Belegarth

There has been a lot of buzz lately about modern hats. I was hoping to get some good quality hats that fit the mold. I have this wiki link which shows hats throughout the ages. Some of them are period, some are not. I'd like to get a database of pics and or tutorials on which hats are good, and which are not.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hat

Using the losse definition of "modern" we agreed on being before the year 1700 I compiled my list of period hats including:

Plieus- simple skull cap
the Phrygian cap
the Greek Petasos
The Korean Ayam
The Scottish Balmoral bonnet
The Catalan Barretina
The Catholic Biretta
The Capotain (Pilgrim Hat)
The South American Chullo
The Asian Rice Hat
The Fez
The Korean Gat
The scottish Bonnet or Flat cap
The Sottish Tam
The Tudor Bonnet
The keffiyeh
The Arabic Ghutrah
The Jewish Kippah
The Greek kausia
The Pakistani Pakul
The Norwegan Sami hat
The Philippino Salakot
The Tricorne (Back as far as the 1650s)
A Kazakh tubeteika
The Tuque
The Turban
The Tyrolean hat (back as far as the 1600s)
The Vueltiao and Cordobés style of Sombrero (dating back to before 1600. What sets these apart from the mariachi style ones is that they crown of the hat is flat, and the hats are usually made out of period meaterials, either straw or reed or felt)
The Cavalier Hat
The Italian Tall Hat
The Beret

Can anyone think of any others? Anybody object to the ones that are on here?

Sir Par wrote:Using the losse definition of "modern" we agreed on being before the year 1700 I compiled my list of period hats

Who's 'we' ?

He means himself and his alter ego's.

what about the berret, the tall hat and the cavalier?

It was discussed and LOOSELY agreed upon here: viewtopic.php?f=66&t=37831

Blackwolfe wrote:what about the berret, the tall hat and the cavalier?

All added

Can we get some pictures of the less common styles of hat as well, for those of us who are still in the process of garbing up, and want to select something from this list?

It'd help me a ton, so it would likely help some other new players out as well.

Yeah I posted that list while I was at work, There are pix of almost all of them in the wiki link I posted.

You don't want to get me started on the various types of Russian Hats pre-1700. It will hurt.

No, thats exactly what we want. We want a huge non-modern hat database

Turtle shell salakot... pretty badass IMO.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/e ... alakot.JPG

Sugarloaf: The typical pointy medieval hat, that later was hardened and gained a rim, similar to the ones sported by warhammer witchhunters (which seem to be a mix of the sugarloaf and slouch hats); however, the more accurate (late) sugarloaf features a smaller brim.

Then I'm going to start off by being a *.

The Ushanka isn't a period hat, it didn't come into use until the 20th c. There are many period types that are similar, but the kind of Ushanka you find common place nowadays is VERY modern.

Here's a quick and dirty list of hats/headgear for Kievan State Era Rus (9th - 13th c) before I get dinner:

Kolpak/Kalpak/klobuk
Shapka
Skull Cap
Tafya
Skufya
A Gorlat
Shlyapa
Treukh, Malakhaj, Gorlatnaya shapka, cherev'i (all variations on a Fur shapka)
Bril
Chola
Venets
Koruna
Povoinik
Volosnik
Urbus/Veil
Kika/Kokoshnika
Soroka
Kaptur
Stolbunet

NOTE: these names transcend hat designs for several centuries, so the particular style is based entirely on what era is belonged too.

Hats were so important to the Kievan Rus and Russian peoples that their crown was a fur hat.

Ushanka deleted. Can you post pics/descriptions when you have time of some of these hats?

I'd like to note real quick that a period hat worn with a UA top and hakama does not look period and can, in fact, look incredibly modern. If it's appearance of modernity we're concerned with, that may be something to think about.

If that's all you've got on, you'll be asked to go get dressed at CW. UA is not garb, and must be covered by a tabard at minimum.

I never agreed to pre 1700. In fact, I disagree quite seriously.
FB

When would you prefer?

By the by, your samurai armor and garb are ~1500-1600, depending on some details I can't see from your avatar pic.

Hence why I said loosely Fork. I never said thats exactly when we agreed upon, or even that there was an agreement. We talked about the year swinging widely based on culture, but the advent of the gun as the main weapon of combat being the cutoff. So I used 1700 as my cut off, and factored in Gun Warfare when I posted my list.

Par, this is awesome. Thank you.

Big King Jimmy wrote:Par, this is awesome. Thank you.

You're welcome Jimmy. I eventually want to do a huge list with pictures included, but Chaos is in the way right now

I don't see the hoods that we made.

As a guy who burns rather easily, I really appreciate this list. It also settles a debate between me and Lach as to whether or not the Tricorne is garb. I won.

Liam_McClung wrote:As a guy who burns rather easily, I really appreciate this list. It also settles a debate between me and Lach as to whether or not the Tricorne is garb. I won.

Well, you win now due to new Presidential definitions. The Tricorne is NOT a medieval hat.

Blackwolfe wrote:

Liam_McClung wrote:As a guy who burns rather easily, I really appreciate this list. It also settles a debate between me and Lach as to whether or not the Tricorne is garb. I won.

Well, you win now due to new Presidential definitions. The Tricorne is NOT a medieval hat.

Well don't tell Lachlan that last bit. I'll never hear the bloody end of it.

The tricorn is not a medieval hat, *.

edit: Bah. This is why you shouldn't drink and post.

Giggles wrote:The tricorn is not a medieval hat, *.

...and for the record, neither are Cavalier hats.

Giggles wrote:The tricorn is not a medieval hat, *.

edit: Bah. This is why you shouldn't drink and post.

Tricorne's are from before 1650 (which I beleive is Amtgard's stated cutoff) but strickly, no, its not a MEDIEVAL hat. However, as stated before, we have let Pirates slide and the Tricorne is most certainly a central piece of Pirate garb. The Cav hat sits more in the Musketeer era, which starts in the early 1620's

Soo Ma Tai wrote:If that's all you've got on, you'll be asked to go get dressed at CW. UA is not garb, and must be covered by a tabard at minimum.

All ya gotta do is cover up the symbols and that's totes legit.

Todo wrote:

Soo Ma Tai wrote:If that's all you've got on, you'll be asked to go get dressed at CW. UA is not garb, and must be covered by a tabard at minimum.

All ya gotta do is cover up the symbols and that's totes legit.

Says the man who won "Worst Garb" at Chaos this year.

Galya wrote:

Todo wrote:

Soo Ma Tai wrote:If that's all you've got on, you'll be asked to go get dressed at CW. UA is not garb, and must be covered by a tabard at minimum.

All ya gotta do is cover up the symbols and that's totes legit.

Says the man who won "Worst Garb" at Chaos this year.

Take it from the best!

Galya wrote:

Todo wrote:

Soo Ma Tai wrote:If that's all you've got on, you'll be asked to go get dressed at CW. UA is not garb, and must be covered by a tabard at minimum.

All ya gotta do is cover up the symbols and that's totes legit.

Says the man who won "Worst Garb" at Chaos this year.

You mean EVERY year since Wolfenstein won it.

Nah, I've only won once. Been nominated the past four or five years, though. It's tradition now.

So I couldnt sleep so I got my list of hats and took Sir Par's list of hats and created this the Ultimate list of Hats, with photos. I hope this helps.

• Hoods,
  
  Pattern: http://moirandalls.com/graphics/hoodbig.jpg
  Pattern: http://www.virtue.to/articles/images/Ho ... c_2004.jpg
• Coifs,
  
• Muffin hat
  
  
• Sock hat,
  
• Acorn hat,
  
• Chaperone Hat,
  
• Italianate Hat
  
• Wool Brimmed Cap
  
• Basic straw hat ( most with wide brims to block the sun),
  
  
• Barbette
  
• Brocade Henin
  
• Women's Linen Turban
  
• Nottingham Hat
  
• Medieval Burlet
  
• classic robin hood hat
  
• Cavalier Hat (leather or not)
  
• French Hood
  
• Snood (would be worn with French Hood to cover all hair)
  
  
• the bonnet
  
• classic pirate tricorn
  
• Roundlets
  
• Jesters Hat
  
• the turban,
  
  
• flat cap
  
• Cowl
  
• Pointed felt hat
  
• 1490/1510 Hat
  
• 16th cent. Hat
  
• Flower Hat 16th cent
  
• Gathered Cap
  
• Country Cap
  
• Voyageur's Cap or The Tuque
  
• Arabian headdress
  
• Ninja Head Wrap
  
• Samurai Headdress
  
• Highland Bonnet
  
• Plieus- simple skull cap
  
• the Phrygian cap
  
  Pattern: http://www.housebarra.com/EP/ep06/ep06_103.gif
• the Greek Petasos
  
• The Korean Ayam
  
• The Scottish Balmoral bonnet
  
• The Catalan Barretina
  
• The Catholic Biretta
  
  
• The Capotain (Pilgrim Hat)
  
• The South American Chullo
  
• The Asian Rice Hat
  
• The Fez
  
• The Korean Gat
  
• The Sottish Tam
  
• The Tudor Bonnet
  
• The keffiyeh
  
• The Arabic Ghutrah
  
• The Jewish Kippah
  
  
• The Greek kausia
  
• The Pakistani Pakul
  
• The Norwegan Sami hat
  
• The Philippino Salakot
  
• The Tricorne (Back as far as the 1650s)
  
  
• A Kazakh tubeteika
  
• The Tyrolean hat (back as far as the 1600s)
  
  
• The Vueltiao and Cordobés style of Sombrero (dating back to before 1600. What sets these apart from the mariachi style ones is that they crown of the hat is flat, and the hats are usually made out of period meaterials, either straw or reed or felt)
  Vueltiao:
  Cordobés:
• The Italian Tall Hat
  
  
• The Beret
  

Out of all the hats I looked up to find images I find the South American Chullo the most interesting of them all

Excellent work! Good on you for putting this together.

My only word of caution would be that modern versions of traditional hats produced as "folk-wear" type pieces in other countries often share as much similarity (and as many differences) as modern "historical" headwear in America does.

Just 'cause it's foreign and they call it a word that was also used for a historical hat (probably because it means "hat" in that particular language) doesn't mean it's garb.

Arrakis wrote:Excellent work! Good on you for putting this together.

My only word of caution would be that modern versions of traditional hats produced as "folk-wear" type pieces in other countries often share as much similarity (and as many differences) as modern "historical" headwear in America does.

Just 'cause it's foreign and they call it a word that was also used for a historical hat (probably because it means "hat" in that particular language) doesn't mean it's garb.

I understand what your saying Arrakis, but all I did was take my list of hats I know count as garb in the SCA, and Sir Par's list of hats and find images of them. It is now up to the players to pick a hat that best goes with their character and garb they already have, so the modern hats can go "bye bye". I think if they can prove it was historical worn, in the period we have loosely outlined, it should be good to go.

A) So gonna try the lady's linen turban.

B) Fezes are cool. (and an octfest tiny can of worms has been opened mauahahaha)

C) I would argue that your depiction of the kippa (the Jewish skull cap for those who don't speak Hebrew) isn't accurate since I don't believe it became popular to wear the tiny ones until, like, post industrial age-ish. It's a conversation we've had a couple times during Shabbat when there's nothing better to do, but the geeeeeenerally we feel that it was far more popular to wear something that covered the entire head (since you have to secure the small kippot with bobby pins). So you'd probably be looking at something more like this:

i madethe arabic headress its great for winter

I am Curious, what if one wants to make a custom hat? Kinda like a fantasy hat. like a Wizard hat for an example. or one inspired by a fantasy mideival theme
I cant find any Examples, but I might draw one. but lets say it's neither Modern nor "Period" or maybe a blend of both? Just something to say.

Not period meaning not documentable but close to a period hat and NOT a modern hat?

Sure, that's fantasy, I suppose.

Not period, by which we mean, an obviously modern hat design with some kind of attempt to make it "fantastical"?

Nope.


Hope that helps!

alright cool. I'll Try to make a few drawing examples of what I'm talking about to make it clearer to those who read my question though

Pages 188-215 cover descriptions and patterns for a lot of types of hat and head gear. (This is a pdf copy of the entire Medieval Tailor's Assistant, which seems to be a fantastic book.)

http://www.toya.net.pl/~kuswir/MTA.pdf

Yes, I recommend purchasing it; it's an excellent reference.

Yeah, I think I saw you recommend it to someone else, searched for it, and found the pdf. I'm starting to like the pdf enough that I'll probably purchase it when I get a chance.