Red Rocks

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Red Rocks

Postby Koom Di' Puts » Fri Sep 09, 2005 5:23 am

I know a few realms have them as local rules... I think it would add a flair of interestingness if they became a national thing. I mean the really big rock at Arm (I'm not gonna say who brought it out) was a ton of fun and semi-effective. So just think of the same rock but having the ability to crack shields...
(On a side note I know the Hardcore Forum Will try to destroy any evidence of this thread ever existing)
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Postby savetuba » Sat Sep 10, 2005 11:56 am

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red rocks anyone?

Red rocks are fun but to unweildly to use unless you have a lot of fodder infront of you.
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Postby Aidoann Fvctvlike » Sun Sep 11, 2005 6:36 pm

red rock polo, anyone?
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Postby Koom Di' Puts » Tue Sep 13, 2005 11:02 pm

Unwieldly yes, but effective. Specially if you can get behind a sheild wall... We've used em, play tested... even let a really large one be used as a regular rock (Just in head) And even that was effective.
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RE: Heh

Postby Calarn the Black » Tue Sep 13, 2005 11:03 pm

We have a "red rock", and rules for it. Basically, it's the only thing you're allowed to be holding at the time you throw it. It's incredibly ineffective, but fun.
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Re: RE: Heh

Postby Koom Di' Puts » Fri Sep 16, 2005 5:06 am

Calarn the Black wrote:We have a "red rock", and rules for it. Basically, it's the only thing you're allowed to be holding at the time you throw it. It's incredibly ineffective, but fun.


And this is why I would like to see a push to get them thrown into the national rules.
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Postby Syrus » Fri Sep 16, 2005 9:02 pm

What are the rules for a "Red Rock?"
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Postby Mercer » Fri Sep 16, 2005 9:32 pm

I'm sure someone will correct me if I forget a few...

1-Nothing but the Red Rock in your hands; no shield, no sword, nothing.
2-No more than 5 steps can be taken after the Red Rock is picked up; after that, pitch it or drop it.
3-Red Rock counts as a red hit in all respects (pierces armor, damages shields, etc.). Still head-legal; if it hits the head, it counts as a rock (kinda a no-brainer, but some people would say "Heads don't take red hits, so it's immune! Duhr!").
4-No rolling the Red Rock along; no kicking it toward the enemy.

I think that's it; Koom will probably chime in with whatever I forgot.
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Postby Syrus » Sat Sep 17, 2005 11:04 am

What about construction? Minimum dimensions? Maximum weight?
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Postby Mercer » Sat Sep 17, 2005 4:26 pm

Nothing so precise; it's basicly a mass of open-cell foam in a cover. No min/max on weight, officially; just make it big and boulder-ish...
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Postby Forkbeard » Sat Sep 17, 2005 6:27 pm

Why are you turds hatin on the Hardcore? Just beasue we want everyone to have to TRY doesn't mean we all hate eveything new.
I've always been in favor of red rocks.
They should be atleast a twofoot sphere and should kill you een if your wearing a helmet.
They would be great for catapults.
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Postby Beorn Tordensjold » Sat Sep 17, 2005 7:31 pm

What Fork said. I think that it would be fun, add something new to the game.
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Postby Mercer » Sat Sep 17, 2005 11:22 pm

Anyone who thinks a red rock is power-gaming (like ultra-lights or sail-shields) obviously has never played with one. In fact, I'd say you have to be pretty brave or skilled (or both) to fight effectively with one; sure, you do a red hit if they block it with a shield, but they're likely still coming, and unless you can get a weapon or shield really quickly, you're probably dead or at least gimped.
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Postby Syrus » Sun Sep 18, 2005 10:55 am

I asked about construction rules because if we would make this a rule, we would need guidelines.

Min. diameter of 2-2.5 feet sounds good. I do think weight would need to be addrssed, as well.
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Postby Spike » Sun Sep 18, 2005 7:18 pm

If you're thinking say... couch cushion size, you should be required to have a minimum of 2 people using it.
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Postby Syrus » Sun Sep 18, 2005 8:34 pm

Realism: maybe. But I like the Atlas imagery that this would give. Besides, noone gripes about the people my size (160 lbs.) wielding Warhammers.

Playability: Hosing a "balanced" weapon doesn't seem right.

Safety: I think a weight maximum would be best here, to prevent a 20 lb. object from flying through the air at my head.
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Postby Koom Di' Puts » Tue Nov 29, 2005 7:45 pm

To kinda bump this idea back up, I have a good sized red rock... I'll go home and mesure it to get some accurate specs... But I do think that 2foot is a good minumum. And Weight is a must that should be addressed. I guess I could weight it also just to throw some guidlines out there. Once I get all the specs I'll probally throw some nit-picky questions with it. Until then....
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Postby Forkbeard » Wed Nov 30, 2005 7:11 pm

Not that a regular dodge ball could EVER be used, but, how much do they weigh?
They seem to be about a heavey as a head safe thing should be. I've been blasted by a dodgeball and while it did ring my bell, I don't ever remeber any neck pain.
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Postby Koom Di' Puts » Wed Nov 30, 2005 7:44 pm

Dodge balls would be just a bit too small for what we are looking for, and most of the smaller ones that fit in regular rock standards. Also Rock rules say they need to be made of foam... Dodge-balls scare even me...But the weight isn't too bad. Only thing I would look into is that a dodge ball bounces, foam doesn't.
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Postby Syrus » Fri Dec 02, 2005 10:18 pm

Koom Di' Puts wrote:Only thing I would look into is that a dodge ball bounces, foam doesn't.


Yeah... I can see recoil being a *.
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Postby savetuba » Fri Dec 02, 2005 11:16 pm

Koom Di' Puts wrote:Only thing I would look into is that a dodge ball bounces, foam doesn't.


5 Head shots with 1 throw! :devil: And after it bounces to the ground someone could easily kick it hard into the guy 5 feet in front of them. Ouch fest :armor1:

and a little off topic, I want to rock fight you koom :P best rock fighter in belegarth my rocks :P
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Postby Koom Di' Puts » Tue Dec 06, 2005 6:48 am

The bounceing isn't the problem. That is actually better. Think about getting in the head with something 1 lb that bounces off, and then think about something 1 lb hitting you in the head that doesn't bounce. Thats why weight of abouncy ball couldn't be mesured for foam.

And that is Self proclaimed Best rock fighter in Belegarth.
Get it right.
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Postby Syrus » Tue Dec 06, 2005 11:27 am

A bouncy ball will cause the head to recoil away from the hit (potential neck injury) which kills it on safety.

A bouncy ballwould make the dodgeball tactic of blasting your opponent from 10' away, and catching your throw possible, which kills it on playability.

Rocks don't freaking bounce like that, which kills it on realism.


I think we should stick to foam, if possible.
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Postby Koom Di' Puts » Sun May 28, 2006 8:08 pm

This thread has been dead way too long. I'd like to see some more info put on it before someone brings it to WC. I wanna hear the good and the bad, we have seen a bunch I wanna hear more. So far what I had in mind to count as a boulder, (I am gonna stop using the term 'RED' Becasue a red shot doesn't count of you hit in the head... lets call it muave.) would be roughly the size of a bean bag. The maximum... we found out through playtesting that if you can throw it your good... we had one unthrowable one.
I also want to know about what people think about being able to block with one. I remember in another thread somewhere far off someone mentioned being able to block with a rock. That would be a lil on edge in realism but not at all for a Muave Rock. (heh I got to use Muave!)
But what about Arrows? This is the kinda stuff I wanna hear about.
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Postby Koom Di' Puts » Sun May 28, 2006 8:15 pm

(Gah Stupid Web error made me re-write this!)

This thread has been dead for way too long Lets get it started back up.
We have seen alot of people for the Boulder (No longer going to be called 'red' Due to red shots not counting when they hit you in the head...)
I want to hear some stuff against it, playability has been resolved. Realism... I am sure some stronger people could throw one. Saftey... They have been used locally for some time.
It was brought up a while back that regular class 5 'White" rocks could block a non-arrow shot. What about Muave Rocks? (Boulders((I got to use Muave!!!))
Could one be used to effectivley block an arrow... and then we have to worry about the unbreakable shield... yaddayaddayadda... Lets see some Ideas on this... Ammo is great for things before they are brought up to the WC.
I am also looking at a minimum size roughly that of a bean bag. (re-covered of course with no-zipper)
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Postby Syrus » Tue Jun 20, 2006 12:27 am

OK, 2-3' is a good target number for dimensions to start, but can someone please WEIGH their red rocks so we can discuss safety issues and weight maximums?

We've got a cap om what javs would weigh, so we know that it'd be an issue when we go to get this added.
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Postby Faolan » Tue Jun 20, 2006 2:35 pm

There should definatley be a weight minmium. Say 2 lbs?
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Postby Angmarth » Tue Jun 20, 2006 3:11 pm

If there were no reusable missiles I would consider it. Unless that were in place, the red-rock is a bit overpowered in my opinion.
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Postby Forkbeard » Tue Jun 20, 2006 3:46 pm

I like the fact that you can only take 5 steps with it.
I also amintain that they should be RED. THey should kill people in helmets. And they should do one red hit worth of damage to sheilds. And they should kill people on armor if they hit the body.
I think these thing are very powerfull, but well balnced by the fact that you can only take 5 steps with the weapon.

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Postby Faolan » Wed Jun 21, 2006 5:53 am

I agree with Forkbeard, these weapons should be more than rocks. A rock of that size could crush in a person's chest or limbs.

I think that a person should only be able to carry one of these rocks at a time to lessen the impact on the game.


Plus people would have to look out for missile weapons
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Postby Angmarth » Wed Jun 21, 2006 8:16 am

The beauty of Bel/Dag/SCA is that you are "only as good" as you are. Once you start adding things that can under no "normal" circumstances be accomplished you are changing the nature of the game.

It is possible for me (Mike Hockaday) to don armor and fight with a sword. It is possible for me (Mike Hockaday) to pick up a bow and shoot people. It is NOT possible for me (Mike Hockaday) to pick up a 50lb rock and throw it at someone let alone a 150-200lb rock. If you want me to be more accepting of red rocks, then design a catapult that fires bean bag chairs.

When I ran the "Strongest Man in Dagorhir" at Rag XVI in 2001 the rock throw was WON by Kublan of the Kutriguri with a throw of 30 ft. The rock itself weighed just at 30lbs. (The rock was roughly the size of a NFL sized football.)
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Postby Forkbeard » Wed Jun 21, 2006 4:19 pm

I miss all the fun ****. I bet I could throw that rock further.
I think if this was to happen at all, you would not only not be able to have more than one rock, but you couldn't be holding any weapond either.
Actually, I came up with this idea years ago to only be used in conjuntion with a catapult. I suck at caepentry, though, so it hasn't happend yet.
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Postby Koom Di' Puts » Sat Jun 24, 2006 6:00 pm

one thing I have a problem with is the whole realism aspect... Your right... "You" couldn't throw a large rock.... But what about the "hero's" we are trying to play? (excluding Keg... he is just old).
And these boulders are far from 'overpowered' anyone that has playtested them can tell you that. Any Half decent archer out there is just drooling on this idea... they are more a target than a glaive user.
and remember.... This is still a game... not a sport...have some fun
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Postby Forkbeard » Sun Jun 25, 2006 8:52 am

I'm all for this idea, but thoose are some lame arguments.
ANd the sport vs. game gambit is really used up.
I'f you want to get people to cnsider this your going to have to be a little more constructive.
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Postby Thorondor » Sun Jun 25, 2006 11:41 am

**5steps until you must use it or drop it**
So, I walk 5steps, drop it. Pick it back up. Repeat.

Sure, I might not go anywhere too quickly, but I would be able to get it over to that group of gimps so i could just toss it on them.

Also, if it's large enough to hit 2-3 people, does it hit them all? I'd love to come in from the side and kill 2 people defending back to back.

I hate to do this Angmarth, but it's true. Is it possible for me (Stash Zabriski) to don armor and a sword to fight? Maybe; for all of 5 minutes before I am totally useless. At least with the foam stuff I can go closer to half an hour before I hit that point. IF we can find a balance for the mauve rocks, then they might be a good addition to our fantasy/reality medieval combat society.

As an archer, I drool over people without a shield :)

My thoughts on rules:
*2.5ft minimum diameter on all axis
*must be totally constructed with open cell foam
*must have a cloth cover
*must be irregularly shaped (gotta make it LOOK like a boulder at least)
*minimum/maximum weight - I have NO idea since I've never tested them before.
*Can not block arrows
*Can not have any additional weapons or a shield on you
*Can not be wearing any armor
*To move with the rock, you must go down on your knees (will show the slowed speed of moving with 150-200lbs on you, will also slow your reaction speed of getting out of the way of incoming enemies). You are allowed to stand up to throw the rock.
*Rock ignores armor and causes 1 red hit to shields.
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Postby slippy » Mon Jun 26, 2006 1:15 pm

what i thought of is just imagin there being a catapult throwing the rock not a person and a catapult would move slower than a person so i think it might work.
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Postby Syrus » Fri Jun 30, 2006 4:48 pm

I question the irregular shape, it seems arbitrary and unneccessary.

The "walking on knees" idea: I like what you're going for, but that's already used in-game for leg damage. It'd wind up being confusing at times.

Not wearing armor is actually a benefit to Red Rock users. They go out, and they have a reusable missile that half(?) the field can't touch.

I'm not sure I get why you can't carry additional arms or a shield, though.

Just my two cents on a set of otherwise good ideas.
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Postby Koom Di' Puts » Sun Jul 02, 2006 1:13 am

So walk 5 steps- drop- repeat: yeah... thats how it has been in playtestin... you move slower than you would think.

Can't carry other weapons or shields in hand: kinda a saftey/realism type thing (Ack! I said Realism!) can't hold a really big rock in your and... and your sword too.... Oh... and we dun want you acidentally throwin your sword with it...

My scale is broken... as soon as my poor self gets a new one I'll measure all mine... (ack did I say "all" ... can't give away all my O'Fest secrets) and get em up here...
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Postby Kenneth » Sun Jul 02, 2006 3:44 am

I have a serious problem with "red" missile weapons.

I can just imagine the biggest exploit, which is a whole army fielding multiple red rocks per person. In other words, just a shieldwall of heavily armored tanks, with a mountain of rocks and tons people behind them who have the sole job of chucking as many red rocks as possible at people. Sure, an archer may be able to plink some off, but how much damage can a ranged red weapon do? Quite a bit. I saw that large rock hit enough people in the head that I can easily see slaughtering people without needing the requirement of a head shot. Scale that up to five or six people chucking rocks, and you have a group that can decimate just about everybody pretty quickly. At the very least, it destroys any semblance of army cohesion.

Archers? Not a problem. Just build a literal fort out of red rocks. I see no basis in the game for arrows to be able to go through a "rock wall". Thus, a fortress made out of red rocks would be completely immune to arrows, but would have no problems chucking red damage over walls and into shields/arms/bodies/heads. Especially consider this, the red rocks I've seen deform quite a bit. Thus, if you land anywhere near the top half of their torso, the rock will deform over the shield and hit the torso(shoulders). That's auto kill right there.


Last Equinox, we had a field littered with rocks. Trash bags full. Imagine if somebody scaled that up to red rocks, which make FAR FAR more sense to use. After all, I don't even have to really aim a red rock. Even if I only hit a shield, I've made good use of it. If most of the shields on the field have been broken, what do we have? One glorified game of dodge ball with really big balls.

Don't believe it can happen? Take a look at Dag. Entire armies are stapling bags of rocks onto the back of their shields. Another example of a good idea scaled up that can cheese the entire game were healers. Anybody remember the story of every single Numenorean having the healing poem taped to the back of their shields? Voila, instant army of healers.

Honestly, I would just load up my castle towers with red rocks. That'd demolish any invading force. You don't even have to really look where you're throwing them, just chuck them over the tower and you're bound to hit 5 people, likely all kills (Head and shoulders!)

Actually, now that I mention it, that's not a bad idea...I should bring up a few trash bags of rocks to a tower turret, and just blindly start chucking them over the edge. Not quite as overpowered as a rock having red capabilities, but a shotgun approach would probably also work.

No thank you to (hand thrown) red rocks.

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Postby Syrus » Tue Jul 04, 2006 3:44 pm

Kenneth wrote:I I can just imagine the biggest exploit, which is a whole army fielding multiple red rocks per person.

I see no basis in the game for arrows to be able to go through a "rock wall".

Especially consider this, the red rocks I've seen deform quite a bit. Thus, if you land anywhere near the top half of their torso, the rock will deform over the shield and hit the torso(shoulders). That's auto kill right there.

just chuck them over the tower and you're bound to hit 5 people, likely all kills (Head and shoulders!)


I like that you're looking for possible abuses so that we can quash them now. My thoughts in order of how they're listed above (I tried to takfelt most defined the spirit of what you were trying to say):

I have a hard time seeing anyone wielding multiple red rocks, unless they're hanging out by a boulder pile. I think the effectiveness of this would be lessened by your hampered mobility due to the limited movement rules and two-hand use rule.

Rocks are weapons. Weapons cannot stop arrows. An archer hiding behind a red rock wall would effectively be out in the open.

Your point of deformation is a valid point. Can anyone think of a way to check red rocks for "flex?"

A weapon can only hit one target at a time says the BOW. Hitting five people at once (or even multiple target areas on a person) can't be done. The Red Rock would not be exempt in any way.
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Postby Kegg » Tue Jul 04, 2006 5:59 pm

To be honest I would be much more inclined to outlaw all rocks than seeing something like a red rock on the field. Red rocks are silly and open to abuse.

Normal rocks are silly and also open to abuse also. A custom rock with good aerodymanics would quickly make helmets mandatory in the sport. Picture a manufactured rock about the size of a baseball/tennis ball. Injected molded with a weight about that of a tennis ball, with a skin coat that makes it look like an actual rock. Now picture everyone in Numenor with dozens of these in bags behind their shields and helmets on their heads (so they are themselves not vunerable to them). You could overhand throw them 100+ feet. Now picture dozens of these flying at you as you approach the line. As you get closer to the line, Numenoreans in the second rank will be toss whole sacks of rocks into the air at the same time (not aimed). As they rained down they would savage your line. What would the defense be besides a helmet. It would fundamentally change the way the game was played.

As long as rocks are something silly and ineffective, who cares what rules you use. Someday someone will begin abusing this feature of the sport, and new rules will have to be added to stop the sport from turning into a juggling match.

I am pretty sure Numenor would vote to outlaw all rocks.
I am almost positive that Numenor will never vote for red rocks.

For those that like Red Rocks, run special scenarios with scenario specific red rock rules. I would not expect to see them in the BoW anytime soon (this has been discussed and dismissed for decades).
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Postby Kenneth » Tue Jul 04, 2006 7:26 pm

Syrus wrote:
I have a hard time seeing anyone wielding multiple red rocks, unless they're hanging out by a boulder pile. I think the effectiveness of this would be lessened by your hampered mobility due to the limited movement rules and two-hand use rule.

Rocks are weapons. Weapons cannot stop arrows. An archer hiding behind a red rock wall would effectively be out in the open.

Your point of deformation is a valid point. Can anyone think of a way to check red rocks for "flex?"

A weapon can only hit one target at a time says the BOW. Hitting five people at once (or even multiple target areas on a person) can't be done. The Red Rock would not be exempt in any way.


As I posted earlier, that is exactly the scenario. I have a boulder pile. It isn't just me with the boulder pile though, it is me and a few of my friends.

Rocks are weapons, true. Weapons may not stop arrows, but what about weapons sitting on the ground that are untouched? If I were to shoot an arrow at you, and you were to shoot an arrow at me and they collided, would you claim your arrow would have gone through my arrow and somehow hit me?

An arrow may continue its motion through weapons, but are you really going to claim that the arrow would have gone straight through the wall and hit somebody in the head? How can archer call that, when instead the person could have easily dodged, or moved, or done any number of things in between the space of the wall and the body. Can the archer even SEE past the wall to call his shot? It isn't like the weapons are a foot from the body..the wall can be anywhere in between the archer and the target. In essence, they are the equivalent of haybales on the ground, or a castle wall.

A weapon may only hit one person at a time, but if five people get hit by the same rock, what do you think is going to happen? One person will say, "I'll take that hit, you four keep going?" Or will all people will take the hit as a matter of logic and form, and not rules lawyer?

In the end, the result is much as Kegg and I have explained. It isn't one or two that will ruin a field, it is when entire armies field them. I've experienced entire armies(not just a few people) fielding rocks, and it is absolutely stupid. It truly is a glorified game of dodgeball. A ranged red version is just asking for abuse.

I'm thinking a rock shower might not be a bad idea...I'm not fond of regular rocks either.
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Postby savetuba » Tue Jul 04, 2006 8:31 pm

Kegg wrote:Now picture dozens of these flying at you as you approach the line. As you get closer to the line, Numenoreans in the second rank will be toss whole sacks of rocks into the air at the same time (not aimed). As they rained down they would savage your line. What would the defense be besides a helmet. It would fundamentally change the way the game was played.


Someone fears change. :P

If you are worried about baseball sized rocks why not increase the minimum size? And you can block a regular rock with anything you want.
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Postby Kenneth » Tue Jul 04, 2006 8:41 pm

savetuba wrote:Someone fears change. :P

If you are worried about baseball sized rocks why not increase the minimum size? And you can block a regular rock with anything you want.


Kegg's post said he was inclined to remove regular rocks. Does that sound like fearing change?

How does one block sacks of rocks being dumped on you? Raise your shield above your head? Oops, speared. It certainly is game changing. As I stated before, there were people bringing trash bags worth of rocks out onto the field.
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Postby debuenzo » Wed Jul 05, 2006 7:49 am

i do think that red rocks might be cheesed, (heavy armored shield wall waits w/ rock chuckers behind, throwing)
but that would easily be stopped by a "max. # of red rocks on the field" rule say.....5 or so
i was also thinking that maybe a red rock could be "crushed" by 3 or 4 red swings

now i definately do not think regular rocks are a detriment to the sport nor should ever be completely outlawed
for one it allows for more weapon variety and characterization
if a "hobbit" wants to fight w/ a bag of rocks and a dagger, let him

also, i dont think a rock is any more dangerous than a javelin
javelin can be used both in melee combat as well as a missle weapon
javelin can score a hit on more targets than a rock
javelin are larger and can be used to block strikes more effectively (when wielded as an upright shield)
the advantages a rock has over a javelin are that the rock's min. throwing distance is much smaller and that they are less cumbersome

allow red rocks: only if they are monitored and controlled by rules that would prevent a serious (and negative) change of the game
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Postby Kegg » Wed Jul 05, 2006 8:59 am

Yeah right, I fear change. There are about a dozen rules that I would immediately change to make the game more playable. A short list would include...

1.) No reusable missiles.
2.) No difference between stabbing and slashing damage.
3.) One hit red coreless shields.
4.) Only checking no bashing (safety)


debuenzo wrote:i do think that red rocks might be cheesed, (heavy armored shield wall waits w/ rock chuckers behind, throwing)
but that would easily be stopped by a "max. # of red rocks on the field" rule say.....5 or so


Sounds like a scenario specific thing to me. Legal weapons can be brought on the field by anyone. Who decides who gets to use the red rocks. What about in unit battles with dozens of teams? There is no other weapon that needs to be "limited" for them to be balanced.


i was also thinking that maybe a red rock could be "crushed" by 3 or 4 red swings


Do you mean while it is on the ground? I believe it would be impossible to get 4 solid hits on a "red" rock in someones hands without some serious finger breakage.


now i definately do not think regular rocks are a detriment to the sport nor should ever be completely outlawed
for one it allows for more weapon variety and characterization
if a "hobbit" wants to fight w/ a bag of rocks and a dagger, let him


I said exactly the same thing in my post. Currently rocks are not a detriment to the game because they are not being abused. A single hobbit with a dagger, who gives a rats *. He is completely ineffective in the grand scheme of the battle. Now picture 100 heavily armoured guys with 25+ turbo-rocks each. 2500 missile weapons, which would completely change the nature of the battle.



also, i dont think a rock is any more dangerous than a javelin
javelin can be used both in melee combat as well as a missle weapon


Javelins are rarely used as melee weapons. In Numenor we do not allow reusable missiles, so javelins get used exactly once per battle. We have a few, but they don't overbalance the game. Nationally, all battles end up as missile juggling (archers and javelins going back and forth. In Numenor ALL battles end in melee.

javelin can score a hit on more targets than a rock


You have to aim a javelin and it is difficult to carry more than two or three.

javelin are larger and can be used to block strikes more effectively (when wielded as an upright shield)


You staple a bag to your shield. Your bag of rocks on the back of a shield makes a much better blocking device than your single javelin.

the advantages a rock has over a javelin are that the rock's min. throwing distance is much smaller and that they are less cumbersome


How far can you throw a tennis ball? I believe most people can throw a tennis ball much further and more accurately than a javelin. Rocks don't have to fly poorly. Numenor/Edhellen has experimented with rocks that can be thrown 100+ feet accurately. Why don't we make and sell them, because they would seriously unbalance rocks and break the game. The crap most people use for rocks is laughable. If I were trying to maximize my lethality, 20 turbo-rocks would be the way to go.


allow red rocks: only if they are monitored and controlled by rules that would prevent a serious (and negative) change of the game


The concept of rocks themselves is broken. It just hasn't been abused yet. Red rocks would be abused due to their huge combat advantage.
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Postby debuenzo » Wed Jul 05, 2006 9:38 am

Kegg wrote:
i was also thinking that maybe a red rock could be "crushed" by 3 or 4 red swings


Do you mean while it is on the ground? I believe it would be impossible to get 4 solid hits on a "red" rock in someones hands without some serious finger breakage.


yes, while on the ground



Now picture 100 heavily armoured guys with 25+ turbo-rocks each. 2500 missile weapons, which would completely change the nature of the battle.


i don't think this will ever happen. Why hasnt it happened already?
A nerf mini-basketball or football w/ the ends snipped off covered w/ a sock would make a fine rock that you could throw far and accurately, but few have it....probably because people have more fun swinging a sword than tossing a rock
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Postby Winfang » Wed Jul 05, 2006 10:03 am

debuenzo wrote:
Kegg wrote:Now picture 100 heavily armoured guys with 25+ turbo-rocks each. 2500 missile weapons, which would completely change the nature of the battle.


i don't think this will ever happen. Why hasnt it happened already?
A nerf mini-basketball or football w/ the ends snipped off covered w/ a sock would make a fine rock that you could throw far and accurately, but few have it....probably because people have more fun swinging a sword than tossing a rock

Watch a Dagorhir battle sometime. The concept that Kegg speaks of is an actual tactic used by many there.
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Postby Chicken » Wed Jul 05, 2006 10:04 am

I'm 100% with Kegg on this. I have no problem with rocks as they were back when hardly anyone used the things, but it seems like it won't be long before they're all over the place, to cheesy effect. If Koom wants to run around with rocks stuffed in places I don't want to know about, that's fine. It's his schtick, he's good with them but it's not cheesy, it's fun and it doesn't detract from anything. When everybody and their brother has a bag of the things stapled to the back of their shield, it's a different matter.

debuenzo wrote:
Now picture 100 heavily armoured guys with 25+ turbo-rocks each. 2500 missile weapons, which would completely change the nature of the battle.


i don't think this will ever happen. Why hasnt it happened already?
A nerf mini-basketball or football w/ the ends snipped off covered w/ a sock would make a fine rock that you could throw far and accurately, but few have it....probably because people have more fun swinging a sword than tossing a rock


It hasn't happened yet because for years no one tried making good rocks. There was a cultural assumption that rocks were cheesy, stupid, and ineffective. There still is, to a large extent, which is why they aren't being as widely used as they could be. Still, over the last year+ I've noticed successively more (good) rocks at pretty much

But seriously, why wouldn't it happen? Yes, lots of people have more fun swinging a sword than tossing a rock, but lots of people have more fun winning than swinging a sword, I'm sad to say. Plus, look at Kenneth's post above - it's already happened, it's getting worse.

Red rocks, like regular rocks, make great toys and fun things to have a couple of to spice things up a bit from time to time, but they loose their charm in quantity.
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Postby debuenzo » Wed Jul 05, 2006 11:26 am

Winfang wrote:
debuenzo wrote:
Kegg wrote:Now picture 100 heavily armoured guys with 25+ turbo-rocks each. 2500 missile weapons, which would completely change the nature of the battle.


i don't think this will ever happen. Why hasnt it happened already?
A nerf mini-basketball or football w/ the ends snipped off covered w/ a sock would make a fine rock that you could throw far and accurately, but few have it....probably because people have more fun swinging a sword than tossing a rock

Watch a Dagorhir battle sometime. The concept that Kegg speaks of is an actual tactic used by many there.


i went to a Dagorhir event this year, and while there were notably more rocks than belegarth, i dont think the number was excessive nor "cheesy."

i found myself dying from arrows and javelins much, much more.

Either way, i hope the above tactic never does occur
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