Sheild damaging javelins

[Argyll]

just throwing this idea around, not even sure if I like it completely... but it could be cool.

The Romans were very good at killing barbarians. one reason was that they would hurl their javelins at the enemy in mass, and the javs were designed to get lodged and the shield and bend in such a way that they could not be removed the wooden barbarian shields, and the shield would become useless and would have to be discarded.

This gave me the idea that perhaps a javelin in our sport could be able to count as a red hit on foam cored shields only. It would serve to sway people from using as many 1/2 ounce foam core shields and bring some more balance/historical accuracy to the game.

Something like a jav to a foam shield counts as a red hit.

what do you think?

[Vokor]

It is a good idea but with a game like ours it is best to use the KISS thought Keep it super simple. also you could just add a thin 1/4 ince pice of wood to a punch and it would no longer be coreless. IMHO

[Magpie Saegar]

Shouldn't this be in "Rules Discussion and Development?"

I'm not sure what I think about this. I guess I would say maybe, IF it was a really solid hit to the shield (Straight on, full force, solid hit). But then... that could get really hard to measure/pay attention to.

All-in-all, I support the movement away from coreless shields, but I don't think this is a functional way to make that happen.

If you want to sway people, I would institute a relatively strict weight / flex requirement on shields.


[edit: yeah, there's also the question... what's considered cored/coreless? I make my shields out of sections from an old canoe that my dad cut up. I think he said that that's made out of vinyl. what about those saucer sled shields? those cores are much different than thick wood cores.]

[savetuba]

what's considered cored/coreless?

cored = requires your hand and arm to control it.

coreless = uses only your hand to control it.

[Kenneth]

I really liked this idea, up until I thought about it for a few minutes.

The concept is essentially a long ranged red against a typically large target. The strike can not really have any minimum force requirement.

I truly dislike the vast majority of coreless shields. I feel they imbalance the game, especially when combined with other equipment. However, given the growing prevalence of javelins, I suspect punch shields will be nearly wiped out by this type of rule. What you have is a reusable (Reusable missile weapons), riskless (long ranged) attack, that can also attack the head.

What I would far rather see is coreless punch shields taking only 1 red hit. That ups the relative strength of reds, which are relatively underrepresented in this game. Reds have the tremendous drawback of being archer bait, and relatively defenseless alone. It also lowers the relative strength of all-foam shields, which I suspect are a bit too powerful and are a bit overrepresented in this game.

Edit:
A cored shield does not mean it requires my hand and arm to control it, nor does a coreless shield mean I only use my hand. The distinction you're making is strap vs punch shield. There are coreless Amtgard strap shields, and there are cored punch shields(Haardgrim's Viking shield comes to mind).

[Angmarth]

I have no problem with discussing this idea, IF missiles are not reusable. Until that happens this discussion is completely pointless.

[Plithut]

what's considered cored/coreless?

cored = requires your hand and arm to control it.

coreless = uses only your hand to control it.

Savetuba that doesnt make sense. You cant define cored the same with you define coreless and then just add 'and arm'.

A cored sheild has a hard backing, usually wood.

A coreless sheild has no backing, but a rod of fiberglass (or pvc, etc.) to hold your hand.

[Tren]

At the very least this sounds like it might be pretty cool for a battle scenario, you institute no reusable missles, and red damage from javelins, everyone lines up and throws at the beginning, and then you see what comes out after the clusterf*ck of missles. Could be really fun.

[Aegis]

i dont remember any javelins breaking shields in history....

BALLISTA BOLTS yes.
Javelins, no.

[Od1n]

i dont remember any javelins breaking shields in history....

BALLISTA BOLTS yes.
Javelins, no.

Most later pila were constructed such that the iron shank would bend on impact. A pilum, having penetrated a shield through a small hole and its shank having bent would now be difficult to remove. It is likely that the shaft would hit the ground and thus stop the charging enemy in its tracks. Further injury would occur if the enemy did not discard the shield quickly enough or if he was "bumped" into the head by collision from the rear.

While the shield is not technically destroyed by a javelin, it could be disabled.[/quote]

[Aegis]

thats assuming the javvy penetrates the shield...

[Olos]

Everyone would want to throw black company javs if this happened and it required some sort of sufficient force

But, no, this wouldn't work, but I too wouldn't mind to see something done about the punch shield thing. I picked one up the other day after fighting exclusively strap since I started fighting, and it was quite a bit easier to kill people without dying. But that's just my take on it, and my observations from fighting people using both types.

[vek]

I have not found punch's to have a great advantage in our realm, mostly because we discovered that those little shields swivel to open for up the enemy quite nicely, but I still don't like them.

Making Red javs I think starts going toward a super weapon, because its a projectile, a spear and a flying red.

[Aegis]

i love controlling large punches and getting very easy wrap shots.

[vek]

isn't it awesome