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 Post subject: Simplifying Combat
PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2016 4:16 pm 
Hero
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Location: St. Louis, MO
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Realm: Arnor
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Favorite Fighting Styles: Crushing my opponent until they relent.
Just because I haven't posted something in a while, I thought I would drop in and see what people think.

There are really only 2 kinds of weapons in our game. 1 handed, and 2 handed.

Armor may not be penetrated by a 1 handed stab. Any weapon (that passes for stabbing) wielded with 2 hands penetrates armor.
Shields may not be damaged by a 1 handed weapon, or a 2 handed weapon unless it is swung 2 handed. Any weapon (that qualifies for a 2 handed swinging weapon) when wielded with 2 hands will penetrate armor and damage shields.

Missiles always penetrate armor and never damage shields.

I have thought about the 1 handed stabbing rule for a long time and think that we should probably just move to a system that makes a "hit is a hit is a hit" whether or not it is swung or thrust. If a hit lands solid from a thrust then so be it, I honestly don't think it breaks the game, but I'm curious as to what others think.

If we went to that then our rule set would be even simpler. Just a thought.

A 1 hand weapon can cause 1 level of damage.
A 2 handed weapon can cause 2 levels of damage.
Armor prevents 1 level of damage.
All stabs or a slashes must have sufficient force.
Shields may not be damaged by a 1 handed weapon, or a 2 handed weapon unless it is swung 2 handed. Any weapon (that qualifies for a 2 handed swinging weapon) when wielded with 2 hands will do 2 levels of damage to armor and 1 level of damage to shields.

Missiles always penetrate armor and never damage shields.

Just an afternoon thought to chew on.

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 Post subject: Re: Simplifying Combat
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2016 10:01 am 
Ninja
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Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 8:58 pm
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Location: Nan Belegorn
Started Fighting: 12 Mar 2003
Realm: Nan Belegorn
Unit: Blood Vally Horde
Favorite Fighting Styles: Whatever kills the other person
The last few years Mel has been using something similar to this (spears do class 1 damage basically). I think it would be a hard sell with people complaining about spears being to strong as things are. I don't dislike the idea, I just don't know if it could be sold right now.

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 Post subject: Re: Simplifying Combat
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2016 2:22 pm 
Become One With the Wind
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Location: Cedar Falls, IA
Started Fighting: 01 Apr 2001
Realm: Nan Belegorn
Unit: Hellhammer
Favorite Fighting Styles: Sword & Board
I'd be ok with simplifying it like this, but I'm not sure I'd want spears to be able to break shields.

Edit: unless I'm misreading? I re-read, and I'm still unclear if that's the intent.

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 Post subject: Re: Simplifying Combat
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2016 3:07 pm 
Only .3% Short Of Perfect
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Location: Alton, IL
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Quote:
or a 2 handed weapon unless it is swung 2 handed


You should just go ahead and make arrows damage (rather than penetrate) armor, while you're at it.


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 Post subject: Re: Simplifying Combat
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2016 3:53 pm 
Hero
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Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2003 2:13 pm
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Location: St. Louis, MO
Started Fighting: 01 Mar 1998
Realm: Arnor
Unit: Moredain
Favorite Fighting Styles: Crushing my opponent until they relent.
Brutus quoted the relevant part. Spears couldn't break shields because you can't swing them.

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Knight of Numenor
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 Post subject: Re: Simplifying Combat
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2016 5:09 pm 
Become One With the Wind
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Location: Cedar Falls, IA
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Favorite Fighting Styles: Sword & Board
Gotcha. I'm all for this, then.

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 Post subject: Re: Simplifying Combat
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2016 6:38 pm 
Veteran
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Realm: Numenor
Unit: Knights of Numenor
i like it too. it would certainly remove some confusion from the bow for new people.

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 Post subject: Re: Simplifying Combat
PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2016 10:55 am 
Gladiator
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Location: Carbondale, IL
Started Fighting: 02 Apr 2006
Realm: Kingdom of Knightfall
Favorite Fighting Styles: Red Sword - S&B - Florentine
I personally like having piercing damage being a separate thing. If a spearman or archer tags my legs before I can even engage with the line, I still get a chance to fight. At events like Okfest where it could be 5-10m before the next fight starts, I think that's important in preventing archers and spearmen from having too large of an impact.

For my new guys, I tell them to just take piercing as blue damage while they're learning, to keep things simple.

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 Post subject: Re: Simplifying Combat
PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2016 1:04 am 
Grizzled Veteran
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Location: Rath(Boise)
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Favorite Fighting Styles: Sword and Sheild
Spears are already one of the most powerful things out there when uesed correctly. I don't want them getting any better without a way to balance. One good spearman changes the dynamic of every fight they're in without the ability to double leg people to death. No one person should have that much power.

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 Post subject: Re: Simplifying Combat
PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2016 8:23 am 
Only .3% Short Of Perfect
Only .3% Short Of Perfect
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You should play-test this, Par. My realm has been playing with these rules since it was founded (2005). The result: no full-time spearmen. But because even projectiles are blocked by armor, in addition to stabs, we have a LOT of armor. Even our newest fighters get it pretty soon, because it's so powerful.


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 Post subject: Re: Simplifying Combat
PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2016 10:31 am 
Grizzled Veteran
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Location: Rath(Boise)
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Favorite Fighting Styles: Sword and Sheild
Brutus,

I have two of, arguably, the best spearmen in Bel in my realm. Rahvin and Rem already rack up a positive KDR in almost every fight their in. If they had the ability to quick double leg people to death I imagine that'd skyrocket.

Also, we use an EVERYTHING is blue damage for the ren faire we host fighting for in Octoer of every year. With a 6 ft spear I routinely destroy by double tapping a thigh or arm from the side, and I am simply dismal with a spear. And this isn't just new fighters, its people who've been in the game 5+years.

I get that it works for ya'll. But in the meta that's developing around spears the last thing I want to do is give them more oomph. The game is already fairly balanced, and I don't think new people have difficulty getting our combat rules as is.

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Brotherhood of the Falcon
Order of the Gilded Owl
Go Team 4!
Member of the Church of Daraith
Humility: Its pretty much the only thing I'm NOT good at.
Derian wrote:
Well, ****. Par is right.


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 Post subject: Re: Simplifying Combat
PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 6:25 pm 
Forum Gordon Ramsay
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balance it out by making it so reds break polearms?

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 Post subject: Re: Simplifying Combat
PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 11:57 am 
Monkey
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In the Finnish fighting system, it's truly a bit is a hit is a hit. No two-handed rules, not stabbing rules, no missile rules. Exceedingly simply, but has led to a combat totally dominated by large shields and really long spears. I believe the red rules are the most important, as they balance the shields. I would not drop them. The one-handed stab vs. armor is stopping cheesy spear shots in particular, good to have. We've dropped the stabbing-wounds rule already, it was too complex compared to how often it made a difference - once you've lost two limbs, you're next to useless anyway.

-HÃ¥rdgrim of Numenor/Perial of Monachium


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