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 Post subject: Both Legs Pierced
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 5:33 am 
Barbarian
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Yesterday at practice a situation arose where I had been shot in both legs by an archer. This raised an interesting question since we very rarely have missile weapons in our realm. When a person has both legs pierced is it illegal for them to move using their legs? Both your legs are disabled but it doesn't state anything about mobility in that situation in the book of war. Up until now we've just been assuming you can only roll or move without use of said legs but we just noticed there's no clarification.

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 Post subject: Re: Both Legs Pierced
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 5:54 am 
Veteran
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since they are both disabled, you shouldn't use them for any kind of movement. you can still roll or crawl using your arms, but you shouldn't do anything with your leg muscles.

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 Post subject: Re: Both Legs Pierced
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 7:32 am 
Slayer
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Cyric's answer is absolutely correct. Going to a national field and trying to find people who actually do that makes for a hell of a challenge though. This is a rule that is rarely played consistently or correctly.

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 Post subject: Re: Both Legs Pierced
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 4:44 pm 
Hero
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Amen to that....people knee walk all the time w/ two injured legs.

Be honorable and stay put unless you crawl or roll.

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 Post subject: Re: Both Legs Pierced
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 9:24 pm 
Hero
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Two limbs should be death. That makes it SOOOO much easier.

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 Post subject: Re: Both Legs Pierced
PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 6:57 am 
Slayer
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It failed a rules vote. Nothing more to be done for the time being, dude. I argued for it too, but democracy means sometimes you don't get what you want.

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 Post subject: Re: Both Legs Pierced
PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 9:33 pm 
Barbarian
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Yeah it would definitely make it easier to explain to newbies..

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 Post subject: Re: Both Legs Pierced
PostPosted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 2:19 am 
Become One With the Wind
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You're free to play that way in your realm. It probably honestly won't effect you at all on a field at a large event.

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 Post subject: Re: Both Legs Pierced
PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 2:12 pm 
Hero
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Not necessarily, Derian. Last year at 'Fest I met a group of about a half-a-dozen newer fighters who didn't know at all about the piercing rules. No one in their home realm had taught them the rules. They were losing a LOT of fights that they shouldn't have because they weren't accurately portraying their pierced limbs, so I took the two minutes to explain it to them and it helped them a lot.

If people are taught the proper rules from the get-go, and have the chance to fight enough to learn them, then there's no issue. But when they are mis-taught or rules are left out there can be problems. Just take the time to properly explain things, and the initial time investment will pay off well in the long run.

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 Post subject: Re: Both Legs Pierced
PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 11:47 pm 
Become One With the Wind
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I understand that it can cause confusion, but honestly what were they losing? 90 seconds of play time every 10 minutes at best? I can count on one hand the number of non-death pierce injuries I take during an event, but then again I pay attention to archers and generally avoid spears.

I'm not advocating that realm leaders keep new people in the dark about rules, but a simple "BTW, two pierced limbs doesn't kill you" reminder isn't that difficult if the concept has been explained prior.

If I recall correctly, doesn't Arnor play this way? I haven't heard of any issues they've had with it. Angmarth/whoever, can you comment on this?

With all that in mind, please note that I'm not advocating for this particular rule (I like the pierce rules as they stand, ridiculous though they may be) or that realms modify their rules from the BoW, but rather want to point out that each realm is free to use or modify the Book of War as they see fit as long as they keep in mind the impact this will have when participating in interrealm battles.

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 Post subject: Re: Both Legs Pierced
PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 12:22 am 
Hero
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We play the "display" of pierced wounds the same. We simply count pierces and hacks towards limb death. Game is smoother and safer. There is no real good reason to be "alive" with two wounded limbs, it is just downright silly.

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 Post subject: Re: Both Legs Pierced
PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 12:46 pm 
Monkey
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I very much agree with Sir Angmarth on this. I haven't bothered any of the Monachium members with the pierced limbs rule, since it leads to all manner of stupid corner cases. Pierced armored limbs can still take two hits? One gone and one pierced leg means you can't show which one is still there? Does a buckler still work on a pierced arm? How can the opponent tell if a limb is pierced? It's a lot of complexity for little real gain.

Plus, it got my leg broken.

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 Post subject: Re: Both Legs Pierced
PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 8:07 am 
Brute
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I disagree.

For one, our pierce rules set Belegarth apart from other games. The UI group has a bunch of cross gamers and it's weird that they take pierced limbs has hacked... and they see the benefit of keeping the limb once I teach them the Bel rules for it. Yeah, it complicates things... but it makes for a more strategic game.

On that point, an astute fighter will use a pierced arm to block arrows and other missiles. It's great for blocking the line of sight an archer has in bridge battles and the like. Not saying anyone here is wrong for giving up when they have two pierced limbs... I'm just saying that when I was growing up in the game I was taught to take advantage of the rule and it makes it a more interesting sport for me.

Ask the people I pushed out of a circle in King of the Hill at Rhune Closer last year how effective a person with two pierced arms can be. Pretty sure my team won that fight because I collapsed an entire circle by just laying on it. And the people from gimped realms that don't play by that rule set were angry at me for it... because they didn't know the rules. Teach people the rules and they'll be better fighters and have better experience at events.

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 Post subject: Re: Both Legs Pierced
PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 6:27 pm 
Barbarian
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To play devils advocate it does make spears and glaives overpowered. Stabbing two legs in a line now kills Instead of just disabling.

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 Post subject: Re: Both Legs Pierced
PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 3:55 am 
Monkey
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There was a reason spears and other long weapons were a mainstay of armies for a long time. I find them underpowered in the current rules.

The "using a pierced arm to block arrows" is just cheesy.

I would suggest trying alternate piercing rules in a few large-scale battles at events and see how the difference feels.

-Hårdgrim of Monachium


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 Post subject: Re: Both Legs Pierced
PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 3:00 pm 
Brute
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Haardgrim wrote:

The "using a pierced arm to block arrows" is just cheesy.



Is that even legal?

I always sort of assumed that if an arrow traveled through a weapon that it hit, it would travel through a pierced arm as well. Its not specified in the rules, but yea...i would be called a dirty cheater on most of the fields i go to if i did that.


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 Post subject: Re: Both Legs Pierced
PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 3:12 pm 
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It's legal if you don't manipulate the arm. Same as getting stabbed again in a pierced limb.

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 Post subject: Re: Both Legs Pierced
PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 10:18 am 
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Haardgrim wrote:
I would suggest trying alternate piercing rules in a few large-scale battles at events and see how the difference feels.

-Hårdgrim of Monachium


We did play test this rule at an event here about a year or so ago. Alot of us went into the event with the thought that making piercing part of the total limb count was a great idea. After the event no one here felt the same. It became well over powered for someone to be able to basically machine gun a red (minus shield breaking) at someone from 8+ feet away.

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 Post subject: Re: Both Legs Pierced
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 8:21 am 
Ninja
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As someone who has switched over to primarily using a spear I am all for this change. As someone who sped the better part of a decade fighting sword board I think it is a bad way to go.

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