Moderator: Belegarth: Forum Moderators
Oisin wrote:Actually, not that I think about it, armour giving even a single hit of protection against arrows (note I say arrows, and purposely disinclude javelins) could pose a significant safety hazard, in that there will be some individuals who use that point of protection to actively block, swat or try to catch arrows. Those of you who have seen the pictures of arrow knocks embedded in shields should realize the danger that this could pose if swatting at arrows became a widespread practice . . . and then what's next, require some sort of severe anti-penetration device that would gimp arrowdynamics (pun completely unintentional, I swear ) even more than they already are?
Black Cat wrote:Maybe red-users and polearmists should just start wearing bucklers and learn how to use them? Otherwise, I am out of ideas for improving their odds on the field.
There are no staffs in Belegarth. Because of how they are constructed, they are really Pugil Sticks.
Kegg wrote:I am not sure that we want to give such a huge incentive for head shots.
Angmarth wrote:Thinking about this some more, I would refine damage like this.
1) There are 2 kinds of damage. Slash/Crush and Pierce.
1a) Damage is only delivered by blows of sufficient force.
2a) Missiles are considered to ALWAYS deliver sufficient force.
2) All armor absorbs 1 blow from a small hand held weapon, no matter how the blow is delivered
3) 2 handed blows from a great weapon penetrate armor, no matter how they are delivered
3a) 1 handed blows from a great weapon count as a 1 handed blow from a small weapon
3b) 2 Slash/Crush blows from a great weapon when wielded with 2 hands destroys a heavy shield
3c) 1 Slash/Crush blow from a great weapon when wielded with 2 hands destroys a light shield
4) Missiles are piercing weapons
4a) Missiles count as a 2 hand pierce vs. leather armor
4b) Missiles count as a 1 hand pierce vs. metal armor
4c) Shields and helmets are immune to missiles
While people might argue this is more complex, I think it is reasonable. After all, it is MY dream.
Thorondor wrote:Forkbeard, the ONLY problem with the one weight rule is this:
Bucklers = smaller = less weight
They are already small so they don't block as much. Why limit/hurt their use any more by giving them only one hit.
We don't want to get too complicated or we could say "a shield must weigh at least 1lb per square foot of surface area. That would get WAY too complicated at weapons check.
We COULD, on the other hand, put breaks on shields. Round shields at or under 20" must weight at least X for 2hits and round shields over 20" must weight at least Y for 2hits.
Then on non-square shields we could measure the LONGEST distance and use that for figuring the weight. Square/rectangle shields would be measured across the face (opposite corners). Heaters would be measured from their tip to the top of the shield, etc.
~?~
EDIT IN: Since at least one person decided NOT to read all of Angmarth's post, here it is...Angmarth wrote:Edhellen Old Tech Cored from here on out known as EOTC is a plywood back, metal bolts, leather straps, DAP contact cement and trigger cover.
Edhellen New Tech No Core from here on out known as ENTNC is a foam shield with fiberglass rod handle, using DAP contact cement and a trigger cover.
Standard Edhellen Buckler (EOTC): 1.85lbs, 154 square inches of protection - .19 oz per square inch
Standard Edhellen Coreless Punch (ENTNC): 2.92 lbs, 415 square inches of protection - .11 oz per square inch
Standard Edhellen Round Core (EOTC): 6.545 lbs, 594 square inches of protection - .18 oz per square inch
Standard Numenoren Heater Core (EOTC): 10.38 lbs, 756 square inches of protection - .22 oz per square inch
Standard Edhellen Coreless Tower Punch (ENTNC): 5.15 lbs, 864 square inches of protection - .095 oz per square inch
Rasheab wrote:Does anyone have a link to the arrow nock in shield picture?
Cyric wrote:It sounds really good to me, but we can't pass a single rule change without massive back and forth arguing on the same point, much less a complete overhaul of the rules.
Derian wrote:This would really simplify things. I think the best way to begin down that path is to let the current proposed stabbing rule die out (it's incomplete), and put forward one to standardize damage.
All one handed strikes do one point of damage: blue, single green.
Two handed strikes do two points of damage and negate armor: red weapons, double green, missile weapons.
The only part I don't like about what Physic proposed is the helmet rule. If missile weapons can damage helmets, there is pretty much no in game advantage to wearing them. People would only wear them for the extra protection from errant shots and looking cool.
Oisin wrote: I completely disagree about double green and archery only doing one point to armour, and helmets should remain as proof against missiles, but standardizing damage and limb rules is a very good thing.
Any two limbs = death = a good thing.
Single green = single blue = one point of armour damage = a good thing.
Oisin wrote: I also really like the idea of eliminating knee-running. *snip* Making legged fighters completely stationary seems like a bad idea to me. Maybe allow them to move at no faster than a slow walking pace?
Oisin wrote: *snip* Helmets being proof against missile fire is just a plain playability issue.
Oisin wrote: As far as armour goes, *snip* All the people who were already going to be wearing nice armour (either leather or metal) will already be wearing it, and everyone else will just rivet a few layers of suede together so that they can get that one arrow hit.
Oisin wrote: Archers don't need to be nerfed. *snip*but I've never heard a good argument as to why. *snip*
Oisin wrote:*snip*In a skirmishing situation, the guys with the swords and boards will still dominate both florentiners and redsworders.
Kaimelar Morikayun wrote:It gets a bit too into the technicalities but I also feel that a double green thrust that starts two handed, but which ends with one hand on the weapon (for momentum or reach purposes) should still count as 2 points.
Kaimelar Morikayun wrote:I dont think a thrown javelin would go through armor any more than a single handed dagger, but I do feel that an arrow on most occasions would penetrate.
Kaimelar Morikayun wrote:I think that 2 missiles to a helmet should count as death.
Arrakis wrote:Peter the Quick, among others, can knock you off of your feet with a one-handed stab. Should his bluesword stabs count as double green?
I've sort of been thinking lately that we should just get rid of double green all together. Let Green hit do one point of damage to ANY target area (armored or unarmored) and forget double green ever existed. it makes the rules simpler, everyone's life easier (spearmen can pool cue all the like), and just sounds like a better proposal to me.
By the way, Loptr: A pool-cue shot can be harder than the hardest two-handed style thrust. It's a mechanics issue.
Return to Rules Discussion And Development
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests