirt, and a square of cloth with a neck hole to throw over it. (It doesn't take much to have period garb, after all. Poorly made clothing is VERY period.)



Here's how we rank for new fighters in Riverbend:
After 3 practices a player must have at least a single piece of period garb.
After six practices a player must have full garb.
(Practices are weekly, so this means you have nearly 2 months to get garb after the first practice you attend, provided you come to practice every week.)

Players without full garb after 6 practices are 'peasants', and can only fight single-blue (Has a length restriction, also. I think it's 36" but I don't know for sure. I've never fought without garb.)
Players not following these rules are not considered part of our 'sport', and thus do NOT have permission to strike us on the field.

We also have annual 'crafting days' which are held at realm leaders houses, where they will allow you the use of cloth and sewing machines, as well as their considerable experience with sewing. (On crafting days the cloth is free for anyone who fights with us, so long as you finish whatever you're making with it before you leave.)
As well as the crafting days, we have a few people in the realm that are more than willing to help anyone sew, or even sew something for them, provided they purchase the cloth themselves.

Given how far our realm members are willing to go 'out of their way' to make sure people are in garb, we refuse to accept excuses for not having garb.

We also have a few pieces of loaner-garb on-hand in case someone forgets their garb. A few tabards for this purpose can be a life-saver for any pictures taken. The downside for anyone using loaner garb is that it doesn't get washed very often. And I use the loaner tabard that I carry in my bag to clean up after particularly wild parties. Plus it usually sits under 50 lbs of my own smelly gear all week.

Loaner garb, however, doesn't count toward removing your 'peasant' status, unless the realm leader deems it so. (Sometimes people accidentally forget their garb, or have an honest excuse for not having it.)

In summary, don't let people ruin the sport because they have some juvenile need to 'rebel' and 'fight the establishment'. Rebelling against foam-fighting groups is like auditing the IRS. We already control all the 'rebelling against society' interests. It's so stupid that generally people don't even recognize it for what it is when they see it. A childish attempt by a selfish person to make them feel special.


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 Post subject: Re: For Forkbeard - Garb Offenders
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 6:41 am 
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Quote:
I might suggest doing what my own realm leaders do to anyone not in garb, whom they don't want fighting with us:
Inform them that technically what we are all doing out there on the field is legally considered 'assault'. Striking another person with a weapon, even if it is constructed of foam, is illegal. That's part of why we sign legal waivers.

You inform the person that you do NOT give them permission to strike you, and if they do so anyways, you will file a lawsuit against them, as they were clearly not following the 'rules' of your sport.



Good god, this is the most aweful way to get people to do what you want.
You are saying,"Iam a little * and I'll call the cops on you if you dont wear garb!" What sorry * needs to "go tell on" people? I would not only quit your group if I HEARD you threaten some one with this, I would start another group in your town to put yours under.
Making people wear garb and follow the rules is important, but NOT being the biggest pussies in the world and NOT looking like spoiled children is important, too.
Do any of you really think that the cops wouldn't just laugh at you for trying to press charges against some one like this? They should lock YOU up for wasting thier time.

**** Riverbend! Just make em wear sashes.
FB

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 Post subject: Re: For Forkbeard - Garb Offenders
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 6:43 am 
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Maybe it becuase I'm from the getto, but what you guys are doing is snitching.
Calling the cops on some one is being a SNITCH.
Where I come from, that is the lowest thing you can do, unless it is literaly the last resort before murder.

In my neigborhood, snitches get stitches.
FB

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 Post subject: Re: For Forkbeard - Garb Offenders
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 8:17 am 
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Maximian wrote:
Of course, I'm no lawyer


BLINDINGLY obvious.

Maximian wrote:
this is all just bullcrap


Congratulations; your Realm leaders are losers who've figured out how to cow idiots and kids. Try that **** on someone with a brain sometime.


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 Post subject: Re: For Forkbeard - Garb Offenders
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 10:13 am 
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Quote:
Congratulations; your Realm leaders are losers who've figured out how to cow idiots and kids. Try that **** on someone with a brain sometime.


Try what, exactly? Informing them that they aren't allowed to participate in the sport with us due to not following our rules? I guess they'd use their brains to tell us that they 'can to'?

From Wikipedia:

Consent may be a complete or partial defense to assault. In some jurisdictions, most notably England, it is not a defense where the degree of injury is severe, as long as there is no legally recognized good reason for the assault.[9] ----- Legally recognized good reasons for consent include; surgery, activities within the rules of a game (Mixed martial arts, wrestling, boxing, or contact sports), bodily adornment (R v Wilson), or horseplay (Jones and others). However, any activity outside the rules of the game is not legally recognized as a defense of consent. In Scottish Law, consent is not a defense for assault.

Again, the case is weak, but it is there. Any idiot can see that it's possible to press the issue. If there are two people practicing martial arts in the park, I can't just run in and punch one of them in the head just because 'they were doing it to each other'. You must be recognized as a participant and operate within their rules. Garb is a rule.

Quote:
Maybe it becuase I'm from the getto, but what you guys are doing is snitching.
Calling the cops on some one is being a SNITCH.
Where I come from, that is the lowest thing you can do, unless it is literaly the last resort before murder.

In my neigborhood, snitches get stitches.
FB


No one has ever actually called the police for this reason, of course, and no one ever really has any intention to do so. But generally, when you tell someone that "You can't do this because I said so.", the whole 'freedom' thing kicks on in the back of their brain and the instantly want nothing more than to defy everything you say, because you are the source of adversity.

However, generally, when you tell someone that 'you can't do this because it's the law, and bears civil and criminal penalties.' they consider what you're saying a little bit harder before they start defying it.

We've never had a problem with garb, like a lot of other realms seem to (apart from people occasionally 'forgetting it at home'). In fact most of our members have very good garb. This is the only reason I suggest this method. Either it works, or we just have a good group of guys.

I hadn't thought about the whole 'being from the ghetto' part, though. Yes, amendment: I suggest using this idea, unless you stand a very good chance of getting knifed (by a non-foam weapon) for mentioning 'police'.

Quote:
Do any of you really think that the cops wouldn't just laugh at you for trying to press charges against some one like this? They should lock YOU up for wasting thier time.


I dunno, man. The cops are pretty intimidated by us. A cop drives through the park we practice at once every 4-5 hours or so. Police have stopped by our practices on two separate occasions asking if we were a 'gang' because they were investigating 'gang activity'. As a result, we printed out business cards. We figured not many gangs have business cards.

Quote:
You are saying,"Iam a little * and I'll call the cops on you if you dont wear garb!" What sorry * needs to "go tell on" people?


Again, we've never actually done so. And we don't just 'call the cops' every time someone shows up without garb. I was replying to an extreme circumstance that I seem to remember seeing on this board, where a person continued to fight, and was 'ignored' by another player for not having garb. (I read through the entire thread all at once, so it was all still fresh in my head at the time I posted.)

Ignoring this persons attacks would not be 'breaking rules', as BoW requires garb. Thus, a person not in garb is not following the BoW. A person not following the BoW is not following the rules of the game. Thus, that person is not legally participating in the sport. Therefore, their actions do not have 'consent' granted by waivers. If you inform that person, in no uncertain terms, that if they 'swing' at you, you will consider it 'assault', as defined by the law, they might be more apt to consider leaving your field.

Obviously it's a scare tactic, but it's not as though it's terrorism. You're giving the person legal encouragement to follow the rules. Following the rules is important. Disregarding the rules ruins it for everyone.


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 Post subject: Re: For Forkbeard - Garb Offenders
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 12:25 pm 
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You are a rules lawyering little *, aren't you? That seem to run deep in you people.
If you threaten to call the cops, ever, to get people to follow the rules, you have utterly failed as an athority figure. You must be a * and have no place trying to lead french fries to your mouth, let alone people in to battle.
People in any proper realm follow the rules becuase the people in charge **** SAY to follow the rules. Whatever your rules are, you should enforce them with your own personality. People listen to me because(in person) I am well spoken and come across as a person who knows not only the rules, but what is best for the comunity. People can tell from talking to me that I love this game and would never do anything to lessen it in any way. That is what they should get from ANY leader worth a ****. Needing to call in a higher authority make you look like a *.

Quote:
I was replying to an extreme circumstance that I seem to remember seeing on this board, where a person continued to fight, and was 'ignored' by another player for not having garb. (I read through the entire thread all at once, so it was all still fresh in my head at the time I posted.)

Ignoring this persons attacks would not be 'breaking rules', as BoW requires garb. Thus, a person not in garb is not following the BoW. A person not following the BoW is not following the rules of the game

I completely disagree with this entire idea. Yes, garbless people are breaking the rules. BUT 2 wrongs dont make a right, *. Just becuase one guy cheats, that sure as hell does NOT give you the right to cheat as well. Acording to YOUR twisted thinking, when you accidently hit me in the head, I can hit you in the head back. This is **** retarded.
IF there is a garbless person fighting on your field, they are there because the people in charge allowed them to be. Who the **** are YOU to just up and decide that they can play with everyone else, but not YOU. **** you, you arrogant puke.
I am all for hassling the ungarbed, especialy hassling their friends who DO have garb. But I do not advocate simply ignoring anyone in combat. When I have to do a serious garb police action, I leave the field and loose my weapons, then go about the serious hassle.
There is a time for trying to get people dressed, IN COMBAT is not the time. Between battles, during water breaks, at lunch, but in the middle of a 5 minute battle, just kill the **** and move on.
FB

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 Post subject: Re: For Forkbeard - Garb Offenders
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 10:38 pm 
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Maximian wrote:
I might suggest doing what my own realm leaders do to anyone not in garb, whom they don't want fighting with us:
Inform them that technically what we are all doing out there on the field is legally considered 'assault'. Striking another person with a weapon, even if it is constructed of foam, is illegal. That's part of why we sign legal waivers.

You inform the person that you do NOT give them permission to strike you, and if they do so anyways, you will file a lawsuit against them, as they were clearly not following the 'rules' of your sport.


I havent laughed so hard in a long time. Thanks Maximian. You are yet another tool who does not actually understand the legal system. To get anywhere with your argument in court, you would have to hire a fantastic lawyer, and something tells me that you dont have the dough or the brains to do it. Im not one to usually flame people, but god * thats retarded.

You would be laughed right out of court.

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 Post subject: Re: For Forkbeard - Garb Offenders
PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2011 1:17 am 
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Caleidah wrote:
You could throw the yellow **** off the field if he doesn't cover it or add contrasting colors, claiming that he would be indistinguishable from a herald in the fray.

For the pink...just throw bleach on him. Ruin that ****. Jump on his back and drum on his forehead. SOMETHING.



Just be careful with the bleach, if it gets on his face or in his eyes it might burn him pretty bad and well his garb sucks major ***, bleach burns are not fun...

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 Post subject: Re: For Forkbeard - Garb Offenders
PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2011 11:01 am 
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You don't have to censor your posts yourself. The filter does it for you, that way people that want to read the curses can turn off the filter and sin all day.

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Elebrim wrote:
...I question why lately it seems like we must do everything that Amtgard does or else we are no longer the best fighters. I don't think it's right or necessary.


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 Post subject: Re: For Forkbeard - Garb Offenders
PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2011 2:05 am 
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Lachlan_McClung wrote:
No'Vak: I usually have my Duchy Leader's blessing for such silliness. He's desperately afraid of personal confrontation, so it's difficult to get him to talk to people about things like that. This all takes place, mind you, after multiple people have spoken to the person, after they've been fighting for more than a month or two, and after I have personally offered to make them garb for what I assure you is a very small fee.


Image

Case. In. ****. Point.
I'm of course referring to the two ragbags in the middle of the pic(Captain KneePads and **** Cheetara).
But after confronting the Duchy Leader to no avail, Clan McClung made it our mission to beat the **** out of these two spuds. It worked. Thudercat ditched the hoody, and Lach made the kneepad kid cry, so he quit showing.

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 Post subject: Re: For Forkbeard - Garb Offenders
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 1:31 pm 
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FIRST
Sorry for bumping an old threat, but I saw something that I needed to bring up.

Skeith, the Forsaken wrote:
Also I can address Capt. America. He's actually being serious, no joke on the get up. That's a guy named Nebel who is part of the National Guard. he shows great pride in his devotion to the US Military.


I've gotta say no.
Former Army myself.
He's wearing his uniform incorrectly; those pants are part of his uniform. You can't just wear 'part' of your uniform at your leisure whenever you want.
It's not only a punishable offence, but it's extremely disrespectful, and should NOT be allowed.


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 Post subject: Re: For Forkbeard - Garb Offenders
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 5:39 pm 
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This wasnt bumping. This was reaching into the pits of hell and ripping it back up here.

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 Post subject: Re: For Forkbeard - Garb Offenders
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 6:11 pm 
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wgoeken wrote:
I've gotta say no.
Former Army myself.
He's wearing his uniform incorrectly; those pants are part of his uniform. You can't just wear 'part' of your uniform at your leisure whenever you want.
It's not only a punishable offence, but it's extremely disrespectful, and should NOT be allowed.


The bad thing about rezzing an old thread? being wrong in your information. There is no rule against wearing pieces of a uniform as civilian attire. Its generally considered stupid, but there is no regulation or instruction against it. In fact, IF someone wanted to wear their entire uniform and the heralds allowed it, there is nothing wrong with that either.


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 Post subject: Re: For Forkbeard - Garb Offenders
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 7:42 pm 
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I thinks it's mainly insignia, badges, and tabs are the big things. i do find people that wear there stuff off duty kind a tacky and have noticed it's people straight out of basic that do this (people that wear there dog tags outside there shirts, wear tan t-shirts and wear around those army national guard backpacks)

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 Post subject: Re: For Forkbeard - Garb Offenders
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 8:26 am 
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evil randy wrote:
The bad thing about rezzing an old thread? being wrong in your information. There is no rule against wearing pieces of a uniform as civilian attire. Its generally considered stupid, but there is no regulation or instruction against it. In fact, IF someone wanted to wear their entire uniform and the heralds allowed it, there is nothing wrong with that either.


Unless policies have changed, it was a punishable offence to improperly wear your uniform; One kid got caught wearing his pants off-duty at a bar, and he ended up getting in deep **** with our XO (he ended up with loss of pay and extra duty).

I suppose it's possible that it may have just been a policy within our unit, but either way, it's disrespectful to your uniform, yourself, and everything it stands for to improperly wear your uniform, since you represent the entire US Military in doing so.

Argent wrote:
I thinks it's mainly insignia, badges, and tabs are the big things. i do find people that wear there stuff off duty kind a tacky and have noticed it's people straight out of basic that do this (people that wear there dog tags outside there shirts, wear tan t-shirts and wear around those army national guard backpacks)


Actually, those backpacks are just promotional crap that recruiters and the like give away; I use mine to haul crap around all the time. But to be honest, they're junk... the bottoms rip out and they just fall apart... although I can't say it's much worse than the gear our unit had :P


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 Post subject: Re: For Forkbeard - Garb Offenders
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 1:02 pm 
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ya they are ****, im guard btw lol.

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 Post subject: Re: For Forkbeard - Garb Offenders
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 8:59 am 
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Randy is a Senior Chief in the Navy. I'm guessing that his experience is valid.

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 Post subject: Re: For Forkbeard - Garb Offenders
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 4:51 pm 
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Reverend wrote:
Randy is a Senior Chief in the Navy. I'm guessing that his experience is valid.



Not a Senior Chief, but close. I'm a Chief or E-7, have deployed with national guard and army regular. but yeah, I've got a little experience on the policies in place.


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 Post subject: Re: For Forkbeard - Garb Offenders
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 9:20 am 
Hero
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What a necro!

You're a squid, Randy? Thanks for your service.

I'm surpirsed that you don't think wearing certain uniform items picemeal in civilian attire is a violation; the Navy usually has much stricter uniform regs than the Army. Have you ever worked green side?

I'm not sure what the Army Order is pertaining to their uniform regs, but I'd be inclined to believe that utilities are not authorized for such endeavors. In the Marine Corps, they certainly are not and we'd have had our souls ripped through our eyeballs for even contemplating it.

MCO P1020 Chapter 1, Paragraph 1005, Section 2. It is indeed a punishable offence under the UCMJ for disobeying a lawful order.

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Remy the Wroth wrote:
Just don't call it boffing/boffering. That's not what we do. We fight. With swords. To the sorta-death. I can't stand it when someone says boffering. Plus is means sexin' in the UK.



RIP Surt, Adunakhor of Barad'dun
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 Post subject: Re: For Forkbeard - Garb Offenders
PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 11:31 pm 
Grunt
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Holy ****! so I scoured our instructions and your right.. there is a little piece just like yours describing specific articles of clothing we are allowed to wear. CRAZY!

I also talked with my JAG, cause he hates me and its fun to make him squirm. We would be hard pressed to enforce that portion of the rule. But you are correct, it is a rule.


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 Post subject: Re: For Forkbeard - Garb Offenders
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 7:53 pm 
Grizzled Veteran
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Tiberius Claudius wrote:
In the Marine Corps, they certainly are not and we'd have had our souls ripped through our eyeballs for even contemplating it.


So much this.

The only **** you can wear is the dressier stuff and ever since OPSEC blew up, you can hardly wear anything other than dress blues. They look down on high and tights when you travel... but somehow expect you to be in reg when you arrive to check-in somewhere. (Somehow getting a haircut, fresh shave, and dressed on the car ride between the airport and admin)

Anyway...

Image

And this one... just... because...

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 Post subject: Re: For Forkbeard - Garb Offenders
PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 7:51 am 
Skull Crusher
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Teej wrote:

And this one... just... because...

Image


* is this making fun of dude? I am missing what makes it funny... and it saddens me.

Thrush
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 Post subject: Re: For Forkbeard - Garb Offenders
PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 12:58 pm 
Hero
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Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 10:50 pm
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Favorite Fighting Styles: S&B, spear, longsword
lol teej, Terminal Lance ftw!

Image

Thrush, it's making fun of how in Iraq/Afghanistan all the * are covered from top to bottom with * graffiti, "Wagner loves the *", and other homo-erotic stupidity. It's a weird way for Marines to vent by defacing government property, and it becomes excessive with people trying to mark a * anywhere they can just because. Back in 2004 at Camp Fallujah it had gotten so bad that they were tasking units to send Marines on "**** guard" whereby they stood outside any bathroom and checked for new graffiti before you were allowed to leave.

There was even one guy who stylized himself as "The Mad ****" and he went around writing pretty **** hilarious poetry bashing the chain of command and the suckiness of Iraq in general, and he signed every work with a drawing of some anonymous guy in an executioner's hood squatting over a toilet dropping the most explosive shotgun **** you've ever seen.

Bored young men who have to stay awake without anything to really help keep them awake resort to stupid ****.
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Remy the Wroth wrote:
Just don't call it boffing/boffering. That's not what we do. We fight. With swords. To the sorta-death. I can't stand it when someone says boffering. Plus is means sexin' in the UK.



RIP Surt, Adunakhor of Barad'dun
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