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 Post subject: Cleats
PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2015 5:26 pm 
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Realm: Morva
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Favorite Fighting Styles: Working the Pole
What do people think about cleats? Too modern? Too cheesy? Tell me.

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 Post subject: Re: Cleats
PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2015 6:24 pm 
Hero
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I'm not a fan. I don't want to get kicked or stepped on by cleats. I also don't want my shield getting kicked by cleats either.

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 Post subject: Re: Cleats
PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2015 10:58 pm 
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Location: Irvine, CA
Started Fighting: 31 Aug 2001
Realm: Marshal of Anduril
Unit: Wardens
Favorite Fighting Styles: Sword & Board, Extreme Taunting
We don't let people wear them on most California fields due to safety - potential to damage equipment or step on people.

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 Post subject: Re: Cleats
PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2015 10:13 am 
Boo Radley
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Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2009 11:36 pm
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Started Fighting: 03 Jan 2009
Realm: Grond
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Favorite Fighting Styles: Boot and Bottle
Getting cleated is no worse than getting hit with a red, and in six years of fighting, I can count the number of times I have been stepped on with one hand.

I can understand the argument from the perspective of shield damage.

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 Post subject: Re: Cleats
PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2015 12:14 am 
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Started Fighting: 31 Aug 2001
Realm: Marshal of Anduril
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Favorite Fighting Styles: Sword & Board, Extreme Taunting
Yesh...metal cleats definitely look like they can break the skin. Are we all talking about the same thing (metal cleats) or like the little plastic/rubber type cleats? Maybe it matters which type we are talking about because some are very severe looking.

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 Post subject: Re: Cleats
PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2015 10:42 pm 
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Yeah, there's a pretty big difference between golf/baseball cleats (which are typically metal spikes) and soccer/football cleats (which are plastic wedges/pegs).

I would definitely agree that metal spike cleats are inappropriate for Belegarth, because they're potentially dangerous and because they could easily damage equipment. But I would argue that plastic cleats aren't much more dangerous or damaging than particularly aggressive tread patterns on some boots, and should be allowed (assuming the actual shoe part is covered up to look period appropriate).


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 Post subject: Re: Cleats
PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2015 9:53 am 
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Just looking at the pictures you posted, there is a significant difference between the surface area of the cleats versus the boots. That's what matters, how much surface are a theoretical kick would be spread over (along with other factors, including how sharp the cleats are, but I think surface area is more important). Cleats have a much, much smaller surface area, which means higher potential to damage shields when kicked, weapons when stepped on, and people when stepped on or kicked.

My own realm has never allowed cleats and I would encourage Belegarth to do the same. Wearing cleats is the ultimate expression of "I don't care about your safety or your equipment, I just care about my own field effectiveness."


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 Post subject: Re: Cleats
PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2015 11:43 pm 
Boo Radley
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Favorite Fighting Styles: Boot and Bottle
Anyone that has played a contact sport (football, rugby, ostensibly soccer) and been cleated will agree, it sucks. It doesn't suck any more than getting hit with a stout red.

I'll restate the point that I had on Facebook, which is that I have never heard anyone raise a concern over cleats except in the hypothetical. There is currently no legislation regarding them, and I think that most people automatically assume that metal cleats would be overkill. In fact, full metal spike-cleats are prohibited in most sports. The closest you can get are for cleats with thread-in posts that have a flat metal cap.

Cleats won't shred your foot/arm if you get stepped on, the kicker would have to dig and rake their foot across a shield to do any lasting damage, and the additional safety they provide by being able to gain traction can be used to counter argue the point all day.

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 Post subject: Re: Cleats
PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2015 12:47 am 
Brute
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My coworker has a nice ring of bruises from where he fell down at rugby and a 400# Poly stepped back on him, several of which broke the skin(looking like scrapes). We definitely have people that size, and it happens in line & bridge fighting more than you are admitting.

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 Post subject: Re: Cleats
PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2015 10:50 am 
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I have some things to add.

First, there is a huge variety in cleats. You have your metal baseball cleats. Golf cleats are often more spike-like and sometimes literally have metal spikes. Noone's mentioned them, but you have track shoes, which the most aggressive ones can have up to 1" metal spikes. Then you have a variety of hard plastic spikes, some of which can also be upwards of an inch long. Then you have rubber cleats. These can be very aggressive and harder rubber to 1/4" nubs that are softer rubber more akin to something like hiking boots. Then you also have hiking boots and military boots which can both have some pretty aggressive tread on them. There is a huge variety so just saying "no cleats" covers a large variety of shoes.

Another thing people have mentioned is safety. And, IMO, wearing shoes with good traction IS a safety issue. While getting cleated isn't a lot of fun, neither is getting stepped on period. The main things at risk would be toes and fingers. And if you choose to fight barefooted or bare handed then you are choosing to put yourself at risk. As others have said, getting your hand stepped on isn't really any worse than taking a heavy red shot or even a hard spear to the gut or ribs.

I wear cleats and since I do I simply don't shield kick. I do agree there is chance of damage to the shield (though our shields should be able to take some punishment) and if you miss and kick the person you don't really want to kick them with cleats. I also pay close attention to my feet and what is around then.

A lot of this to me comes down to common sense and the risk you are willing to take. Common sense to me is don't kick with cleats and be careful where your feet are at. Like someone who swings a big red it is your responsibility to use that weapon/equipment properly. The risk is if you are afraid of being stepped on then you should protect yourself. How I interpret the rules is that people need to be responsible for how much risk they want to take and what protective gear they feel is needed. Helmets, gloves, shoes, knee/shin guards, etc all fall under that.


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 Post subject: Re: Cleats
PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2015 10:03 am 
Underling
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Location: Missoula, MT
Started Fighting: 0- 3-2006
Realm: Stygia
Unit: Western Uruk-Hai
Favorite Fighting Styles: Twin Swords, S&B, Spear
I personally dont really mind too much getting stepped on, **** Happens. But I believe if we were to allow cleats it should only be the rubbery nub ones.
As for Shield Kicking, I dont think it should be allowed if you are wearing cleats, for damaging equipment. Not everyone makes the gear out of the best material and you'd have a high probability of popping holes into the shield face.

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