Punch Blocking

[Goreth]

Having used the Search tool at the bottom of the page i dont find alot of material or posts on the subject of punch blocking. I have seen a member in recent threads depicting punch blocking as a method of poor gamesmanship. While i disagree with this notion i would like to point out another of his debated/closely related subjects.

I found this in the -Hand on Blade- thread:

"Our local interpritation of the rules is that you can grab your own striking surface, but no one else's. Half-swording is totaly legit. Why couldn't you do this. I used it last night against a guy from a fencing class who dicovered javlins."

Members, can i get some clarification on your idea of balanced gamesmanship? I punch block religiously. The, eh, Gauntlets are off.

[Forkbeard]

Safety realism and playability.
HALFSWORDING. Let me strat by saying I don't know if this is tje real name for grabbing your own blade, but it is the accepted Bel termfor it.
First, it is completly SAFE.
Second, in REAL lif, halfswording is a completly legit technique. It is illustrated in most mideval sword manuals.
Third, It does not interfere with playability.
Thus there is no reason why one should not do it.
Now for punch blocking.
Safety. Punchblocking is unsafe for only the punchblocker. This is why douchbags who do it need to wear mma gloves. Since it is only unsafe for the people who do it, it is not illlegal.
Realism. Punch blocking is totaly unrealistic. Even if you were wearing the best gauntlets ever made you still would not punch a real W handed sword to block. You wouldn't punch anyswords, that is NOT what gauntlets are for and that's not how swords work.
Playability. This is the reason hand on weapon shots don't count for us. If hand shots counted, our battles would last about 1/4 of the time they do now. Make hand on weapon out of play, we extend combat and therefun fun. Deliberatly abusing this rule, by punchblocking as much as possible and wearing special equipment just for that, is bad sportsmanship.
If you can't see that, it is because YOU do not understand the difference between good sportmanship and bad. I feel sorry for you.

Kreiger, if you're gonna call me out, try harder.
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[Goreth]

First, if wanted to call you out i would use your name, loudmouth.

Second, why is an orc talking to me about realism.

Third, im a Mauskalath and ill punch weapons all day... i absorb metal.

[Goreth]

I dont need gloves to punchblock. Hope you dont have to find out why.

[Forkbeard]

Oh, I thought you wanted to have an adult conversation about punchblocking as it applies to sportsmanship.
But I see you still an inbred nutjob. Take your **** meds, man.
Derian, either lock this or move it to GM, its gonna get ugly.
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[Goreth]

only one person is making this ugly. It appears youll continue till you have your bottle. Point is, ill punch block you. Youll get mad. Cuz its me with all the cost right? My hands, my choice.

[Tiberius Claudius]

I don't think Fork will get mad, so much as laugh hysterically when he breaks your fingers with a monster red hit....just the way the medieval sword manuals teach to see the hands as a target.

Can't hold the sword, can't fight.

Punch blocking certainly isn't realistic, but it has become a part of this sport. Do or don't; doesn't really matter.

[Sir Par]

Derian is at an event for the weekend. Please take it to GM yourselves guys.

[Goreth]

Tiberius, I dont punch block a red.

I hear Fork swings to maim.

Sir Par, already did.

[Slaug]

I disagree about it being bad sportsmanship. If the hand is part of the weapon, it's legal for you to swing at it. So if you can swing your sword at my hand-on-weapon, I can swing my hand-on-weapon to deflect your sword. For the purposes of our game, a hand on the weapon is part of the weapon. It's perfectly realistic to block a weapon with a weapon. As far as safety, that's why folks are wearing those MMA gloves. Much like people who tend to get legged wear knee-pads, people who take a lot of * shots wear cups, and people prone to getting hit in the head wear mouth guards.

I don't see an issue.

[The Great Gigsby]

If the hand is part of the weapon, it's legal for you to swing at it.

This is semantics, but it's important to point out, your hand is not part of the weapon. For the sake of playability (as Fokrbeard pointed out) and because it's a convention in practically every medieval combat group, the rule is "A Hand on a Weapon or Shield is considered part of that Weapon or Shield." Nobodies hands are a part of their weapon. If you can't tell the difference between "being", and "considered being" I consider you stupid.

Your hands are not weapons. They're hands. Blocking weapons with your hands is realistic; it's also a great way to break your fingers. It's silly that a shot that would disable an arm is magically deflected by your knuckles but that's the way the rules are spelled out.

I dislike punch blocking and consider it close to intentional head blocking when it comes to cheesing the rules. It will never be enforceable but I'm with Fork, it's poor sportsmanship. If you want to block proper, build a crossguard.

[Forkbeard]

Thank you giggles, that is exactly what I meant.
after talking to the people at practice, they have confirmed my feelings.
While 2 of the 7 I talked to felt that halfswording was probly cheesy(even though its not, Im bringing sword manuals to practice next week) ALL of them feel deliberate punchblocking is definetly cheesy and definetly dangerous to the user without special gloves.
Im goin to poll people at TB this weekend.
But once more, for the record,
Halfswording is legal and a very real technique. Punchblocking is a consession we make for playability and is in no way realistic fighting.
That is a HUGE difference.
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[Slaug]

If the hand is part of the weapon, it's legal for you to swing at it.

This is semantics, but it's important to point out, your hand is not part of the weapon. For the sake of playability (as Fokrbeard pointed out) and because it's a convention in practically every medieval combat group, the rule is "A Hand on a Weapon or Shield is considered part of that Weapon or Shield." Nobodies hands are a part of their weapon. If you can't tell the difference between "being", and "considered being" I consider you stupid.

Your hands are not weapons. They're hands. Blocking weapons with your hands is realistic; it's also a great way to break your fingers. It's silly that a shot that would disable an arm is magically deflected by your knuckles but that's the way the rules are spelled out.

I dislike punch blocking and consider it close to intentional head blocking when it comes to cheesing the rules. It will never be enforceable but I'm with Fork, it's poor sportsmanship. If you want to block proper, build a crossguard.

Your own considerations aside, for the purposes of our game 'considered being' and 'being' are one in the same on the field. The hand is considered part of the weapon, and so it is part of the weapon. As far as the letter and spirit of the rule go, an MMA glove might as well be a crossguard. It's also unrealistic that a foot on the ground can't be chopped off no matter how much you hack at it, a severed and mangled leg being able to take infinite punishment, and a warrior with his arm hacked off at the shoulder running around at full speed and ganking folks left and right. Belegarth is in no way realistic, as evidenced by our monsters and fantasy creatures. However, if your gripe is realism, I concede you that ineffably. It is in no way realistic for anyone without a brain tumor to try and deflect a blade with their bare fist, or even a gauntleted fist.

I thought the topic was sportsmanship. As far as sportsmanship is concerned, I don't see it as any different than putting your dead leg in front while you're on a knee and holding the live one back and out of the way.

Intentional Head Blocking: Doesn't happen much in Dur-Demarion. If it did, I would be livid. That is poor sportsmanship. The head is an illegal target, and forcing your opponent to make even an accidental illegal maneuver to convey an advantage which is in no way condoned by the rules is contemptible. If it ever became an issue down here we'd probably start a pool on who could collect the most teeth.

Half-swording: Legit. Also a great way to vary your range for no-zone infighting.

[Arrakis]

I don't punch block, in that I don't try to catch shots on my hands; I try to catch them just above and below my hands on my handle, pommel, and lower portion of my blade.

Sometimes my aim isn't perfect and I take a shot in the hand. For that reason, I wear excellent gloves.

Legit.

[The Great Gigsby]

You're doing it right.