Grabbing the blade, a short history

[Freyson]

1990 (from the Ragnarok tourney rules list sent to Avalon via Pentwyvren) - You are not allowed to grab someone else's weapon by the blade. If you do this the arm is gone.

1992 (From the Avalon/Dagorhir handbook) - DO NOT grab an opponent's weapon by the blade. If you do you loose the arm.

1993 (From an Avalon/Pentwyvren rule explanation handbook by Brotherhood of Blackmoore) - Don't try to grab an opponent's weapon by anything other than the handle, it could ruin the foam. Besides, if you touch the blade you loose the arm. Do whatever you want with your weapon, but you'll be building more weapons often if you swing by grabbing foam.

1994 (From the tourney addition to the Avalon rule book) - Grabbing the blade of an opponent's weapon causes the loss of the arm. You cannot block with an empty hand without loosing the arm.

1999 (From the Dagorhir Rules) 3.3.6.4 Gripping the blade or point of your opponents weapon with your hand results in the loss of that arm. (The rules in this section evolved to streamline playability and prevent arguments arising over whether the whole hand/foot was hit, or only a finger or toe. These rules also prevent fighters from blocking hits to other areas with their hand or foot, then crying "It doesn't count!"

2003 (Dagorhir rule) 3.8.4. Gripping the blade or point of your opponents weapon with your hand results in the loss of that arm.

Belegarth rule current, adopted 2002 3.7.5. Gripping the striking surface of an opponents Weapon results in the disabling of that limb


As you can see, there has always been a specific injunction against grabbing an opponent's striking surface. However, it has always been assumed that you can use your own weapon any way you wish. The Brotherhood of Blackmoore handout from 1993 even stated you can do this, but it would ruin weapon foam (remember, this was before all closed cell weapons were common). For a long time it was only the blade that caused the limb loss when grabbed. It was around 1999 that the rule added point as well. Belegarth further specified striking surface to prevent further arguments, and there were many. Was grabbing a club or round sword ok? What about the blade on the back of single edged weapons such as axes? To make it simple and easy, grabbing a striking surface caused limb loss.

The general origin of this rule was to prevent people in a grapple from being able to keep an opponent's weapon out of combat by hanging onto it by the blade, as well as to keep people from trying to block with hands and getting hurt. The injury thing is pretty self-explanatory, but there are some more game play reasons for the grapple situation. In reality it is difficult to hold onto a sword or even knife blade while someone else is trying to maneuver it by the handle. You will not get very badly injured unless it is extremely sharp, but you cannot keep holding it for long. A good set of leather gloves will protect against much more than a deep cut and maybe a few stitches while holding on to the average kitchen chef's knife (actually it was about 5 stitches, Zio was not the smartest in college). Foam has a tendency to add grip as the fingers dig in, giving an unnatural advantage to the person holding the blade. It is also much larger than a real blade which allows better leverage, again unfair. Then there is the point that the weapon may be damaged. This is a safety issue and a cost issue. People don't want their weapons being broken by someone grabbing the blade and yanking. Yet they have less of a problem if they do it themselves, hence the ability to * up your own weapon and the illegality of screwing up someone else's.

Since closed cell weapons are the norm now the safety issue is much less, but it is still a concern. It is possible to rip the foam off of a modern weapon by grabbing the striking surface, but it is much harder than with an old style open cell weapon. Also, a small amount of foam rip on a closed cell weapon has much less effect on safety to the target than a rip in an open cell weapon. A closed cell weapon can be swung repeatedly by holding onto the striking surface foam with little safety concerns, not so on the old open cell weapons. Two people in a grapple over a modern weapon may occasionally damage the weapon by grabbing the foam. The old style weapons would break almost immediately in a grapple if the foam got grabbed. When this happens, the closed cell weapon is almost never damaged so badly as to injure someone (though it would fail check) but the open cell weapons would be bare core.

In half swording techniques, or in just general holding of modern foam weapons, where the weapon is under the control of the wielder it is nearly impossible to damage the weapon without trying to. The closed cell foam is so much better than the old stuff that the safety argument of grabbing your own weapon is almost nil. Weapons are grabbed by the striking surface regularly in weapon checking and are rarely damaged. Spear wielders use the haft padding so much yet they almost never have to replace it.

The rules are and have always been clear... grabbing your own weapon anywhere is fine, grabbing someone else's striking surface isn't.