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 Post subject: Murder Masks Are Not Armor Alone
PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 3:32 pm 
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I know this is going to be a can of worms but I think it needs to be opened.

Let me set the stage properly. I love the look of murder masks. I can't wear one myself (claustrophobia makes it hard to breath in them), but I like the look of them. To those that make awesome murder masks, please don't think this is an attack on your work, you do make good ****.

That being said...

[emphasis added]
Quote:
3.1.4. Head - Area above the base of neck (exclusive).

3.3.3. Armor must be of a size to cover a significant portion (approximately one-third) of a Target Area. Armor extending continuously from another Target Area is not required to significantly cover neighboring Target Areas to count as Armor.

3.1.5. Helmet - Armor for the Head and Neck.


The above rules are the ones applicable to this discussion.

As you can see, the head and neck are considered to be a single target area for combat and armor purposes.

99.9% of all murder masks that hit the field barely cover a quarter of the head and nothing of the neck. There are a few out there that do, such as Alexi's (which covers nearly half his head). But the vast majority of them do not.

We don't count leather wristbands as armor because they don't cover enough of the arm, why are we counting murder masks?

Toss on an armor-grade hat and you're good to go. But unless more murder masks are bigger or coupled with another piece, we need to follow the rules.

What's your take?

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 Post subject: Re: Murder Masks Are Not Armor Alone
PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 4:44 pm 
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I am sad to agree with that wording and interpretation. I would not mind putting an exemption in the rules for that particular target area because the masks are indeed pimp, and distinctly Bel looking.

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 Post subject: Re: Murder Masks Are Not Armor Alone
PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 4:47 pm 
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I've got to say that I agree completely. You hit the nail on the head with the slippery slope this could cause as far as passing things that don't cover enough surface area. I've always worn mine with an older helmet that I own.

Since you've already pointed out that it would open a can of worms, I'd like to point out that I'm not particularly fond of the armor-grade hats. After looking through the BoW, the only stipulation that requires armor to LOOK like armor is in the composite armor section. Would we want to possibly change this? Everytime I go to an armor check I have to wear it; not only is it inspected for the materials it is made of, but its appearance is inspected as well. I'm assuming that armor is supposed to LOOK like armor, right? These hats-made-from-the-same-leather-thickness-that-we-require-for-armor don't really look like it to me.

(Disclaimer: I am also not attempting to discredit murder masks or armor-grade hats, they look awesome)

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 Post subject: Re: Murder Masks Are Not Armor Alone
PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 4:49 pm 
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Depends on the size of the head and neck too if you want to get technical. Is this really a big deal though, or is this just because everybody has a murder mask right now?

Would an armor grade choker or sweat band be enough to make a difference? Because either of those would add nothing for protection really and be for looks and meeting the 1/3 requirement. Or would a larger piece be needed. Really it's the smallest target area we have and it's a piece of armor that is only good for a rare set of hits. (how often do you get shot in the area protected my a mask).

(Not mad, just curious how serious this whole discussion is.)

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 Post subject: Re: Murder Masks Are Not Armor Alone
PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 5:23 pm 
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Ignatius wrote:
Is this really a big deal though, or is this just because everybody has a murder mask right now?


Given the huge surge in murder masks, I think it does need to be talked about. I was remiss in not bringing it up when they first started taking off, but this Chaos kind of showed how rampant these are.

Ignatius wrote:
Would an armor grade choker or sweat band be enough to make a difference? Because either of those would add nothing for protection really and be for looks and meeting the 1/3 requirement. Or would a larger piece be needed.


I'd say no to a choker, but stipulate that a gorget would suffice as adding that neck protection would reach the "approximate 1/3rd" mark. As it stands right now I strongly feel that a larger piece would be necessary.

Ignatius wrote:
Really it's the smallest target area we have and it's a piece of armor that is only good for a rare set of hits.


The size of a target area isn't applicable, I think. Armor must, according to the BoW, cover a significant portion of the target area in order to count as armor. Otherwise, it's just decoration. I feel this is basically the same issue with those folks that only wear pauldrons and consider them to be armor, despite it not covering enough of either torso or arm.

Ignatius wrote:
(how often do you get shot in the area protected my a mask).


Given how many were on the field this past week at Chaos Wars and how many times I witnessed/heard them being called as armor... I'm going to say it's a lot.

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 Post subject: Re: Murder Masks Are Not Armor Alone
PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 6:02 pm 
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I'm inclined to agree with Rev.

Rules are rules are rules.
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1.4. Creative interpretation of the rules to gain any advantage is discouraged. These rules are intentionally sparse to allow for ease of use.
The Marshal, according to these rules, and medieval foam combat precedent, settles all disputes


Seems that precedent may be winning out on this particular issue though; however, if 1/3 of the target area must be covered, then 1/3 of the target area must be covered. Plain and simple.

The issue, as I see it, however, is actually one of "why does it have to be 1/3 of the target area that's covered?"

In real life, if someone is wearing sufficient armor and is struck there, it doesn't matter how much other area was also covered. I'm in favor of getting rid of rule 3.3.3 to allow smaller pieces of armor such as kidney belts, small bracers, or strategically placed pieces of armor. If an unarmored portion is struck along with the armored portion, then honor dictates the more damaging hit (unarmored portion) is taken. Strict heralding, honest fighters, and peer pressure will resolve conflicts, and I believe a balance will be struck between truly useless tiny pieces of armor and smaller pieces of armor that don't cover 1/3 the target area but are placed where the user gets hit a lot.

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 Post subject: Re: Murder Masks Are Not Armor Alone
PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 9:39 pm 
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I suspect the 1/3 requirement has to do with playability. I can imagine a kid with a wrist band saying everything is hitting that when it isn't. When armor covers a small area, it may be difficult to see whether it was hit or not. Since those people wouldn't be burdened with mobility issues, they get too much of a benefit without the drawbacks of real armor. Having armor cover a % of the target may be a way to prevent massive cheesing.

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 Post subject: Re: Murder Masks Are Not Armor Alone
PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 7:57 am 
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I agree with Rev, They are NOT armor when worn alone.
Wear more leather on your head with your mask.
Thems the rules.
You could lobby to get them changed to allow for head armor to have different rules.
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 Post subject: Re: Murder Masks Are Not Armor Alone
PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:27 am 
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What about if you use a murder mask with just throat armor? Does it have to be a full gorget?
http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/katchu/katchu.html
I'm referring to the stuff at the bottom, under neck armor.

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 Post subject: Re: Murder Masks Are Not Armor Alone
PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 3:57 pm 
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If it covers the required percentage of the target area, it passes, just like belts or bracers.
A 4" weight belt is not armor, but a 10" belt is. A 2" cuff is not a bracer, but an 6" one is on the right little arm.
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 Post subject: Re: Murder Masks Are Not Armor Alone
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 2:14 am 
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Eh. We tend to be kinda lenient on that 1/3rd rule to begin with. I see people calling armor on just bracers or greaves all the time. Sure, if you're a skinny ****, then MAYBE that's a third of your arm or leg. But if you're packing some guns, or are just plain flabby, well... closer to a quarter of the target zone or less if we're being realistic. Plus, the target zone becomes larger every time your foot leaves the ground or your hand leaves your weapon. If my bracers DO happen to just barely cover a third of the overall area of my arm, does that mean I can't call armor once I drop my sword? Since now the target zone is larger and the bracer no longer technically covers a third of it?

Personally I feel like the masks cover enough of the zone to be recognizable as armor, they look cool, and are in no way an attempt to cheese the rules. These are things we all look for in any form of armor. And find lacking in many. So I say we either look the other way and just pretend it's a third (like we do with some bracers and greaves) or change the rule to 1/4 or 1/5 or some *. 1/4 would make most of the masks legal (and most bracers and greaves), 1/5 would start including things like lone kidney belts, armor skirts, and maybe even tall gorgets.

Start asking all the mask wearers to put on extra hats, I'll start asking all you fat dudes with bracers to put on pauldrons or something.
(Note: I do not have a mask... yet.(I'm looking at you, Plithut))

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 Post subject: Re: Murder Masks Are Not Armor Alone
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 6:06 am 
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Juicer, you are talking about rule change. Talk to your war council rep.
Ido not allow bracers that are too small on the field when I;m in charge. They either cover 1/3 of the area, or we ALREADY make people wear paldrons.
I guess i just havent seen the people yourtalking about. My greaves(and al the greaves I make, cover from ankle to above then knee. like half the leg.
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 Post subject: Re: Murder Masks Are Not Armor Alone
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 7:56 am 
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Juicer wrote:
Eh. We tend to be kinda lenient on that 1/3rd rule to begin with. I see people calling armor on just bracers or greaves all the time. Sure, if you're a skinny ****, then MAYBE that's a third of your arm or leg. But if you're packing some guns, or are just plain flabby, well... closer to a quarter of the target zone or less if we're being realistic. Plus, the target zone becomes larger every time your foot leaves the ground or your hand leaves your weapon. If my bracers DO happen to just barely cover a third of the overall area of my arm, does that mean I can't call armor once I drop my sword? Since now the target zone is larger and the bracer no longer technically covers a third of it?

Personally I feel like the masks cover enough of the zone to be recognizable as armor, they look cool, and are in no way an attempt to cheese the rules. These are things we all look for in any form of armor. And find lacking in many. So I say we either look the other way and just pretend it's a third (like we do with some bracers and greaves) or change the rule to 1/4 or 1/5 or some *. 1/4 would make most of the masks legal (and most bracers and greaves), 1/5 would start including things like lone kidney belts, armor skirts, and maybe even tall gorgets.

Start asking all the mask wearers to put on extra hats, I'll start asking all you fat dudes with bracers to put on pauldrons or something.
(Note: I do not have a mask... yet.(I'm looking at you, Plithut))


I can't think of a pair of greaves I've seen that don't cover the knee, or a pair of bracers I've seen that don't at least come TO the elbow. Seriously, pics or it didn't happen.

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 Post subject: Re: Murder Masks Are Not Armor Alone
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 10:46 am 
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I never really wear them these days, but my greaves and most of the ones I've seen stop about an inch below the knee. Edhellen standard, although I am a bit on the tall side. I think Juicer is on the right track here. I've always believed, and had it explained to me, that the 'significant coverage' rule was mostly just to make armor easily visible and recognizable as such. Getting bogged down on these details seems like kind of a waste of effort. Especially for murder masks.

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 Post subject: Re: Murder Masks Are Not Armor Alone
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 11:59 am 
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The other reason for the rule was to prevent things like chainmaille necklaces and leather bracelets to not be counted as armor.

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 Post subject: Re: Murder Masks Are Not Armor Alone
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 12:08 pm 
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Jimmy keep min mind not all greaves cover the back of the calf as well. I know a couple around here that only cover about half way around and have laces covering the back.

Thinking about that they are only covering 1/4th, being that they are covering the front half of the lower half of your leg.


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 Post subject: Re: Murder Masks Are Not Armor Alone
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 12:15 pm 
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Then they aren't armor either. I'm not saying it's a good rule.

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 Post subject: Re: Murder Masks Are Not Armor Alone
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 3:13 pm 
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This is a rule that has generally been very lenient to the point of almost being swept under the rug. People in only a chain shirt with quarter sleeves have been counting the sleeve as arm armor for as long as I've been fighting, and it's never really caused a fuss. The rule really is to prevent people from calling "armor" when you hit their leather belt or chain necklace (like mentioned earlier) and I think that 1/3 is an appropriate ratio for the standard.

If this something that a herald or weapons checker decides they are going to crack down on, it needs to be across the board and needs to include Everything that doesn't cover a solid 1/3 including chain shirts, armor-grade hats (the armor grade rice-picker hats are tricky if you don't include the part that protrudes from the body into the equation), bracers and greaves that don't wrap all the way around the limb, armored skirts, etc, etc, etc...


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 Post subject: Re: Murder Masks Are Not Armor Alone
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 3:24 pm 
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Ralimar wrote:
People in only a chain shirt with quarter sleeves have been counting the sleeve as arm armor for as long as I've been fighting


perfectly legal. Armor covering less 1/3 of a target area counts as armor if part of a piece of armor that is legal for another target area. It's in the rules, and worded better there.

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 Post subject: Re: Murder Masks Are Not Armor Alone
PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 11:23 am 
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I think we should reword the rules to make the face it's own individual target area which carries on damage to the head, the way the foot is to the leg.

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 Post subject: Re: Murder Masks Are Not Armor Alone
PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 2:14 pm 
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Dagganoth wrote:
I think we should reword the rules to make the face it's own individual target area which carries on damage to the head, the way the foot is to the leg.


No.


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 Post subject: Re: Murder Masks Are Not Armor Alone
PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 3:26 pm 
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Blackwolfe wrote:
Dagganoth wrote:
I think we should reword the rules to make the face it's own individual target area which carries on damage to the head, the way the foot is to the leg.


No.


Why not?

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 Post subject: Re: Murder Masks Are Not Armor Alone
PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 3:57 pm 
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Zeldrine Cold wrote:
Blackwolfe wrote:
Dagganoth wrote:
I think we should reword the rules to make the face it's own individual target area which carries on damage to the head, the way the foot is to the leg.


No.


Why not?


Because the face is always part of the head. There is no face on weapon, or face on ground, to distinguish between when the face would be part of the head and when it's a lone target.

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 Post subject: Re: Murder Masks Are Not Armor Alone
PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 8:00 pm 
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I do, however, yell "FACE" when I get hit there.

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 Post subject: Re: Murder Masks Are Not Armor Alone
PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2011 8:10 am 
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But you should say "head" why you head gets hit. Calling "face" is just mellow drama. Your telling the person"****! you hit my FACE! waaahh!' Instead of merely indicating that your were hit in an illegal target area.
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 Post subject: Re: Murder Masks Are Not Armor Alone
PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2011 2:37 pm 
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So, in summation, I don't think there is anything wrong, either with murder masks or the rules. If a mask covers approximately 1/3 of the head/neck like Aleksii's does, it passes as armor by itself. If it does not, it needs to be accompanied by some sort of helm (armor grade yarmulke?) to match the requirement.


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 Post subject: Re: Murder Masks Are Not Armor Alone
PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2011 7:18 pm 
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Ralimar wrote:
So, in summation, I don't think there is anything wrong, either with murder masks or the rules. If a mask covers approximately 1/3 of the head/neck like Aleksii's does, it passes as armor by itself. If it does not, it needs to be accompanied by some sort of helm (armor grade yarmulke?) to match the requirement.



^^this...


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 Post subject: Re: Murder Masks Are Not Armor Alone
PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2011 4:18 pm 
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A helm, an overly large armor grade headband, dangly bits like on the bottom of a mempo(covers the throat, which is part of the head).
Basicly, if you have 1/3 of your head covered in continuous armor material, your good.
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 Post subject: Re: Murder Masks Are Not Armor Alone
PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 7:52 pm 
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So Pey Ell (A numbers wiz) and I just did the math on my mask. My head and neck (over estimated to account for nose, ears, eye sockets and whatnot,) is approximately 140 inches. My murder mask covers just over 50 inches. (10 inches wide, 5 tall at its shortest point. Doesn't include chin cup or wing tips on the sides or the bridge of the nose piece) This is more than 1/3, even if just barely. My mask was made by Plithut (like a ton of others on the field this year) and I have a fairly average head size (head, not ego) and so my guess is, even though it doesn't look like it, chances are that most masks are coming in right on that 1/3 line like mine does. And the rule also says approximately one third, to give armor checkers some leeway in the field, when they don't have a ruler and the ability to do math on EVERYONE's head. I think they're golden.

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 Post subject: Re: Murder Masks Are Not Armor Alone
PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 10:14 pm 
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Sir Par wrote:
So Pey Ell (A numbers wiz) and I just did the math on my mask. My head and neck (over estimated to account for nose, ears, eye sockets and whatnot,) is approximately 140 inches. My murder mask covers just over 50 inches. (10 inches wide, 5 tall at its shortest point. Doesn't include chin cup or wing tips on the sides or the bridge of the nose piece) This is more than 1/3, even if just barely. My mask was made by Plithut (like a ton of others on the field this year) and I have a fairly average head size (head, not ego) and so my guess is, even though it doesn't look like it, chances are that most masks are coming in right on that 1/3 line like mine does. And the rule also says approximately one third, to give armor checkers some leeway in the field, when they don't have a ruler and the ability to do math on EVERYONE's head. I think they're golden.



Well done, sir. Well done.


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 Post subject: Re: Murder Masks Are Not Armor Alone
PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:29 am 
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Hooray for math.
Now some one else do it in another place.
Arriakis, I'm lookin at you.
After 2 people get the same-ish answer, we'll know it's cool.
I feel good about this. If it covers a 3rd of your head, it's cool.
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 Post subject: Re: Murder Masks Are Not Armor Alone
PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:46 am 
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For clarification we calculated my head and neck as cylinders, and then subtracted the plane where they meet. This overestimates the size of the head because the head has sloping dimensions instead of being a perfect cylinder.

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 Post subject: Re: Murder Masks Are Not Armor Alone
PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 12:04 pm 
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Forkbeard wrote:
Hooray for math.
Now some one else do it in another place.
Arriakis, I'm lookin at you.
After 2 people get the same-ish answer, we'll know it's cool.
I feel good about this. If it covers a 3rd of your head, it's cool.
FB


*siiiigh*

Fine.

But I'm going to approximate my head as an ellipsoid and get the warped plane surface for my mask. Just out of spite.

I'll do it when I get home tonight.


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 Post subject: Re: Murder Masks Are Not Armor Alone
PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 6:50 pm 
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Yeah, I meant you.
Thanks bro. Smart people doing the math is what settles arguments like this in the best way.
If we have the math from 2 indepentant sources, people will accept it.
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 Post subject: Re: Murder Masks Are Not Armor Alone
PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:50 pm 
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Ok.

Dimensions of my head:

Circumference, Axis 1 (Brow): 23.5"
Circumference, Axis 2 (Face): 26.5"
Circumference, Axis 3 (throat to nape): 26"
Neck: 15.5" circumference, 2.5" length (max measurements)

Those circumferences back calculate (based on initial estimates from my head-shape with a ruler, halved) to approximate axis lengths for the ellipsoid of:

Axis 1 = 4"
Axis 2 = 4.4"
Axis 3 = 3.5"

(I used the Ramanujan approximation of the perimeter of an ellipse.)


So, total head+neck area of that ellipsoid+rectangle (the side of a cylinder) is

4*pi*((4"^1.6075*4.4"^1.6075+4"^1.6075*3.5"^1.6075+4.4"^1.6075*3.5"^1.6075)/3)^(1/1.6075) + 2.5"*15.5" = ~236 sq. in.

Yes, I know my head is large. It's where I keep my brains.

Anyway, the surface area of my mask I'm going to approximate as the area of a trapezoid with a top width of 12", a bottom width of 9", and a height of 6", which has a surface area of a+b/2 *h = (12"+9")/2*6" = 63 sq. in.

That's a ratio of 63 sq. in./236 sq. in. = 0.27.

That means that I'm pessimistically about 16 sq. in. of armor away from exact 1/3 coverage of my large-ass head+neck area, which is basically a 2/3" wide 13 oz leather headband or a 1.25" wide gorget.

Optimistically, assuming some overlap in my head/neck join and some loss of area for the high estimation of my head axes lengths, I have 1/3 coverage, but just barely. If each of my head axis measurements are 0.2" too big and my neck measurement has a half inch of overlap, that brings me down to 208 sq. in. If my mask estimate is small, which it is, but not by 6 sq. inches. So, probably, my particular mask isn't quite 1/3 coverage by itself.


But it's a near thing, either way. And if 0.3x is close enough to one-third for your reading of the rule, I only need 7 sq. in. of coverage at worst and I'm 0.5 sq. in. over (for a minimum head+neck surface area estimation).


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 Post subject: Re: Murder Masks Are Not Armor Alone
PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 7:38 am 
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So Arrakis, knowing that your mask is JUST BARELY under where you would need to be for armor, would you call it good as a weapons/armor checker or Head Herald for an event?

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 Post subject: Re: Murder Masks Are Not Armor Alone
PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 7:52 am 
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Hmm...


I think I would. This is based on the fact that it's a single bulk piece that is localized to a particular direction on my head. Any shot from behind would clearly not be armor and most shots from the side would not be armor, as would any shots that hit the top of my head or forehead. Basically, it would only stop attacks to my lower face, nose, mouth, and cheeks/jawline. Shot taking would not be complicated, especially considering the fact that only the three projectile weapons of Belegarth combat could hit me for damage in that target area.

I also considered armor judgements commonly made in foam combat for my decision. Pieces such as front-only (non-cased) greaves only cover the front half or 60% or so of the lower half (closer to 40% by surface area) of a person's leg. That's 25% coverage, but we allow it and it doesn't cause problems because a) the leg is a large target area and it's readily apparent what part is armored and what part isn't and b) the piece of armor is "armor-sized".

The way I understand the rule in question, it's intended mostly to keep out armor-grade watchbands and prevent your regular old latigo belt that just happens to be 3/16" thick from getting called as armor on basically every torso shot. More min-max/cheesy, it would prevent you from wearing two 3/16" thick 1/2" wide latigo baldrics crossing over your chest and saying that literally every torso shot from any side had to hit one of them and calling them armor.

That being the case, it doesn't seem to me that a piece of armor that only covers 25% of the area is insufficient, so long as it's a regular armor piece, like a greave, a vambrace, a spaulder, or a mempo.



All of that said, I wear my mask almost exclusively either as a decorative element OR with the addition of a 3/16" leather rice hat (jin-gasa).


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 Post subject: Re: Murder Masks Are Not Armor Alone
PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 8:03 am 
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That was my thinking exactly. Plus, if you want to get into the semantic side the rule does say "approximately" and I'd definitely call 2.7 approximately 3.33.

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 Post subject: Re: Murder Masks Are Not Armor Alone
PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 8:12 am 
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Close enough for me.
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 Post subject: Re: Murder Masks Are Not Armor Alone
PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 9:08 am 
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I'm sold.

Yay for maths.

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 Post subject: Re: Murder Masks Are Not Armor Alone
PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 9:47 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Murder Masks Are Not Armor Alone
PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 4:52 pm 
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Good work.

Since there are independent calculations, and a general consensus in this thread, I'd like to see a rule wording change next voting session to incorporate this line of thought:

Arrakis wrote:
That being the case, it doesn't seem to me that a piece of armor that only covers 25% of the area is insufficient, so long as it's a regular armor piece, like a greave, a vambrace, a spaulder, or a mempo.

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 Post subject: Re: Murder Masks Are Not Armor Alone
PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 5:00 pm 
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Because if we change it, then people will be trting to cheese that percentage and we'll end up wih armor that only covers 17% of the area, because it is approx. 25%. I like the approx. 1/3 rule. It still gives checkers some leeway to approve things which aren't quite 1/3 but still effectivly act as armor.

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 Post subject: Re: Murder Masks Are Not Armor Alone
PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 5:04 pm 
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Why the **** would we change it?
That would be dumb.
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 Post subject: Re: Murder Masks Are Not Armor Alone
PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 5:29 pm 
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Having the leeway of "approximate" works right now because we're trying to pass gear that in one case has been demonstrated to not actually cover 1/3 of the target area, by however small a margin. Sure, the mask is within the spirit of the rules and it is clearly obvious what is and what is not covered, but by changing it to 25% without the word "approximate" and simultaneously giving specific examples of what is legitimate armor, we eliminate the need for this leeway and the possibility of cheesing with tiny pieces of armor.

This way, those open-backed greaves that go from ankle to knee, open-backed bracers from wrist to elbow, or face masks that only cover the bottom portion of the face alone can legally be passed at all Realms instead of just at those realms whose armor checkers are encourged to liberally interpret the rules and let things slide because "everyone's doing it". Armor checkers don't technically have to pass anything that doesn't meet 1/3 even with the word "approximate" in the ruling. If we adjusted the rules to 25% and got rid of "approximate" then this common sense stuff must be passed, and the law will be on the side of the checkers when armor wearers want to plead their case.

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 Post subject: Re: Murder Masks Are Not Armor Alone
PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 7:44 pm 
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I didn't even know the word approximate was there. I'm totally okay now, and see no need to change it. Fake Tibby, if you make it a hard one quarter eventually someone is going to have to bust math at weapons check. Stop being dumb.

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 Post subject: Re: Murder Masks Are Not Armor Alone
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 2:33 pm 
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It's been decided that a murder mask does cover enough to be called armor.

There's nothing wrong with the wording of the rule as is.

My $0.02


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 Post subject: Re: Murder Masks Are Not Armor Alone
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 6:38 pm 
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I'll say a lot of rude things at armor check to the person who wants to measure my head to check to see if I'm good to wear a piece of leather on my face to keeps arrows off my teeth and nose.

My $.02

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 Post subject: Re: Murder Masks Are Not Armor Alone
PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 6:17 am 
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Thread's over, dude. Murder masks are both fly and legal. The end.

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