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 Post subject: Double Ball Flail
PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 7:26 pm 
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Location: Washington State
The "Double Ball Flail" was originally an agricultural instrument used for threshing grain. However, when impromptu use showed how effective it was, it was quickly adopted as a weapon of war. Soon the standard flail was replaced with flails designed specifically for warfare. The spiked flail was quite popular, but soon someone got the idea of using two smaller spiked balls with two chains, to increase its effectiveness.

Morning Star: The morning star is a medieval weapon that consists of a spiked ball on the end of a chain attached to a pole. It is a derivative of the mace.
A combatant would swing the ball on the pole around his head and attempt to strike his opponent with it, often with deadly force.
Sometimes, instead of one large spiked ball, the pole was attached with 3 spiked metal balls connected in chains. This modification is called "flail".

This is all I have found so far. I will get back to you with more accurate sources and the dates of use.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 9:42 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2003 11:34 am
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Location: Numenor
Started Fighting: 0- 0-1988
There really isn't a question in this and so I am moving it to Rules Discussion.
I think I see your question.... why is the weapon I want to build not allowed?

The current rules we fight with have been arrived at over a considerable period of time, with much playtesting, and much arguing and debate. They fall in many categories.

An activity was causing injury on repeated basis (the outlawing of shield bashes from the rear).

An activity caused a particularly bad accident once (the general outlawing of fun-noodle in the construction of arrows), and the likelyhood it would be repeated again.

Randomness - 2" secure pommel minimum. No one that I know of has been hurt by too small or loose pommel. Yet we continously check and enforce this more strictly than almost any other rule since it is one of the easiest to check.

Play balance. Some particular method of fighting was too effective (much more than it historical should be). An example of this is thrown daggers. It is like watching jugglers. The rules on flails fall in this category. Due to the sports lack of head shots and very large shield sizes, flails are ahistorically powerful. So on repeated occasions, efforts have been made to reign them in a bit. Rules (and many and separate occasions) that have been added to address the unbalancing nature of flails include

1.) Maximum chain length (6")
2.) Minimum ball diameter (15")
3.) Maximum number of heads (1) - Reason.. hard to marshal multihead flails.
4.) Maximum overall length (40")
5.) Always are Class I weapons.
6.) Flails may only have one hinge.

As I addressed above, the reason for these changes are play balance. Remember that it takes 2/3 vote of the War Council to change a rule. This is actually a very high bar to cross. Very few new rules pass. It may seem like we are changing them all the time, but most of the time it is tinkering at the edges.

To again allow multi-headed flails (which once were legal, but specifically banned by the War Council for playability reason), would be exceedingly difficult. True, the rule was passed when the War Council was maybe only 10 realms strong and so maybe every realm that has joined since would feel (and vote differently) now, it would still require changing the votes of some of the founding realms to make the change. If memory serves me correctly, realms that once fought with (and against) multiple head (or hinge) flails, voted unanimously to outlaw them. They were that bad.

I would be happy to discuss with anyone the reason (sometimes a really stupid one) for any rules that Belegarth employs. I have at least a half a dozen that I sure would like to change (these are rules that Numenor has playtested on our on field for over a decade), but know that there is not yet a consensus to make the change nationally.

Hope that answered your question.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 6:22 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2003 5:46 pm
Posts: 5606
Location: Kung Foo Island
Started Fighting: 15 Jun 2000
Realm: Aquilonia
Unit: Western Uruk Hai
Favorite Fighting Styles: Just the Tip
If multi head flails were still leagle, I'd be arguing against them. Thank god they're not, we have enough to bicker about.
I would like to comend the new guy on asking questions and doing research. Both are good for everyone. Keep it up.
FB

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 10:43 pm 
Hulkamaniac
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Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2003 11:43 pm
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Location: not the same as always
Started Fighting: 1- 0- 0
Realm: avalon
Unit: BoF
Favorite Fighting Styles: single blue and cold soda
though if we had double head flails they would be the heavy/slow weapon some want it to be

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Forkbeard wrote:
When new people demand that I explain the wierd parts of our rules and they do not like my answers, I just tell them that the majority of the smart people in this sport said so, that's why. Shut up and fight.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 3:29 pm 
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no, people would still build them minimum weight, or just over.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 5:37 pm 
Hulkamaniac
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Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2003 11:43 pm
Posts: 1221
Location: not the same as always
Started Fighting: 1- 0- 0
Realm: avalon
Unit: BoF
Favorite Fighting Styles: single blue and cold soda
but then it wouldnt deliver a hit
by adding another ball you have to add x amout of mass to your design,to create another head. so the only way to keep the weapon min weight would be hollowing out the heads or if you have counter weight taking that off

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all around nice guy


Forkbeard wrote:
When new people demand that I explain the wierd parts of our rules and they do not like my answers, I just tell them that the majority of the smart people in this sport said so, that's why. Shut up and fight.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 7:51 pm 
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Counterweighting still adds weight, but in such a manner that it alters the center of balance on a weapon. It doesn't remove weight.

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