Just because I haven't posted something in a while, I thought I would drop in and see what people think.

There are really only 2 kinds of weapons in our game. 1 handed, and 2 handed.

Armor may not be penetrated by a 1 handed stab. Any weapon (that passes for stabbing) wielded with 2 hands penetrates armor.
Shields may not be damaged by a 1 handed weapon, or a 2 handed weapon unless it is swung 2 handed. Any weapon (that qualifies for a 2 handed swinging weapon) when wielded with 2 hands will penetrate armor and damage shields.

Missiles always penetrate armor and never damage shields.

I have thought about the 1 handed stabbing rule for a long time and think that we should probably just move to a system that makes a "hit is a hit is a hit" whether or not it is swung or thrust. If a hit lands solid from a thrust then so be it, I honestly don't think it breaks the game, but I'm curious as to what others think.

If we went to that then our rule set would be even simpler. Just a thought.

A 1 hand weapon can cause 1 level of damage.
A 2 handed weapon can cause 2 levels of damage.
Armor prevents 1 level of damage.
All stabs or a slashes must have sufficient force.
Shields may not be damaged by a 1 handed weapon, or a 2 handed weapon unless it is swung 2 handed. Any weapon (that qualifies for a 2 handed swinging weapon) when wielded with 2 hands will do 2 levels of damage to armor and 1 level of damage to shields.

Missiles always penetrate armor and never damage shields.

Just an afternoon thought to chew on.

The last few years Mel has been using something similar to this (spears do class 1 damage basically). I think it would be a hard sell with people complaining about spears being to strong as things are. I don't dislike the idea, I just don't know if it could be sold right now.

I'd be ok with simplifying it like this, but I'm not sure I'd want spears to be able to break shields.

Edit: unless I'm misreading? I re-read, and I'm still unclear if that's the intent.

You should just go ahead and make arrows damage (rather than penetrate) armor, while you're at it.

Brutus quoted the relevant part. Spears couldn't break shields because you can't swing them.

Gotcha. I'm all for this, then.

i like it too. it would certainly remove some confusion from the bow for new people.

I personally like having piercing damage being a separate thing. If a spearman or archer tags my legs before I can even engage with the line, I still get a chance to fight. At events like Okfest where it could be 5-10m before the next fight starts, I think that's important in preventing archers and spearmen from having too large of an impact.

For my new guys, I tell them to just take piercing as blue damage while they're learning, to keep things simple.

Spears are already one of the most powerful things out there when uesed correctly. I don't want them getting any better without a way to balance. One good spearman changes the dynamic of every fight they're in without the ability to double leg people to death. No one person should have that much power.

You should play-test this, Par. My realm has been playing with these rules since it was founded (2005). The result: no full-time spearmen. But because even projectiles are blocked by armor, in addition to stabs, we have a LOT of armor. Even our newest fighters get it pretty soon, because it's so powerful.

Brutus,

I have two of, arguably, the best spearmen in Bel in my realm. Rahvin and Rem already rack up a positive KDR in almost every fight their in. If they had the ability to quick double leg people to death I imagine that'd skyrocket.

Also, we use an EVERYTHING is blue damage for the ren faire we host fighting for in Octoer of every year. With a 6 ft spear I routinely destroy by double tapping a thigh or arm from the side, and I am simply dismal with a spear. And this isn't just new fighters, its people who've been in the game 5+years.

I get that it works for ya'll. But in the meta that's developing around spears the last thing I want to do is give them more oomph. The game is already fairly balanced, and I don't think new people have difficulty getting our combat rules as is.

balance it out by making it so reds break polearms?

In the Finnish fighting system, it's truly a bit is a hit is a hit. No two-handed rules, not stabbing rules, no missile rules. Exceedingly simply, but has led to a combat totally dominated by large shields and really long spears. I believe the red rules are the most important, as they balance the shields. I would not drop them. The one-handed stab vs. armor is stopping cheesy spear shots in particular, good to have. We've dropped the stabbing-wounds rule already, it was too complex compared to how often it made a difference - once you've lost two limbs, you're next to useless anyway.

-Hårdgrim of Numenor/Perial of Monachium