Mycenaean Boar Tusk Helmet

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Mycenaean Boar Tusk Helmet

Postby Cu_ » Tue Sep 20, 2011 9:29 pm

I'm thinking of putting together a Bronze Age Greek kit, and I think these things look dope as ****.

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Of course, I would certainly affix the tusk slivers onto a leather base thick enough to pass on its own. My only concern is that with the placement of the tusks, and the wool backing between the tusks and the leather, the leather itself will not be visible. Is this an objectionable violation of this guy?

3.7.2. Composite Armor must be identifiable as Armor by appearance.


I know the helmet wouldn't really be composite armor, as bone/ivory isn't armor grade, anyway. It just feels like I should ask this question before I dump money into it.
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Re: Mycenaean Boar Tusk Helmet

Postby Big King Jimmy » Wed Sep 21, 2011 12:08 am

I would say so. You'd look like you're wearing a helm not made of any armor material listed in the BoW, if I were arching, I'd assume if I shot you I'd be right in calling you dead. I'd say that's a good sign that your armor doesn't look like armor.
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Re: Mycenaean Boar Tusk Helmet

Postby Elebrim » Fri Sep 23, 2011 2:25 pm

I disagree. There is a lot of armor on the field that doesn't look obviously like armor (pocket brig immediately comes to mind), so making a helmet with non-traditional materials shouldn't be a big deal so long as it is thoroughly checked by the heralds at the event. They make the ultimate decision of whether or not to count it as armor, anyway. If you could design it in a way so as to accentuate the leather and make it more visible, this should help your case.
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Re: Mycenaean Boar Tusk Helmet

Postby Big King Jimmy » Fri Sep 23, 2011 3:23 pm

"This shouldn't pass and does, therefore this other things should too."

That, and the fact that most pocket brig isn't actually made with pockets and weapons checkers have no idea what thickness of leather they contain, are reasons why it should fail too.
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Re: Mycenaean Boar Tusk Helmet

Postby Brutus » Fri Sep 23, 2011 9:34 pm

There are reasons that the types of armor that are allowed are specifically enumerated in the BoW, and ease of checking is one of them. Imagine how complicated bone armor could become? What is the thickness that would be required? Are all bones created equal, or should there be a density requirement? How would you even test that? Is bone safe, or will it shatter from one good hit?

Our game is not 100% realistic, it is a simplified version of real combat. This frequently disappoints new players who want to do one specific thing that they can often find historical precedence for. Sadly, this game does not make the claim that EVERYTHING that was possible has some sort of in-game equivalence, only that there is equivalence to the most prevalent types of armor and weapons.

My advice: make a leather helm that looks like bone.
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Re: Mycenaean Boar Tusk Helmet

Postby Derian » Fri Sep 23, 2011 11:40 pm

Brutus has the right of it. While there's definitely precedent for it and you'll likely not find too much of a fuss put up trying to get this passed at events, I would be very surprised if an official rule were passed allowing bone armor.

That said, if you think you can make a good piece of armor using bone; please do so. Many weapons checkers would be happy to pass it for the day (or event) after examining it and discussing it with you if it's well constructed and aligned with the spirit of the rules, but even if not, you're still free to wear it solely to look rad.

Also: I'm moving this to Rules Discussion and Development as it's not a clear-cut rules question anymore and might benefit from some additional discussion.
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Re: Mycenaean Boar Tusk Helmet

Postby The Great Gigsby » Sat Sep 24, 2011 1:17 am

Derian, Brutus, did you catch the part where he said the tusks would be on a leather backing of sufficient width to pass as armor?
Cu_ wrote:Of course, I would certainly affix the tusk slivers onto a leather base thick enough to pass on its own.
The only rule that this helmet would infringe upon is another one of those beautifully ambiguously worded rules that leave it up to the discretion of the marshal.
3.3.5. The presence of Armor must be easily discernable to count as Armor.
I don't know how archers pick targets based on headgear (I don't arch and I have **** eyesight), so I don't know how unbalancing it would be, but I've seen far less discernible armor at events. Things like pocket brig, brigandine, chainmail under a tabard or jacket, are all kinds of armor that you can't really spot depending on the angle or how close you are but routinely make it on the field with little fuss.

I wouldn't have a problem with your tusk helmet. I would prefer to see more helmets (especially well made ones) on the field, than less.
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Re: Mycenaean Boar Tusk Helmet

Postby Derian » Sat Sep 24, 2011 2:02 am

Good call. I did catch that originally but forgot it for my second post.

In cases like that few weapons checkers would fail it. It would potentially cause problems with archers, but then again most archers I know don't even bother shooting at anyone who has anything on their face/head, armor or not, because there are so many open targets that it's better not to risk it.
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Re: Mycenaean Boar Tusk Helmet

Postby Cade » Sat Sep 24, 2011 7:41 am

I would pass it in a heartbeat provided it looked like its historical counterpart, and provided it would actually be armor.

Someone tying chicken bones to a hat and trying to tell me its armor...no. Actual bore tusk, or a good substitute affixed to 12oz leather? heck yea. Thats awesome.

We already allow masks and helms onto the field that aren't immediately identifiable as leather from a distance. I have a couple helms that look like they came from a party center rather than a leather shop and it doesn't confuse archers at all. I see no issues with this helm.
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Re: Mycenaean Boar Tusk Helmet

Postby Forkbeard » Sat Sep 24, 2011 8:01 am

Cool idea.
The thing is, teeth and bone are crappy materials. I just had to paint the teeth in my necklace(4 years old) to keep them from splintering apart. They were getting all gross and kept catching a pulling my chest hairs.
I feel you would be sad a couple years down the road.
You could easily(and alot more cheaply) get some really thick, like 16 oz leather and cut out your teeth shapes and carve them down into boar tusks. You can soak and shape them into exactly the pieces you need. Paint them whitey-yellow like teeth, them lace them together into your helemt.
If you do it right, it will look exactly the same, be completely legal and probly last ALOT longer.
I would do it this way, if I had to make one of these.
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