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 Post subject: Missile Weapons and Sufficient Force
PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 7:35 pm 
Brute
Brute
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Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 2:43 pm
Posts: 529
Location: Coralville, Iowa
Started Fighting: 18 Apr 1996
Realm: Stal Dalen
Unit: HORDE
The Book of War wrote:
1. Adjudication
1.3. The target of an attack makes combat hit determinations.

3.2. Weapons
3.2.1. Weapons which strike with sufficient force can score a hit and/or Injury to the Target Area.

3.8. Missile Weapon Conventions
3.8.4. A missile Weapon is considered to have hit if there is significant deflection of the missile head (>30 degrees). Once the missile head has significantly deflected off a target, the missile is rendered harmless.
3.8.5. As an exception to rule 1.3, an archer who attacks with an arrow may determine and call a combat hit when attacking with such a Weapon.


During my last battle practice, I received a complaint from a player about someone calling light on a rock. Rocks currently are rare on our field, and the rock in question was exceptionally light, so I chalked it up to confusion. But before I called the whole field in for an explanation of an obscure rule, I wanted to ensure I'd be giving the the correct information and so got out my BoW and scanned the applicable rules. To my surprise, I came away more confused than when I started.

I've posted the rules in question above. My instinct, originally, was to say that you cannot call light on missiles (at least not rocks and arrows, javelins are a little gray). It would seem, as currently written, that the Book of War disagrees with that instinct. It seems that even arrows are subject to the sufficient force rule as the exception for arrows only apples to rule 1.3.

So, I'm posting here to ask for clarification on sufficient force as applies to missile weapons. Can I call light on a javelin? A rock?! An arrow?!? Because I've got to say, I don't like the idea of people building 'head only missiles' so that they pass our sufficient force rules. I know where my experience makes me want to draw the lines on this... but I want to know what everyone else thinks.

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Horde marched to the field. Their leaders up in the air, adorned in furs and animal skulls. Women from camps chained underneath the platforms, fire-breathers & flag bearers ran about before of the procession. I have never in my life felt closer to being in a fantasy world. I will always remember that for a moment I thought so many things were possible.


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 Post subject: Re: Missile Weapons and Sufficient Force
PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 11:12 pm 
Belegarth President
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Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2005 3:27 pm
Posts: 2001
Location: Irvine, CA
Started Fighting: 31 Aug 2001
Realm: Marshal of Anduril
Unit: Wardens
Favorite Fighting Styles: Sword & Board, Extreme Taunting
The deflection rule is the determinant for missile weapons 3.8.4. You still decide whether the head of a javelin or rock has hit you, but sufficient force is for melee weapons only. You can still say for either of these missile weapons that it didn't deflect or that the haft hit you, so you are still the determinant. However, there is not a precedent for calling missile weapons light, nor should there be...ever. Not particularly clear from the wording, but the Missile weapons are under a separate category from the melee conventions.

TLDR: You are the determinant, but sufficient force doesn't come into play because 3.2.1 is for melee hits only. Use 3.8.4 is for missile hits determination.

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 Post subject: Re: Missile Weapons and Sufficient Force
PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 7:16 am 
Become One With the Wind
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Location: Cedar Falls, IA
Started Fighting: 01 Apr 2001
Realm: Nan Belegorn
Unit: Hellhammer
Favorite Fighting Styles: Sword & Board
Backing up Ana here. No calling light on missile weapons.

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 Post subject: Re: Missile Weapons and Sufficient Force
PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 7:59 am 
Brute
Brute
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Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 2:43 pm
Posts: 529
Location: Coralville, Iowa
Started Fighting: 18 Apr 1996
Realm: Stal Dalen
Unit: HORDE
Anastasia of Chamonix wrote:
Not particularly clear from the wording, but the Missile weapons are under a separate category from the melee conventions.


May I recommend moving 3.2.1 into 3.7 [Melee Conventions]. It seems the easiest way to make this clarification in our rule set. Or, alternatively, adding wording to 3.8.4 stating that it is an exception to 3.2.1 could serve as clarification.

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Anastasia of Chamonix wrote:
Horde marched to the field. Their leaders up in the air, adorned in furs and animal skulls. Women from camps chained underneath the platforms, fire-breathers & flag bearers ran about before of the procession. I have never in my life felt closer to being in a fantasy world. I will always remember that for a moment I thought so many things were possible.


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