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 Post subject: Sword and Board VS. a Red weapon and/or glaives
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 11:38 am 
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I was wondering if I could get some tips for fighting againist red weapons like greatswords and things (kyrian gave me a couple tips that seem to work pretty well) and I'd like to here some other tips for fighting against them.

also, could I get some tips for fighting against glaives with a sword and board? Because they blend the strengths of spears and reds and I'm having a hard time figuring out how to fight them; I've gathered that you need to rush them and get inside their reach like you would a spear, but I always seem to get killed either by the glaive itself, or the guy's side-arm.


Thanks,
Digoza


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 12:54 pm 
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Favorite Fighting Styles: Sword and Board
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Fighting against Red Weapons:
I first look to see who I am fighting and what types of moves they normally do. Since you normally fight the same people in your realm, learning someone's overall fighting style isnt' that hard. In doing so, see what kind of moves do they do, do they spin in and out a lot? Are they ranged red-swordsman (They get in, get a shield hit then back out?) Do they mostly go for legs?
Then based on that knowledge employ your attack moves with the anticipation of what they are planning. Lets take spin moves for example. (A red swordsman attackes, one way, then uses the momentum for a 360 degree turn or more to hit your side. ) In that instance, get your shield in the right guard position, and wait for his stance to get in the prepatory style then strike. Hopefully, you can step in an nail them in the back.
One other important thing that most red fighters will tell you is that you should try not to get that first hit on your shield unless it is necessary. When you have that hit, it actually can do 2 things. 1) Get you to charge so you don't risk the second hit; or 2) Get you to defend your shield while they go for a leg or something. To counter these, get more sword blocks in. (Gloves recommended.) It may sting, but you would be suprised how hand-on-weapon blocking increases your survivalbilty across the board.

Spears.
As for spears, If you die to someone with a side arm (I'm guessing Obryn is making your life difficult ;) ) Then try a feint. Get into a position and feint that makes your attack believe that you are going to rush. Mostly they will switch the spear to one hand, then get their weapon at the ready. If you do this and are not inside, then you don't have to rapidly close in, but you can pin the spear with your leg off to the side, then engage the spearman. They've lost their block with the spear, and they can't get the over the back shot as you almost run them down.
Don't hestitate for too long though, or else they will capitalize on your slowness.

Glaives
A little different but really the same as a spear, except to gain the momentum they need to swing, they will either have to keep spinning, or backpedal really fast. Keep that in mind when you close in on them. (Greaves are also especially imprortant.) Also, if you use a decently weighted sword, use it to swipe the glaive away before rushing in. You can use a good counter swing to bring the sword back unto the glaiver before they can launch their next attack.

Hope this helps.
Borric

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 12:55 pm 
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Favorite Fighting Styles: Sword and Board
Spear and Glaive
Archery
Fighting against Red Weapons:
I first look to see who I am fighting and what types of moves they normally do. Since you normally fight the same people in your realm, learning someone's overall fighting style isnt' that hard. In doing so, see what kind of moves do they do, do they spin in and out a lot? Are they ranged red-swordsman (They get in, get a shield hit then back out?) Do they mostly go for legs?
Then based on that knowledge employ your attack moves with the anticipation of what they are planning. Lets take spin moves for example. (A red swordsman attackes, one way, then uses the momentum for a 360 degree turn or more to hit your side. ) In that instance, get your shield in the right guard position, and wait for his stance to get in the prepatory style then strike. Hopefully, you can step in an nail them in the back.
One other important thing that most red fighters will tell you is that you should try not to get that first hit on your shield unless it is necessary. When you have that hit, it actually can do 2 things. 1) Get you to charge so you don't risk the second hit; or 2) Get you to defend your shield while they go for a leg or something. To counter these, get more sword blocks in. (Gloves recommended.) It may sting, but you would be suprised how hand-on-weapon blocking increases your survivalbilty across the board.

Spears.
As for spears, If you die to someone with a side arm (I'm guessing Obryn is making your life difficult ;) ) Then try a feint. Get into a position and feint that makes your attack believe that you are going to rush. Mostly they will switch the spear to one hand, then get their weapon at the ready. If you do this and are not inside, then you don't have to rapidly close in, but you can pin the spear with your leg off to the side, then engage the spearman. They've lost their block with the spear, and they can't get the over the back shot as you almost run them down.
Don't hestitate for too long though, or else they will capitalize on your slowness.

Glaives
A little different but really the same as a spear, except to gain the momentum they need to swing, they will either have to keep spinning, or backpedal really fast. Keep that in mind when you close in on them. (Greaves are also especially imprortant.) Also, if you use a decently weighted sword, use it to swipe the glaive away before rushing in. You can use a good counter swing to bring the sword back unto the glaiver before they can launch their next attack.

Hope this helps.
Borric

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 1:31 pm 
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See me on sunday, Digoza. I'll have my glaive with me.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 5:52 pm 
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Alright, thanks; and cyric, I'll be sure to ask you on Sunday when I get there, I may be a little bit late though (like around 2:30 or 3).


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 6:27 pm 
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dont worry, depending on traffic from Chicago Cyric might be late too. Cyric does know what he is talking about when he is using a glaive, I have never killed him, but I think that I might have armed him once, maybe.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 9:21 am 
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The key thing to remember when moving against red class or spear type weapons it that you have the advantage of speed. An excellent weilder of either just cannot recover as fast as someone proficient in sword and board combat. Work on your coordination, speed and timing, and these weapon class may be a bit easier to handle.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 9:50 am 
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Isnt blocking with your hand just a bit hokey? That seems like just taking advantage of the rules.

I fight with a red and usually if they are using a round shield I go for the legs, if they are using a teardrop then its harder. Otherwise i try to go from the arm when they extend it to attack. So if you can keep your arm behind your shield then that is very effective.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 11:56 am 
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Glorfindel, it is a much more solid block with hand-on-weapon. It is also a more painful block (hence the gloves). Think of it as something with the trade off built in. We have a couple of hard hitters in our realm, and that makes block placement very important. The ideal is to get the block about an inch above your hand while your wrists are locked so a two handed swing can't power through the block (and so your hand isn't twitching until two days after practice) but that doesn't always happen, or at least I'm not good enough to pull it off all the time. I put hand guards on every weapon I can because I don't like hand shots. And even then when I fight florentine there are some red shots I can only block with both swords, directly on the hand guard.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 1:49 pm 
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punch blocks aka hand-on-weapon blocks are an essential and effective
form of defense glorfindel, hokey... maybe. but this is a game remember. in any form of actually sword fighting with live steel that i have studied or been taught hands wrists fingers and head are the main targets but this is a game with foam weapons that we play and the punch block is one of the advanteges of this. punch blocking gives you a more solid defense with less give allowing you to parry much more effectiveley. it allows you to get around the weapon much faster and with great ease other than the strain on your hands but thats why most fighters that do this wear gloves. i think that this form of defense is a must when fighting reds because it turns offensive so fast, when you punch block a red they have to recover but your already over the top of their weapon with a simple turn of the wrist and you should have the speed advantege already so just dont be scared and you should win with speed and solid defense
my favorite style is single blue and i fight reds often and this is my favortie tactic

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 11:17 am 
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Yup its a solid strategy in the game of belegarth. I also have been trained in swords though, escrima mostly and I refuse to dilute my training. So you wont find me punch blocking with my hand :p


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 1:07 pm 
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Location: i was thinkin about this what is time and space fuck..head explosion
you ask about shield work ok

spear: you rush them and hit them if they have a side arm after rush them throw your shield at the side arm and throw a cross over with your weapon arm essentially making a x this is uncomfortable but easy and usefull

glaive same as a spear except you might have to take one red strike on your shield

red weapon way easy wait for them to string as soon as they move rush close distance again you might have to take one shot on the shield but they die

oh and if any spear tries low shots for legs if your shield is big ehough slam the edge down and trap it and if you use a round or tear drop or sumthin then step on that sum'* for all it's worth cause hey they put it down there

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2006 11:31 am 
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Not to mention the ever-effective shield bash technique. Smack the tip of their weapon outta the way, close the range, and give em a good lifting. That should not only momentarily stun them, but hopefully disable their ablility to recover their side-arm.

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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2006 10:53 pm 
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the punch blocking technique is gold for fighting reds. I can remember many times people defeating me (especially florentiners) using punch blocks. I would also highly suggest strengthing your hands and wearing some kind of padded gloves. In a scenario the other day, I was fighting a flourentine fighter and I was able to knock one of his weapons out of his hand and the other hand I punished the other until he died. Hands are huge targets for me when I fight red (which I do all the time) so you're definitely gonna want to protect those.

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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2006 9:57 am 
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you know what I hate about fighting people with shields?

...charges...

I find it harder to get off good red shots when they're all close like that.. ..

...so unless your local red fighter can run backwards as fast as you run forwards....you run them over...like a dump truck...

yay dump truck!


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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2006 10:19 pm 
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that would be grease, he can run backwards quite fast. A lot faster than most of our guys can run forwards. But yeah, charge like a tank and don't stop for nothin, not even naked women. That is how I get beat everytime, when the shieldman charges, I go down fast. The End.

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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2006 11:30 pm 
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hey red users! Go buy a broom and sweep the floor for a few days then use that while backpedling.

You will find that if you sweep at the weapon side while they rush you wil score a hit on either:
*Thier sheild
*Thier Leg/Body
*Thier weapon

If you swing hard enough it will move the weapon or sheild enough to get a 2nd swing in or for you to change to your 2nd. Also when the sheild man swings watch his/her shoulder because the direction of the shoulder will tell you where the shot is going so you can block the shot with the blade or haft (your tip still pointed down from a leg sweep)and counter with another leg sweep. That one will either break the sheild or kill/gimp the sheild man.

What I do is use a sheild on my back that way they sheild man has to aim for my belly to get a kill and so that I have control of how fast I have to back pedel. If I wanted I could stop and sheild check the fighter and the guy/girl won't be able to score a hit on me.

another fun thing to do is side step into the sheild. as the guy/girl comes at you, you side step towards the sheild side clsoe to the last minute and spin a red into the sheild. IE Gravish charges me. I pull my glaive in close and side step to my right as he gets within a few feet and spin to my right, showing my back, but putting the glaive on course with the sheild.

If they waited untill you made the first move, IE a sheild strike (ussualy a downward strike because it will always hit something) then you only need
a single good hit to make the fighter stop and reconsider.

And ALWAYS have a 2nd and 3rd weapon ready. I have a sword, dagger and rock(s) that I can pull at a moments knowtice in case someone wants to grapple me. That way I can ditch one weapon for the other, IE someone rushes me and goes to grab my sword, in a flash I can toss a rock at thier head or stab the arm with the dagger, or while being grappled I can drop the dagger or let the other person take the dagger while I use the sword or rock to finish the person. (and if they are wearing a helm then they should not be grapling)

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 1:01 pm 
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Borric wrote:
Glaives
A little different but really the same as a spear, except to gain the momentum they need to swing, they will either have to keep spinning, or backpedal really fast. Keep that in mind when you close in on them. (Greaves are also especially imprortant.) Also, if you use a decently weighted sword, use it to swipe the glaive away before rushing in. You can use a good counter swing to bring the sword back unto the glaiver before they can launch their next attack.

Hope this helps.
Borric


why are greaves important? red shots go through armour and two handed stabs go through armour.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 1:28 pm 
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I think the grieves come in play when you get in too close for a glaive swing and the opponent may have a back up weapon, they 'll proabaly swing at your legs to stop your charge, but with grieves that'll fail. :devil: MWAHAHAHAHA! (how come evil laughs are always in caps?)

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 2:34 pm 
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or you could block it with you sheild and beat them down

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 3:05 pm 
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thats true

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 2:00 am 
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greaves also help against those pesky polearm fighters who like to the one handed thrust or "pool cue" shot with their glaive in order to get more range. Often times they go for legs (best limb to take out for red/glaive/spear users) with this shot and it will be thwarted if you have greaves on.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 8:12 pm 
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yes, but in the interest of skill, it would be better to activley block the shots

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 12:55 am 
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I usually let them take one swing and miss most of the time then rush straight in and swing fast and hard!!!

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 10:15 am 
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the best technique for using against red fighters is to wait till they're about to swing, when they do, push in close to them. Chances are, if you get in close enough, their shot won't have enough momentum or power to even be considered a red, and even if it is, they can only get one red shot off on you.

Remember, if someone is fighting with a long green or a red, they are always going to want to keep you at bay, because that is where they are most effective. It will also keep you from reaching them.
However, as I said, If you are able to push into their "personal space", you take away their advantage of reach, and you have them. Just make * sure that you start hitting right away as to keep them away from grabbing a back-up weapon.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 10:50 am 
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I find that the easiest way to fight red is to parry their weapon into the ground. While their weapon is on the ground you can close distance very quickly. When you close distance you need to stay close to the weapon too, that way there is no way they can get enough power for a red, maybe not even enough power to count as a hit period.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 11:21 pm 
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Sorry to be a zombie thread re-animator but I love glaive and noticed something that hadn't been said here.

The biggest advantage of long red weapons is range. If you can dupe an opponent with a longer range to swing while you are outside his range, your charge and the following attack attack become three times easier.

If the momentum of a swing is stopped, either by hitting an opponent's body or hitting his block, the long red weapon wielder has a much easier time going to either a block or a second attack that if he hit nothing but air. Rush forward then suddenly stop, stomp your foot or otherwise get him to swing early then pull your shield back and let the attack hit air and go past you before resuming your charge.

If you are inside his range, the best time to charge is while the red weapon is swinging at you. Red weapons, particularly big red weapons, do not quickly change direction so throw out your shield/sword/whatever in the path of the oncoming attack and concentrate on killing the guy before he can change direction to block.

Before somebody tries this on me, let me warn you that the biggest advantage of a short red weapon isn't range. Its speed. A weapon in two hands is almost always faster than the same size weapon in one hand.

It makes a big difference to both the attacker and the defender if the glaive is eight feet long or five and a half.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 6:31 pm 
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Melannen wrote:
that would be grease, he can run backwards quite fast. A lot faster than most of our guys can run forwards. But yeah, charge like a tank and don't stop for nothin, not even naked women. That is how I get beat everytime, when the shieldman charges, I go down fast. The End.

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