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 Post subject: native american garb
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:39 pm 
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Location: Springfield Oregon
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Favorite Fighting Styles: polearms, MAces and shield.
would native american garb be frowned upon in this sport


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 Post subject: Re: native american garb
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:40 pm 
Monkey
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We have a guy in our realm named Turkey Feathers who fights in native garb, and looks sic while doing so. I, personally, see no problem with it, though some might argue it's not "medieval"

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 Post subject: Re: native american garb
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 4:13 pm 
Monkey
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This is one of my realmmates, Silo, sporting his Native-American inspired garb He's the one in the one in the buckskin pants, in case it wasn't obvious. He even got permission from one of the Fox tribe chiefs, who supported him doing so very eagerly, if I recall correctly.

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 Post subject: Re: native american garb
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 5:33 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: native american garb
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 9:12 pm 
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that is awsome i may really have to do that


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 Post subject: Re: native american garb
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:19 am 
Monkey
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Does that breastplate count as armor, or is it just for looks?

It looks supah fly BTW.

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 Post subject: Re: native american garb
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:12 am 
Underling
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First of all, you probably should not monolithize an entire group of very distinct cultures. Algonquian peoples wore different things than Siouan peoples, or Hopi, or Iriquoian, et cetera. Wearing a smattering of different Native-looking garbs may make you look like an *. I realize that we amalgamate European cultures in this game, but it's an entirely different matter here, from a sociological perspective.

A lot of indigenous people are not cool with whiteys appropriating their garb or accoutrements. Opinions obviously differ from person to person, and if you decide to do it, be prepared to catch flak, even if you do it perfectly. I'd say a good course of action may be to do what Silo did, and seek the advice of a local leader, then aim to dress in that local fashion. Dollars to doughnuts, most leaders would be okay with you wearing traditional clothes, but may frown on you painting up, even if authentic (in many tribal American cultures, this is sacred, and copying for the purposes of playing a game may be uncouth).

As for the legality, I'd say that the spirit of the rules is that pre-gunpowder cultures are pretty much okay (it really bugs me when people just wear something non-Western and call it garb-- Rroma, Chinese, Native American, etc.) In this instance, I would say that means pre-contact, or just at the time of contact. Keep in mind that that may be exceedingly hard to do, as there aren't exactly many records available to you for these time periods. We don't know much about Native American ways of life before guns and horses. In fact, many tribal groups have lost their clothing culture from pre 1800s; the cultural genocide was just that effective.

As for the bone breastplate, it looks plastic. It may be real bone. Either way, it would not count as armor (though you may be able to make a lookalike out of armor grade leather, provided it covered enough of your target zone.

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 Post subject: Re: native american garb
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 2:09 am 
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Whatever is laying around.
If made of authentic and heavy duty materials, a breastplate like that could potentially be considered armor. However it's outside the scope of the current rulebook, and would be at the marshal's discretion. I would say build it well and assume it will be garb, and maybe you'll luck out and some marshal's will allow it to count as armor.

Regarding culture, Native American/First Nations garb should be legit. As Cu pointed out, the spirit of the rules is before gunpowder weapons became prevalent in a given culture, while the more stringent cutoff is around year 1700. (Though that bothers me as being very Eurocentric. Cook, for example, didn't visit Hawaii until 1778 as an example.)

Cu covered most of the tricky details which are involved (appropriation from a still active culture). However he also pointed out that, as a sport, we already butcher cultural clothing to use for our sport. So YMMV. *shrug* My take would probably be to say: do a lot of research and be respectful.

Here is a website that I found a bit ago, and have been reading through as I have time. I'm not sure how good a source it is, but information on the internet can be hard to come by, so maybe it will be helpful. (Just be sure to take it with a grain of salt until you can double check the site.) http://www.nativetech.org/clothing/index.html

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 Post subject: Re: native american garb
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 2:36 pm 
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Some of the earliest homo sapiens bones are found here in America. So while it might not be well documented of what they did in the dark/middle ages.. they were here for a looooooooong time.

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 Post subject: Re: native american garb
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 3:38 pm 
Monkey
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TF uses the Breastplate for purely decorative purposes, so just garb. though he wants to put leather backing behind it so it would be armor legal. He also uses plastic beads on it so they are significantly less breakable.

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 Post subject: Re: native american garb
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 5:06 pm 
Slayer
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I realize that we amalgamate European cultures in this game, but it's an entirely different matter here, from a sociological perspective.


While this is true, you also have to realize that your garb may become an amalgamation of Bel styles over time as you acquire borrowed/hand me down garb, add things that don't fit from your friends, or for the weather, from your unit/realm, tourneys, etc.

You'll notice that TF has a long tabbard looking front piece on the bottom, looks like a long belt flag, and while I have no idea if the native culture he references had anything like that, I know that in general it reads as a purely Belegarth belt flag/accessory.

So! While you should definitely keep in mind cultural sensitivity and "period-ness," remember that it is also a game and part of Bel culture at large, so have fun! and follow the general garb rule that everyone touts (with good reason) around here:

If you're gonna do it, do it RIGHT. All or nothing. Go big or go home. (Your get the picture.)

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 Post subject: Re: native american garb
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 6:18 pm 
Monkey
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Yeah there's definite Bel culture in his garb. Belt flags are a popular DGMA accessory, and I know we nicked the concept form womewhere else

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 Post subject: Re: native american garb
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 9:42 pm 
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Location: Missoula MT
Started Fighting: 01 Jun 2009
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lol


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 Post subject: Re: native american garb
PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2012 11:04 pm 
Toadie
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Just my opinion even though it doesnt really matter lol. i think if you wear some form of native american garb, do the research like stated above so it looks legit and not a generic feather in the hair and some leater pants. I'd also say go all out with it and fight like the culture. Hand axe, dagger, bow, javelin, whatever they used if you can pull it off and be effective then noone should care what you wear. Just dont wear blue jeans and you should be good lol


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 Post subject: Re: native american garb
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 1:55 am 
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Joined: Sun Dec 02, 2012 4:44 pm
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Location: La Grande, OR
Started Fighting: 01 Oct 2007
Realm: Wrythyk
Favorite Fighting Styles: Quarterstaff, florentine, speedbat
I am assuming that what applies to Native garb applies to Asian garb. Ming dynasty garb should be fine, right?

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 Post subject: Re: native american garb
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 10:53 am 
Slayer
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totally.

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