Belegarth
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Belegarth Realm Map
http://board.belegarth.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=41286
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Author:  Sir Thurat [ Fri May 24, 2013 12:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Belegarth Realm Map

So, I've been doing a lot of work this week compiling a simple database of realms and realm information so that the realm map and the Geddon can be brought up to date, and I'm getting to where I'll be ready to start updating the actual map. My dilemma is a question of determining what does and does not belong on it.

Put simply:
  • Should we remove inactive realms from the map?
  • Should we put up Bel friendly Dagorhir realms?

Personally, I feel that inactive realms should be left on the map, and given a different colored marking. This way, new people looking to get into Bel in a specific area can see that there were interested persons there before, even if there isn't a group now, and that will give them a place to start. As well, I think that only Belegarth realms belong on this map. If this were going on a site such as the Florida Foam Fighters Association's webpage, it would be appropriate to link to every other foam fighting group, but it's not. It's going on the Belegarth website, so it seems in our best interest then to advertise Belegarth realms there.

I'd like to know how people feel about this before I proceed.

-Thurat-

Author:  Sir Anastasia [ Fri May 24, 2013 1:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Belegarth Realm Map

Ugh, tough questions. I like your solution to the inactive realms.

But, I can say that having only the Bel realms on the map makes it difficult for me when I tell my Dag brothers and sisters that I support them equally. This may not be true for all regions, but in California and (I suspect Florida?), the line between the two sports is non-existent. There are people here who have been Bel fighters since the beginning and they start both Dag and Bel realms. Also, it makes areas like San Fran look barren, when there are groups there that fight, that support BftR (one of our larger more nationally attended events), that go to events regionally, and also attend Chaos Wars. In this case, not referring to the most established group in that area hurts my Bel realm, other Bel realms, and multiple Bel events because new fighters are mis-directed to defunct groups or groups with less organization. If you mention the dag realms in California on this map, I personally will see those recruited fighters at California events because that is the model we have here. If you don't list these groups, the attendance at local, regional, and nationally attended events suffers a potential decline. A policy of exclusion will do harm; I do not see any benefit of this policy for my region.

Potential Options

1) Just list the realms that want to be listed, regardless of sport.

2) For each state/region link the sites that have all groups first (e.g. California Foam Fighters is the first listed contact for California). List that groups exist in a city but direct them to the page with the other info (e.g. Cali Foam Fighters). That way people are referred correctly via geographical location, but non-Bel details are left off our page.

3) Other

TLDR: A rising tide lifts all boats in this case.
Promote friendly groups to have their continued attendance at events and practices. We have adopted this policy and have seen 378% growth at our major event in 5 years. Others will also have data on the success of this model. If you have data on a different model, now is the time to come forward with numbers to show your case.

Author:  Argent [ Mon May 27, 2013 8:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Belegarth Realm Map

The Des Moines, Iowa realm is now known as "Barter Town", not "Solasmahr Tir""

Author:  Sir Thurat [ Wed May 29, 2013 2:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Belegarth Realm Map

Not to derail this discussion, which I do sincerely hope more people will comment in, but do you know the founding date for Barter Town? It's just an old realm taking a new name, I take it, so the founding date for the old one would be most accurate, I think.

Author:  Derian [ Wed May 29, 2013 7:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Belegarth Realm Map

Here's my take:

I don't think it's a good idea to display non-Belegarth groups on this particular map. The reason being that this is the official map that we display on the website. People who are looking for Belegarth realms specifically will be looking at this map.

I have no problems with maintaining an alternate map that is listed prominently in the forums that contains a list of all foam fighting groups, but we should only be displaying actual Belegarth groups on our site. I could see it being easily misconstrued that we were claiming these groups were part of Belegarth if we did otherwise, which is something that we should avoid.

As for inactive realms, if there is strong evidence that they are indeed inactive, then I wouldn't be opposed to noting that in some way. Unless they've been entirely inactive for a significant period of time (like 5 years or so), I think we should keep them on the map.

Finally, everyone give Thurat a huge round of applause for taking this on. It's a huge pain to keep this updated, and he graciously volunteered.

Author:  Matthias - Dun Abhon [ Wed May 29, 2013 8:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Belegarth Realm Map

I have to agree with Derian on this one, though Anastasia makes good points. I think it would be pretty easy to confuse the realms/groups with those of other organizations, at least for newcomers, and that's something I think would be best avoided, specifically for the reason Derian mentioned: we don't want people to think we're the umbrella group with Dag/Amt/whatever groups acting as part of our organization.

That said, I definitely think it'd be a great idea to have a map with all the Bel-friendly groups on it we can manage, since that would be an excellent resource for everyone and one I personally would love to see. I realize it'd be a huge undertaking and don't expect anything close to immediate results, but an all-inclusive map might be a first step toward something like a North American (or perhaps worldwide) cross-group organization, much like people have mentioned exist in their various states (Florida comes to mind, though I believe there are others out there). That's probably my wishful thinking, though, and totally beyond the scope of this project.

Author:  Argent [ Wed May 29, 2013 9:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Belegarth Realm Map

I wasnt there for the founding but I wanna say 2005. Im just going off of when the page on the wiki was first created.

Author:  Sir Anastasia [ Thu May 30, 2013 12:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Belegarth Realm Map

So I might be confused about where this map is exactly located. Is it a link off of belegarth.com or is it through geddon.org?

Author:  Derian [ Thu May 30, 2013 6:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Belegarth Realm Map

This is the map in question.

Author:  Sir Thurat [ Thu May 30, 2013 12:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Belegarth Realm Map

Thanks for the feedback guys. I didn't even think about the mixed signals we could be sending by "claiming" realms not from our group, on our map.

That said, Google has come out with a new Maps Engine Lite. It's still beta, so it has a few things that need tweaked, but what it allows us to do is add layers to a map. Right now I'm working on this.

Features that Maps Engine Lite has, that I intend to utilize:

  • Layers that may be displayed together, separately, or in varying combinations
  • Multiple color selections for pins
  • Multiple shape selections for pins

Things that I have suggested to Google, using their feedback tool, to make their new engine that much better:
  • Allow sorting of data by pin shape and color, by country, by state, and by name
  • Add line breaks to the description section, to better organize input there.

This map will be a great addition for the foam fighting community as a whole, but what do you guys think about having it on the website? We will have the "Belegarth" layer selected, but users could also browse to other layers while still on our map. Do you think this could still generate the confusion that was mentioned before?

Thanks again for the feedback and support!

-Thurat-

Author:  Sir Anastasia [ Thu May 30, 2013 3:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Belegarth Realm Map

Thanks Derian! I withdraw my comments regarding promotion issues. The Geddon information is sufficient (currently many groups are listed) and I thought that was what we were talking about. I did not want that to change, but I don't see the need to link anyone on the Belegarth.com website, provided geddon remains as is.

Author:  Sir Thurat [ Thu May 30, 2013 4:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Belegarth Realm Map

Oh, yeah, I have no intention of messing with the Geddon set-up! The amount of pain that would be delivered down upon me would biblical x.x

Author:  Santiago [ Sat Jun 22, 2013 8:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Belegarth Realm Map

Thurat, I like the ideas you posted about having a layered map, or to be able to sort by specific data points. Thank you for taking this on, and I look forward to seeing my little realm point all by it's lonesome in NW Arkansas!

Author:  Sir Thurat [ Sun Jun 23, 2013 9:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Belegarth Realm Map

I won't have the layered map done for some time due to limitations in the Maps Lite program, but I intend to finish updating Derian's map this week, so the website will have an updated map with you guys on it.

Author:  Sir Thurat [ Mon Jun 24, 2013 4:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Belegarth Realm Map

UPDATE: Just want to keep you guys updated on where I am on this. I still have a lot of realms that haven't responded, but I'm going to plow ahead with plotting realms on the map. The Maps Lite Engine is still not really functional for how I want to use it, so I've begun work on Derian's map. I only plotted 7 or 8 realms today, and I have work tonight and am otherwise occupied this week, but I intend to get the rest of the map brought up to date by the end of next week. Again, if you haven't already, please take a look at the Realm List that I have going, and see if you don't see if there's anything you can help me fill in.

Thanks for the support!

Thurat

Author:  Galya [ Tue Aug 27, 2013 11:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Belegarth Realm Map

Sorry I'm late to the party. Just looked over the list you have. First, it's Obsidian Hollow, not Hills. Second, I'm pretty sure that website you have listed is not the same group. I have no idea who they are. And I'll see if I can get back to you on an email, I don't know if the one you have is valid or not.

EDIT: Dacio just provided his email. "daminator2u@gmail.com"

Author:  Sir Thurat [ Wed Aug 28, 2013 12:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Belegarth Realm Map

Thanks for the update, Galya. The website linked is the website for the group that previously occupied the Lake in the Hills area. I was under the impression that it was ran by the same people, just under a different name, and I haven't contacted them to inquire as to whether they want the website associated with them or not.

-Thurat-

Author:  Galya [ Wed Aug 28, 2013 9:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Belegarth Realm Map

It's fine. They're my neighbors, I thought I would ask them just to make sure.

Author:  Rasheab [ Thu Aug 29, 2013 11:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Belegarth Realm Map

Hey, just got back up to date on the thread. Would you like corrections sent in a PM, or posted here, or...?

Author:  Sir Thurat [ Fri Aug 30, 2013 8:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Belegarth Realm Map

PM would work best, Rasheab. Thanks!

Author:  Midge Kai'Ironhand [ Fri Aug 30, 2013 3:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Belegarth Realm Map

thurat, you're amazing for doing this <3 i'm so glad to see things getting updated. i have friends from all over that ask me frequently about bel, but without knowing what realms are still active i sort of sit there and go "derrrrr."

also, sent you a pm :)

Author:  Sir Thurat [ Sun Sep 08, 2013 7:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Belegarth Realm Map

Update: I admit that my progress on the map is slow. I'm sorry to have given a deadline that I couldn't reasonably meet. I would like to say that I have finished up through the K's on my Realm List, so if your realm name is before that alphabetically and you see issues on the map, please message me or reply here to have a correction made. If you are after that, please be patient with me. I don't want to set a deadline by which I will be finished with the data that I currently have, but I am working on it off and on when I have the drive and the time to do so.

Thank you for your continued patience and assistance,


-Thurat-

Author:  Sir Thurat [ Sat Nov 02, 2013 8:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Belegarth Realm Map

All of the data that I have is now on the realm map. There is still a lot of missing information, but every current Bel realm should be on the map now.

EDIT: It is worth noting that there are now two pages of data points. I don't know if it's a glitch, but it seems that it won't show data on the second page if I am on the first page, but sometimes it will (?). It's probably a personal setting, because it looks fine when I'm logged out. Either way, there are a handful of realms that I know no longer exist, so once I have made sure that they are indeed dead, I'll remove them from the map, and have it back down to 1 page again.

So, if you encounter any problems with the map, or if you have suggestions/questions/comments/edits, please post here.

Author:  Sir Anastasia [ Sun Nov 03, 2013 3:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Belegarth Realm Map

So the map has a lot of issues regarding California, especially with regard to groups that are inactive. I don't know if it would help, but this map does have current info for Bel groups (but you have to sort through Amt/Dag as well) - each is specified. This will have contact info and generally the groups here are the closest to being active because I have seen them at events or on the FB pages.

https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=21 ... c5fe&msa=0

Also, thank you so much for this. I really feel that keeping this updated goes a long way to helping our sport grow. It is truly a service to the community.

Author:  Sir Thurat [ Sun Nov 03, 2013 3:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Belegarth Realm Map

Thanks for the link, Ana; I'll check it out, and augment my information with what they've got there.

Author:  Gámhain [ Mon Nov 04, 2013 9:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Belegarth Realm Map

I say yes, include the Bel-friendly Dag realms on the map. Make it as easy as possible for people to get into foam fighting no matter where they are.

The more people we have joining or creating a new group - be it Dagorgarth or Belehir, the more potential cross-gamers we have.

Take the high road.

Author:  Hallec [ Wed Nov 13, 2013 12:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Belegarth Realm Map

To the best of my knowledge Pelagir and
Ranekgarde are no longer active.

Author:  Sir Thurat [ Wed Nov 13, 2013 9:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Belegarth Realm Map

Thanks for the info, Hallec. Do you, by any chance, know whom to contact regarding either of those realms? Not that I do not trust your information, but that I prefer to confirm inactivity with realm members/leaders, when possible, before changing a realm's status on the map.

Thanks!

-Thurat-

Author:  Hallec [ Wed Nov 13, 2013 12:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Belegarth Realm Map

Thurat wrote:
Thanks for the info, Hallec. Do you, by any chance, know whom to contact regarding either of those realms? Not that I do not trust your information, but that I prefer to confirm inactivity with realm members/leaders, when possible, before changing a realm's status on the map.


I do not have any contact information for either group and the links to their FB and webpages are dead. They aren't on the Western Boffer Realms map which is being kept well up to date and I've been told by a Saracor member living in SF that Pelargir is no longer active. Sorry that I can't offer anything more conclusive.

Author:  Sir Anastasia [ Wed Nov 13, 2013 12:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Belegarth Realm Map

I don't think we have the contact info for them because I haven't heard from them since 2007. The map has anyone who has been active in any capacity online or has visited any inter-realm event for the last few years. Pelagir was having trouble years ago. They may have fighters there, but no practices that we know of.

Author:  Sir Thurat [ Tue Dec 03, 2013 1:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Belegarth Realm Map

Just to post an update: I'm still working on the realm map. My big thing right now is finding the time to confirm all of the information that I have. I have added 2 new realms to the map this week (woot, new realms!), and am hunting down some information on a couple of realms in IA that I hear are still alive, but not on the map.

Thanks for your continued support and patience!

-Thurat-

Author:  Derian [ Tue Dec 03, 2013 3:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Belegarth Realm Map

Which realms in IA? I may not have the most up to date info, but I can probably at least put you in touch with the right people.

Author:  Sir Thurat [ Wed Dec 04, 2013 2:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Belegarth Realm Map

Specifically, I was told there were realms in Iowa City and in Cedar Rapids, neither of which are on the map, and I don't have info on them. I've made contact with some folks out of Cedar Rapids, but I have yet to contact anyone in Iowa City.

Author:  Derian [ Wed Dec 04, 2013 3:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Belegarth Realm Map

Ah. I do not believe that there is an active realm there at this time.

Author:  Salamander [ Mon Dec 09, 2013 12:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Belegarth Realm Map

Nan Belegorn is still alive in Cedar Falls, with practice on Tuesdays at the Uni Dome and sporadic practices on Thursdays. Might be a good idea to change the website to https://www.facebook.com/groups/116248031764764/. I haven't used the NB forums at all, haven't heard them talked about. I think everyone is simply much more active on FB.
Don't know nothing bout anything else.

Author:  Sir Thurat [ Mon Dec 09, 2013 7:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Belegarth Realm Map

Thanks for the update. I had your FB page in my data set, so I don't know why I didn't have it on the map. Thanks for pointing it out!

Author:  Hallec [ Wed Apr 16, 2014 3:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Belegarth Realm Map

Raen Dun'Aear is defunct/inactive.

Author:  Sir Thurat [ Wed Apr 16, 2014 4:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Belegarth Realm Map

How long has the group been inactive? Is it more of a hiatus, or are they disbanded?

Author:  Hallec [ Wed Apr 16, 2014 4:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Belegarth Realm Map

Kord on the Raen Dun'Aear FB wrote:
Raen Dun'Aear has sadly closed down. It has moved to dominican university in San Rafael. It know goes by the name of Armored Penguins. I am the realm leader, and was Raen Dun'Aears before it fell apart. Please PM me if you have any questions at all. The more people swinging foam in Northern California the better!

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