It is currently Tue Jul 23, 2019 6:30 am

Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 9 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Should a person in armor call "light"?
PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2006 7:30 am 
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2003 10:52 pm
Posts: 1528
Location: Arcadia, CA
Started Fighting: 0- 8-1991
Realm: Andor
Unit: Clan of the Hydra
Favorite Fighting Styles: sword and board
This was a discussion that came up at Melcaorme. Our rules system defines a hit as:

3.2.1. Weapons which strike with sufficient force can score a hit and/or Injury to the Target Area.

It doesn't distinguish between what is required for an armored person versus an unarmored one.

A person basically said that in his realm a person gives up the right to call "light" when wearing armor because the same hit that counts to someone unarmored should also count on someone who is wearing armor.

Where this becomes an issue is when a person's armor either does what it's supposed to do too well, i.e., absorb the impact of a hit, or the person doesn't take into consideration other ways of identifying a hit of sufficient force such as the sound of a blow. The person wearing the armor must be hit harder in order for them to accept a good hit and this can lead to further problems.

Your thoughts?

"...change requires action, it doesn't just happen. Define your actions by how you think the game should be, not how the game is. The game will follow."--Big Jimmy

 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2006 9:20 am 
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2005 8:03 pm
Posts: 1498
Location: Numenor
Started Fighting: 30 Aug 2003
Realm: Numenor
Unit: Black Company
Favorite Fighting Styles: sword and shield
once again, the sufficient force is to be determined by the Target (be he/she in armor or not)

if some people think that armor gives them the right to only take very "hard" hits, then that's their perrogative(sp?).....if it becomes a problem (they dont take hits, or cant feel them), someone can address a herald

also, because the term "sufficient force" is rather vague, im wondering how a new rule would read:
(new rules)
3.2.1. Weapons which strike with sufficient force can score a hit and/or Injury to the Unarmored Target Area.
3.2.2 Weapons which strike with slightly higher sufficient force can score a hit and/or Injury to the Armored Target Area

i say leave it to the person being hit to decide whether they want to take it

Brother of the Black Company

 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2006 10:34 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2003 3:28 pm
Posts: 846
I heard one of these discussions at some Springwars where the people decided there was nothing wrong with calling "glancing" on armor, but "light" was sketchier.

 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2006 12:43 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2004 4:52 pm
Posts: 1096
Location: Carbondale, IL
Started Fighting: 01 Apr 2001
Unit: Clan of the Hydra - Iron Crown
Favorite Fighting Styles: Spear &c.
I think the last thing we need to do is explicitly state that armor requires a more forceful strike. That sounds to me like a recipe for rhino-hiding and uncontrolled swings, while also making armor yet more powerful.

I like the distinction between light and glancing. Not to say that there's no such thing as a light, non-glancing hit against armor, but that's a lot more iffy of a call.

I think that the theory should remain that a hit is a hit is a hit - a hit is light if it's light and good if it's good, without regard to whether it hits armor or bare skin.. Since theory and reality are quite different, however (except in theory), and armor can easily affect your perception of a strike, it should be left that armoured people should be discouraged from and cautious about calling light but if it becomes a problem it's a problem for the heralds and that particular fighter, not the rules.

Squire to Sir Kyrian; Commander, Clan of the Hydra
"There is only one appropriate attack for all polearms, and that is the thrust."
Antonio Manciolino, Opera Nova, 1531

 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2006 11:59 am 
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2003 2:13 pm
Posts: 1470
Location: St. Louis, MO
Started Fighting: 01 Mar 1998
Realm: Arnor
Unit: Moredain
Favorite Fighting Styles: Crushing my opponent until they relent.
I believe the weapon minimums should address this. HOWEVER, my personal stance is this. I take a shot in armor that takes X force. I take a shot without armor than is considerably less than X. I am not saying that armor allows me the ability to ignore hits, I am saying quite the opposite. Individuals who are unarmored should take the lighter, less solid hits. I have never (to my knowledge) been considered a rhino-hiding cheater, so I think my hit calibration must be adequate.

Sir Angmarth, High King of Arnor
Knight of Numenor
aka Mike Hockaday

 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2006 11:14 am 
Grizzled Veteran
Grizzled Veteran
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2003 5:46 pm
Posts: 5611
Location: Kung Foo Island
Started Fighting: 15 Jun 2000
Realm: Aquilonia
Unit: Western Uruk Hai
Favorite Fighting Styles: Just the Tip
I have always made 2 calls.
Light. This includes grazes, glances and plain old limp wristed bumps.
Garb, when nothing on me exept clothing was hit.
I have been called dead by heralds from shots taken to the back in my new armor. This is becasue I didn't feel anything or hear anything. This has only been problem with light head flails and a couple arrows.
There is a balance here. I'm honest, I take my hits, but through the pursuit of legal armor, I have developed a few places on my person that are unable to feel the lighter range of what I consider "sufficient force". That's where heralds come in. Thanks y'all.
I've found that I take lighter hits to my armor most of the time. If I hear it I take it.
It's when I am taking shots to my bare skin that I am the bigest stickler for good hits. When I can feel them, I judge them alot more accuratly.

Warlord of the Western Uruk-Hai

Don't call it a comeback
I been here for years
Rockin my peers and puttin suckas in fear

 Post subject: Hmmm
PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2006 11:40 am 
Grizzled Veteran
Grizzled Veteran
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2003 7:35 pm
Posts: 2169
Location: Tir Asleen
Started Fighting: 0-10-2002
Realm: Tir Asleen
Unit: House Dregoth
Favorite Fighting Styles: Blue and Board
If I hear it, even if I don't feel it, I take it. If a peice of my lorica shoulders gets hit, but my arm/body doesn't, I still lose the armour. Armour confers one more hit, not the ability to shrug something off.

That said, I agree with Angmarth, in that some hit, when in armour, just don't cut it in terms of hardness of blow OR sound of impact. Those I call light on. It usually doesn't happen, as most people see my armour and just swing a bit harder.

Sir Calarn the Black
Knight Lt. of House Dregoth
Knight of Tir Asleen

 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2006 1:48 am 

Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2003 9:31 am
Posts: 146
Location: Ebonhold
I agree the wearer should should take their armor into consideration while assessing their blows, but to make a rule that armor wearers cannot call light is inviting problems. ie. a LOT of people using "tappy" "tappy" shots vs. armor and demanding that they are taken.

 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2006 10:08 am 

Joined: Sat May 10, 2003 10:08 am
Posts: 1502
Location: behind you
I support a "take light shots' policy.
Because the consiquences of getting hit are so small (You rejuvinate at the end of battles anyway) or (To completely eliminate any arguments associated with the sufficient force rules" ) I find a much more laid back approach to hit taking is overall better for the game. In the end we all get up and do it again anyway.

I would say anyone wearing armor needs to be shown proper hit taking etiqette. The less arguing or confusion the better. People need to understand that getting hit is ok.

I never really have a problem with people calling light from my hits so I'm not the best guy to ask.

I'm a fan of "Hit hard, take light."

Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 9 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 6 hours

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  

Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
GuildWarsAlliance Style by Daniel St. Jules of Modified by