Rocks Again

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Rocks Again

Postby The Great Gigsby » Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:00 am

So uh... I saw all of 1 rock at Oktoberfest this year. Why don't we remove them again?
-Giggles

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Re: Rocks Again

Postby Spike » Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:47 am

Because lack of field presence doesn't justify an all out ban?
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Re: Rocks Again

Postby Kage » Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:06 am

Yep just let it die.
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Re: Rocks Again

Postby Raccoon » Tue Oct 13, 2009 10:01 pm

Cause we'd need to ban quarterstaves first
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Re: Rocks Again

Postby Satanaka » Wed Oct 14, 2009 11:38 am

and then magic sythes...

:devil:


Really though- Why remove something that adds to the fun? Why take something that has been with us for a long time?
It does serve as a balancing aspect to the game. Many people enjoy them as well as having the variety on the field. A rock is perfect for some people with HUGE EGOS!!!!!
:devil:
Last edited by Satanaka on Thu Oct 15, 2009 11:23 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Rocks Again

Postby Angmarth » Wed Oct 14, 2009 2:18 pm

The way to ban rocks (if you are inclined to do so), is to start at your local group. Rocks are banned in at least 2 realms (Arnor & Numenor) and I suspect there are others.
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Re: Rocks Again

Postby Elebrim » Wed Oct 14, 2009 3:35 pm

Giggles wrote:So uh... I saw all of 1 rock at Oktoberfest this year. Why don't we remove them again?


And there were about 100+ at Equinox two weeks before hand. Thanks, Wick!

It's all a matter of preference. Some like them/accept them, and some do not. Regional differences in preference can not and should not let one region make an executive change and ruin what someone else really enjoys.
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Re: Rocks Again

Postby calebmonkey » Thu Oct 15, 2009 8:19 am

o.k. first off okfest was muddy and my rocks are custom knit and made with love for me so yeah although i did bring like 4 to okfest i did not wanna **** them up
second rocks are fun im sorry that you take a game sooooo seriously
third and most important if you put on a helm ROCKS ARE NEGATED they dont work,at all for anything,in ever.Arrows and javs go through armor everywhere but head and rocks get their only target area taken away

so you know, sit on it potsy
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Re: Rocks Again

Postby Big King Jimmy » Thu Oct 15, 2009 11:06 am

Elebrim wrote:
Giggles wrote:So uh... I saw all of 1 rock at Oktoberfest this year. Why don't we remove them again?


And there were about 100+ at Equinox two weeks before hand. Thanks, Wick!

It's all a matter of preference. Some like them/accept them, and some do not. Regional differences in preference can not and should not let one region make an executive change and ruin what someone else really enjoys.


The only thing I have to say about this is that a single region can not pass a WC vote. When WC votes it is the will of Belegarth, not a particular region.
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Re: Rocks Again

Postby Forkbeard » Fri Oct 16, 2009 12:54 pm

While I agree that rocks are lame, they ain't leavin. I couldn't get my group to vote for that, and I could get them to agree to just about anything.
I think we SHOULD seriously think about bringing "sit on it" back into the common vernacular. That **** is funny.
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Re: Rocks Again

Postby Sir Par » Sat Oct 17, 2009 11:17 pm

Besides, without rocks how would Hish have won the battle of Hastings at Thaw 08?
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Re: Rocks Again

Postby Satanaka » Sat Nov 14, 2009 10:08 am

Seems like the same type of people want to take things out of the game: ends up being the things that might kill them that they can't call "light" on..... Hmmmmmmmm Makes ya think about a few things.

I am not a huge rock fan- I have used one from time to time- like maybe 100 times in over 15 years and I have been killed by them. I like the fact that they are in the game and give something different as well as keeps you on your toes. They also encourage helms.

I can remember when EVERONE from Numenor at one of the Rags were going to take a rock onto the bridge battle (back when the bridge battle was the main event for Realm bragging rights for the year) and use. Cool idea- would have loved to see that.

BUT then- we can also look at "healing poems" and where are they and what happened to that. But- that's another story from ages ago.

Long live the Rock Resistance!!!! Down with the EgoMan!!!
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Re: Rocks Again

Postby Xavier » Thu Jan 28, 2010 3:28 pm

Giggles wrote:So uh... I saw all of 1 rock at Oktoberfest this year. Why don't we remove them again?

:) I can proudly say that was probably my rock!


In all seriousness rocks are fun...do they make you a better fighter? No. Do they get alot of kills? Nope. But they throw people off...not everything in this game has to be about technique
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Re: Rocks Again

Postby bo1 » Thu Jan 28, 2010 4:59 pm

doesnt matter is bel bans rocks or not, local groups can use whatever they wish at there events.

arm and chaos are the only 2 event s that are locked into the BOW.

everyone else uses it at their leasure, many do for ease, but no rule states it is mandatory.
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Re: Rocks Again

Postby Arrakis » Thu Jan 28, 2010 5:47 pm

SUPPORT MORE DITCHING AT BEL EVENTS!

NO MORE BROKEN SHIELDS, NO PESKY ARMOR, NO IRRITATING MISSILE WEAPONS!

HUZZAH! DITCHING!!
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Re: Rocks Again

Postby Forkbeard » Thu Jan 28, 2010 6:55 pm

Ditch battles are not necessary in Bel. Sheild breaking, armor and missles are no problem for anyone.
The fact that they take these thing out for amtgard's ditch battles is what makes them gay.
Battles without their stupid magic system are fun, though.
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Re: Rocks Again

Postby Sir Anastasia » Thu Jan 28, 2010 8:35 pm

What are ditch battles?
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Re: Rocks Again

Postby Derian » Thu Jan 28, 2010 8:38 pm

It's a term in Amtgard where they basically throw out all rules except for basic combat. No classes, magic, missiles, armor or shield breaking.

Sort of like sparring on a large scale.
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Re: Rocks Again

Postby Rasheab » Fri Jan 29, 2010 3:42 am

I understand no missiles: they want to keep it melee & short ranged. I understand no armor: keep the fighting fast ('specially when 5+ armor points are possible).

I don't understand not allowing shield breaking. It nerfs one of the main advantages to using a "red" weapon, and intuitively it seems the opposite of the armor ban. Shields provide protection, and if they can't be broken, bashed, or kicked, people can turtle, slowing down the fighting.
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Re: Rocks Again

Postby Forkbeard » Fri Jan 29, 2010 10:00 am

Exactly Rasheab.
And what use could we possibly have for ditch battles in bel?
We'd be loosing only our armor, missle and shield rules. And our armor rules are not the complicated mess(+5 hits from armor) that amtgards are.
As for missles, how big a problem to flowing combat are they? None, and if they are, we call no reuseables and everything speeds right along.
How is it fun to call a battle where all the red weapon users, archers and armor wearers leave the field? It's not.
At Bel, mind you. I'm not talking about ditch battles at Amtgard here. At an Amt event, they are fun. But only becuase it's the onlt time they stop throwing majic.
Ditching at Bel events would only exclude a large portion of the people at the event from fighting.
I will NEVER fight in a Bel ditch battle. Why would I? I fight in armor with a red.
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Re: Rocks Again

Postby Arrakis » Fri Jan 29, 2010 11:19 am

How about: If you hate rocks or want to get better at fighting? Breaking shields, sure, leave that in a Bel ditch, if you like, but armor is a crutch and missiles mean less melee fighting.
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Re: Rocks Again

Postby Angmarth » Fri Jan 29, 2010 12:41 pm

Armor isn't a crutch, it is an in-game advantage. If you want the advantage get/wear some armor. If you want to fight on the side with someone and play speed tag to "first-hit" then knock yourself out, but don't expect people to want to do it en masse.

The reason ditching exists in Amtgard is to improve martial prowess. It is hard to get better at swinging foam when there are a ton of other rules flying around that either neutralize or limit your effectiveness with weapons. When you strip out class abilities (shield breaking is a class ability) then you are left with the bare bones of Amtgard combat. In the bare bone state, while it is similar, it is not the same. It isn't a game I choose to play, and I would oppose any vote or suggestion where the sole purpose was to include more of this at our events. While I am only one person, I think my sentiment is shared by many.
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Re: Rocks Again

Postby Arrakis » Fri Jan 29, 2010 12:59 pm

Dang, I didn't realize people cared so much about their security blankets. I'm not talking about making all/most of the main field fighting at Beltaine into this sort of BelDitching, I'm just talking about people doing a separate ditch field if they're **** sick of getting arched while trying to do some open-field florentine or glaive fighting or sick of the cheesin'-ass rock-chuckers that think they have skill because they kill good fighters with their little spellballs- oops, I mean totally legitimate rocks, yeah.

I'm primarily encouraging this because I **** hate our rocks and nuclear arrows. I was just keeping the armor and shield hits thing to remove another unbalancing factor (armor) and get rid of another source of contention (That shield-breaking hit was hard enough! No it wasn't!) and to disguise the fact that I really just want to fight without having to wear a shield to not get shot.
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Re: Rocks Again

Postby Azgarehta » Fri Jan 29, 2010 4:11 pm

Who likes rocks? THIS GUY.
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Re: Rocks Again

Postby Forkbeard » Sat Jan 30, 2010 10:15 am

Nuclear arrows? OUr arrows are crippled by the heads. Real arrows are sooo much more dangerous than ours. Thats a lame statment. Increase your field awarness, *.
Rocks are stupid, but helmets are cool. Get one. Wearing even a light leather helm that covers your face will increase your SCA fighting abaility. And keep rocks out of your world.
As for armor being a crutch, **** you in your **** face. Get a red. I don't consider the ONE hit I get etra against SOME(not all) of the weapons on the field any real advatage. I get more advantage from the fact that it intimadates stupid people who think it gives me an advantage.
None of these things are "crutches". They are part of our diverse and dangerous battlefield. It is considerably less complicated and dangerous to manuver on than a real one. To take away from it creates an artificaly sterile feild that many, many less people would enjoy. You think people leave the field when we have bridge battles. Calling ditch battle would make it a ghost town.
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Re: Rocks Again

Postby Arrakis » Sat Jan 30, 2010 2:17 pm

I really don't think you have any conception of what a ditch field is for.

Tell me you don't think it's crutchery for you to walk up to a group of good fighters in just garb who are sparring and start calling your armor against them. It's a great way to feel like you're a better fighter than you are and convince yourself of it.

What I'm saying is, I like sparring with large groups of people and that's what ditching is: face-to-face fighting without armor, or missiles, or anything else getting in the way of fighting good fighters and improving my game.

You seem to be thinking that I'm encouraging MOST of the fighting at an event to be done this way, or even that there should EVER be a main field battle called this way; NO. I'm saying, it'd be **** awesome for those of us who fight sword and board, fight Belegarth when we DON'T want to wear a * helmet, and DON'T own a full **** suit of Bel-legal armor for there to be a side-field for ditching. That way, when Joe Newbie gets sick and **** tired of getting shot in the chest while he's trying to fight florentine on his first ever event field, he's got a place he can go fight and enjoy himself while learning a lot instead of just getting **** killed every other round by some limp-wristed arrow-jockey before he even closes to melee.

God *, Fork. I'd expect you of all people to **** get this.

Oh, and: Arrows that go clean through maille or metal plate and kill you instantly == nuclear arrows. Real arrows don't do that, even fired from bows 4 times stronger than ours. There is nothing on the field that will protect your torso from an arrow other than a shield or not being there. Thus the complete lack of florentine and non-backshield/buckler-wearing red fighters/spear fighters on our fields.
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Re: Rocks Again

Postby Juicer » Sat Jan 30, 2010 3:43 pm

Lrn2dodge, yo. Avoiding battles with archers in them is a fantastic way to cripple yourself. You keep getting shot in the chest while florentining? That means the arrows are coming from your front quadrant, and the problem doesn't lie in overpowered arrows, it lies in your distinct lack of field awareness and/or inability to dodge. I used to hate archers too. I fought with nothing but a spear for quite a while, got targeted like mad. Then I learned to dodge. Now, if I can see them, they probably won't hit me. Seriously. Learn to dodge.

Leave ditching to amtgard. You want to improve your fighting? Go spar good fighters. Don't take a bunch of fighters off the field to play a different game. If you really must ditch, go to more amt events.
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Re: Rocks Again

Postby Azgarehta » Sat Jan 30, 2010 10:44 pm

On the subject of skill and ditching: The best way I've found to increase your skill is to find a better fighter and spar with them. To make it faster, take limbs as death. Change weapons as appropriate. Do individual drills on a single side: weapon only, shield only. Drill against multiple opponents. Add an archer for battlefield awareness.

On the subject of rocks. I have a helmet, I don't care about rocks anymore. In fact, I wholeheartedly support them to encourage more helmet use. Rocks are a wonderful tool that I can use as a spearman to kill big headed tower shield wearing swordmen.
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Re: Rocks Again

Postby Forkbeard » Sun Jan 31, 2010 2:38 pm

Jucier, you are absoluetly correct.
Arakkis, I see what you're saying about increasing skill. I just don't think events are the place for this.
"Ditch " rules are, in my opinion, good only for practice. That is where you learn to fight. Events are where you GO to fight. Where you go to show off what you have learned.
I love the idea of learning-based events like SKBC. I'm going. Bel should have some of these. But at the events I go to now, we need all the people on the same field to make things as fun as possible. Diluting them by having ditch battles at the same time would be gay as ****. Why would we want to split 100 people in half becuase half of them are new and want to play without half the rules? I believe that would make for a stupid event. Or more specificly, 2 smaller but and less fun events.
I believe Belegarth events are about the whole experience. Fighting in large group of diverse fighters on a complicated, dangerous field.
Learning mere swordplay in what we go to practice for.
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Re: Rocks Again

Postby Arrakis » Sun Jan 31, 2010 6:02 pm

Forkbeard wrote:Jucier, you are absoluetly correct.
...practice. That is where you learn to fight. Events are where you GO to fight. Where you go to show off what you have learned.
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Oohhhhh. See, every time I've been to an event, I spend at least a good solid third of my time fighting people who are better than me that aren't from my area and who I only ever get to see at events and trying to learn from them. But then, I've got a lot yet to learn, and you've been in the game a lot longer than I have. Point taken.
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Re: Rocks Again

Postby Big King Jimmy » Mon Feb 01, 2010 1:04 am

Forkbeard, also to be more specific on ditching at events, I've never even heard of someone trying to do it during the day. It doesn't detract from day fighting, but it's great for night fighting with flood lights, where you might not have enough light for missiles anyway.

Also, the ditching I've participated in, the biggest difference is that there is MAX 10 seconds between fights, it's literally "Fight, every ones dead, 3 2 1 FIGHT!" And this is great for night time as it tires you out. The guys that want to party and have a good time don't have to participate, and the guys that don't really party much and want to work on their skills can ditch.

A third and final point on ditching, is that from what I've seen and heard a lot of the line turning and fighting your 45's (the people 45 to your left and right) is frowned upon depending on the field. The idea is more like an endless line of sparing that shrinks.
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Re: Rocks Again

Postby Forkbeard » Mon Feb 01, 2010 9:05 am

I fully support people sraping after the main fightins. However they do it is none of my business.
I am just against this as schedualed event time. Many of us refer to events only as "Wars". This is because we come to make war on other armies.
Missles do suck in the dark. We call no missles at twilight every night at paractice.
As for not attacking on the 45's. Isn't that how you're SUPPOSED to fight a line battle? I really never attack the guy straught in front of me. I mean part of the danger of a line is the LINE of people trying to hit you. From 3 different angles.
Whatever. It's always * me off that I can't break shields in ditches. Sheild breaking being a class abaility in Amt is one of that games failings. That and not shooting in the face. If they could fix those, that game would be a lot more fun.
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Re: Rocks Again

Postby Poo » Mon Feb 01, 2010 9:14 am

technically great weapons aren't a class ability, they're just a construction classification. Shield breaking is partially a class ability. When it isn't, its guys swinging giant polearms, and when it is, its some cheese-face with a two 40" noodle swords calling red on every tappy hit because he's a barbarian... wraar.
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