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 Post subject: Polearm Work
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 3:41 pm 
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I heard there are some godly spear and gliave users out there and I would like to get some advice, cool tricks, etc.

Stories are cool too. :devil:


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 7:35 pm 
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See if you can't corner Finn at an event; he's pretty good with a spear, but doesn't get on here that much.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 7:55 pm 
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shrat is real good with a spear, he can kind of dance through a crowd and get in real nice jabs under the arm, or around a sheild, he is very quick and moves well, rarely do i see him get hit, particularly when he is using a shorter almost javelin spear

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Last edited by Dabbanoth on Fri Dec 08, 2006 8:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 8:07 pm 
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1) Get a buddy, preferably a buddy with a shield. A lone polearm or spear tends to be an arrow magnet. If I see a glaive or spear without shields around, they're often a priority target because of the damage they can do.

2) Learn how to backpedal quickly. A shieldman's best defense is often to get in past the head of the polearm or spear and close the distance as quickly as possible. Either that, or they're going to chuck a rock or javelin at you...

3) Carry a backup weapon either in your back hand or in a quickly-accessible location such as your belt or a scabbard. When a person charges and gets past the head of your weapon, you'll be prepared to deal with it.

4) Use a buckler or back shield. Self-explanatory.

5) Learn how to use the haft of the weapon as a shield. If a person charges, you let go with the back hand and have the backup weapon ready. Let the spear or glaive point downwards and use the haft to block shots. Practice defending against wraps, blows to your leg, and cross shots.

6) Practice turning around, running, and keeping the glaive or spear pointing towards your opponent. This will give you a chance to run quickly and keep the polearm in the way of the enemy's attacks.

7) Armor can be very helpful, especially for your arms and head. They tend to be hit magnets.

8 ) This is more of a philosophy than a tip but I like to think of a glaive as a spear with a red striking surface. Spear shots tend to be faster with a quicker recovery than red swings. Use the red when you need to but be wary of overcommitting to a swing.

9) Having a buddy with a spear or glaive can make short work of a shieldman. One can work the shield by either hitting it or pushing an edge while the other one takes advantage of the openings.

10) In a bridge battle, go low. Work the legs of the opposing line or move to the far edges and break shields. However, it can be VERY difficult to get good spear shots on the legs because they tend to slide off if the shin isn't hit squarely. Stay in the second rank and use the shield wall as cover.

11) Watch for missiles. They are one of the only things that can get to you outside of YOUR range.

12) As Dagganoth mentioned about Shrat, practice using your footwork in both avoiding attacks and in putting yourself in a good position to attack.

Hope this helps.

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Last edited by Kyrian on Sat Dec 09, 2006 7:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 8:18 pm 
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Pretty much gonna give a thumbs-up to what kyrian said.

When I use a spear, which isn't often, I prefer to use a glaive as a spear, and use the red portion sparingly, but its always nice to have.

And definitely gonna put an emphasis on the archer thing.

Get a helmet, and make sure that you watch out for archers (a helmet and a buckler will be some deterrent, as they will have to aim harder, and might be discouraged somewhat from taking the shot) Make sure that the shieldman(or men) you run around with are good at watching for arrows. There are several times where a polearm surrounded with shields is still an easy target because the shieldmen are not protecting him.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 9:47 pm 
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I use a spear quite a bit. Personally I prefer spears over glaives because, while glaives have versatility, they are too cumbersome for the finer points of spearwork. If you're just starting with a spear, I DO NOT recomend using a backup weapon at first. Yes you will be killed a bit more, but your Spearwork will get better MUCH faster. Having the backup weapon just makes you more likely to pull the spear up as an unbreakable shield, eliminating it's true advantage. After you become confident in your abilities with a spear, then a backup weapon is fine. I feel the same about bucklers and backshields. They just make you more reliant on your (cumbersome) gear rather than improving your field awareness and dodging abilities. Arrows don't travel THAT fast in this sport, if you can be aware enough to spot the archer aiming at you before he releases his shot, dodging isn't all that hard.

As far as actual moves, find a good sword and board guy and stay on his left. This gives you a good target area on at leats 80% of the fighters you encounter, as you will be facing their right (usually weapon-hand) side. Make sure and keep your spear constantly thrusting, forcing them to either block and open their shoulder for your partner, or not block and give you a nice opening for a gut shot.

if you end up on your own, fake high, go for the leg, and don't be too proud to run like hell.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 2:16 am 
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Kyrian's post is pretty much gold, and gives a very good overview on making long weapons work. As far as shrat's spear work goes he is very good but his style relies ENTIRELY (unless he has changed since chaos 9) on being mobile and blocking well. I use the spear almost exclusivly and very much enjoy working with a compotent sheildman.
On that note I have two tips to give and one rule to live by.
Tip one, half of your effectivness comes from the THREAT of attack and pushing your opponent. In that light keep your spear moving, if a sheildman has to activly block both you and teamate they will either not be able to attack or not be able to effectivly defend one of you.
Simply tip one is be a BULLY, the presence of a spear on most fields is enough to intimidate most fighters and cause the rest of the fighters to carefully consider the advantages of engaging.
Tip two, you have range USE IT. This can be implimented in many ways. My favorite use of range is attacking people 1-3 people down the enemies line, great for stagnant lines where people are indecicive. The other more obvious use is to lure poorly defended people into range and get them unaware, you would be amazed at how few people truly know how much range a good spearman can get. Great tactic against red users and other spearmen.
My rule to live by is if you get separated from your team and the heat is on... Warn your teammates and run like hell.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 11:05 am 
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Juicer, while I see where you're coming from about becoming overly dependent on the backup weapon and/or shield, there are times when a spear or glaive has to stand his ground and support the line. Some people really are better suited to supporting a line but others are much better (such as Shrat) using the hit-and-run style. However, backing up or stepping away from the line to dodge attacks could have dangerous consequences for the remaining fighters on the line. An opponent (or opponents) could use the the opportunity to punch through and capitalize on the opening. In situations like that, being able to stay on line and keep the line stable is probably the way to go.

P.S. Good points, Spriggot.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 2:06 pm 
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A few things I must add to Kyrian's post.

Kyrian wrote:
1) Get a buddy, preferably a buddy with a shield. A lone polearm or spear tends to be an arrow magnet. If I see a glaive or spear without shields around, they're often a priority target because of the damage they can do.


Use that to your advantage. Work with a fellow archer. Push an attack on the archer, even if there are 3-4 other fighters in front of the archer, and he/she will focus on you. when they focus on you your archer has time to take a shot.

Kyrian wrote:
2) Learn how to backpedal quickly. A shieldman's best defense is often to get in past the head of the polearm or spear and close the distance as quickly as possible. Either that, or they're going to chuck a rock or javelin at you...

use this in combination with:
Kyrian wrote:
5) Learn how to use the haft of the weapon as a shield. If a person charges, you let go with the back hand and have the backup weapon ready. Let the spear or glaive point downwards and use the haft to block shots. Practice defending against wraps, blows to your leg, and cross shots.


Also I wear a back shield so that way wrap shots to my back are pointless. If you keep the haft tucked in close then body shots are few.

With a Glaive you can leg sweep while back pedeling. A sweep to the weapon side will take a rusher's leg 90% of the time.

Kyrian wrote:
3) Carry a backup weapon either in your back hand or in a quickly-accessible location such as your belt or a scabbard. When a person charges and gets past the head of your weapon, you'll be prepared to deal with it.


I have a dagger that hangs from my neck or the back shield's strap. When someone rushes I back step long enough to let go with one hand. Then you stop and spring forward at the rusher. That will catch them off gaurd and most won't see the dagger untill you are on top of them.

Kyrian wrote:
8 ) This is more of a philosophy than a tip but I like to think of a glaive as a spear with a red striking surface. Spear shots tend to be faster with a quicker recovery than red swings. Use the red when you need to but be wary of overcommitting to a swing.


I teach this to any who want to learn glaive. It is a spear first. Red second. If you can't stab, then swing, but go for a short powerful swing. Same action as using a broom. Swing for weapon sides first, then shield sides to push the shield into the fighter's way, then a downward strike, very rare however seeing how most will duck into the haft.

Kyrian wrote:
11) Watch for missiles. They are one of the only things that can get to you outside of YOUR range.


That is the 3rd law of a ranged weapon. Keep your eyes on the archers, then other poles, then javs/rocks.

1st is be safe
2nd is have fun



Also on a side note I learned how to spear fight as a hit and run style. The only line fighting exp I have is from chaos, and the spear wall I was in a sca boffer group.

That is one thing I havn't seen much in belegarth is a spear wall.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 3:59 pm 
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Kyrian, I wasn't referring to actual event style field tactics. I was giving pointers to someone first picking up and learning a spear. Your list is definately perfect for a polearm at an event, but If you practice without the extra things, once you have them you are even more dangerous. Similar to two sword and board guys just starting. Say one starts out wearing full armor and the other starts out with none. Then, a year later, they both go to their first event and take part in the tank tourney. Given that they both had an equal amount of practice time, the guy who got used to one hit killing him, and learning to dodge and block better because of it, will usually prevail once he has armor on because he isn't as reliant on it.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 4:12 pm 
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Juicer,

That makes a lot of sense now and I realize that that was the same experience I had when fighting florentine. When I first learned how to fight with two weapons, I used a buckler and really came to depend on it. Back in the day, we treated bucklers as metal and unbreakable by red weapons (But that's a story for another day). When I fought florentine in Amtgard, I didn't use a buckler but still had those reactions in my muscle memory. It took me a long time to learn how not to rely on the buckler to protect me (I lost my left arm a lot) and to use my swords as well as footwork to stay alive.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 5:39 pm 
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A couple notes on teamwork. In my experience, the key to small-team spearfighting (2 on 2, 3 on 3, etc.) is concentrating attacks and being reay for quick openings. One on one, it's easy for a shield to block a spear - all you have to do is cover your torso and mind your shins. That's why a spearman won't get too far on an opposing shieldman if his own partner doesn't help out and make attacks. However, if you keep up a constant, hammering attack on a shieldman, even if they're all just going into his shield, it'll force him into a very static defense, leaving openings for your partner. On the flip side, whenever your partner makes an attack, look for his target to briefly open up to you as their forced to block your partner's shot. These openings tend to be very brief, but if you watch for them they're fairly predictable and you can start getting in fast shots to the gut the second they move their shield.

Of course, if the teams are equal sized you have to spend some quality time with all of your enemies, even if the one facing your shieldman is your primary focus. Personally, particularly when I'm directly threatened, I'd say I send 80% of my shots at the guy in front of me, mostly to keep him back and out of action, while I wait for his partner to slip up and leave me an opening when he starts thinking that he's only fighting my partner.

Just because you're using a spear doesn't mean you can't help defend your partner as well, by the way. Spears can be great defense against javelins and other spears, and can work well against reds as well. They also have a huge intimidation factor, which is a lifesaver when you're significantly outnumbered (just never stop threatening!), and last but not least you can always have fun pushing people around with them or blocking their path.

All of that applies to line fighting as well to some extent, though then it seems to me that the most important factors become battlefield awareness (archers and other spears) and attacking on the oblique (as Spriggot describes) and watching for people who don't think you're a threat. Hammering away at that poor guy in front of you helps a lot with that ;).

Finally, never give up when you're rushed, particularly if you've got a buckler and sidearm. As Kyrian describes, a downturned spear can be a great defense, and most importantly, shieldman tend to get sloppy when they rush a spear. They're so fixated on getting on you quickly that they'll often go too far (especially when you suddenly stop or take a step forward, as savetuba describes), and often all their shots are lazy hacks and wraps at your off side, which you can defend easily with spear and buckler, while wrapping them in the back with your sidearm.

(sorry for the thread necromancy, btw)

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:41 pm 
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What do you think about the naginata? In my Realm we use it like a glaive (seeing that it's the Japanese version of the glaive) but it counts as a blue not a red. I was just wondering what ya'll think about this.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:56 pm 
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Yoritomo wrote:
What do you think about the naginata? In my Realm we use it like a glaive (seeing that it's the Japanese version of the glaive) but it counts as a blue not a red. I was just wondering what ya'll think about this.


It depends on what you're using it for and how you like to fight. I could see a naginata being very useful in both the skirmish and line role but better suited for skirmishing. In line fighting, you're typically up against a bunch of shields in a line, so it's definitely nice to have the shield breaking capability.

If you're using it primarily as a spear with a striking surface, I'd imagine that it's probably faster and more maneuverable than a conventional glaive. Again, you are giving up the ability to break shields and go through armor with one swing.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 4:03 pm 
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Just remember this . . . as soon as you stop paying attention in all directions, there are half a dozen archers just slobbering to slap an arrow into you. ESPECIALLY in bridge battles, where, coincidentally, you are the most vulnerable. One bridge battle at last Octfest, I shot a spearmen, and then the next six people who all tried to pick up the spear to get it back into the fight.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 4:49 pm 
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I like naginata-like glaives (that is, relatively short bladed, one sided, ~6'-6'6", stabbing). In fact, they're the only glaives I can stand ;). They're definitely better suited to skirmishing than line fighting, though. In a line fight, reach is king and full length spears and glaives will take you down. Skirmishing, excessive reach can actually work against you, and the faster strike and recovery speed makes it much more workable on your own or in a chaotic environment.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 6:20 pm 
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I realize the importance of watching archers because I usually use those two weapons, the bow and the naginata (not in the same battle of course). The recovery time is definitely better with a naginata than with a full sized glaive but you?re right, not being able to break shields really stinks.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 3:59 am 
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Reading this thread drunk has made me realise the single most important thing any sheildman can do... Block arrows, so what if the arrow is not goingto kill you block it. Someone behind you will appreciate it.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 5:08 pm 
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I learned that one the hard way, I was a shieldman at yesteryear long ago and an archer fired a shot that zipped right past my shield and killed the archer behind me. I could have easily blocked that arrow. :(

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 9:48 pm 
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A naginata is a red weapon unl;ess it's under 48" or wieghs less than 24 oz.
If you're using it at practice, use it right.
Break sheilds.
Fb

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 7:32 am 
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I would rather use it that way... I'll try to convince the higher ups in my realm that it's a red... that would make me much happier


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 9:23 am 
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THere's no "convincing." The rules say it's a red, so it is. Take a tape measure and a scale to practice.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 7:06 am 
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Some observations I had when figthing in bridge battles with a 7' red/green glaive at a recent Aratari battle. One: I was serious archer bait, even with my buckler and helm I was getting targeted like crazy and getting killed virtually every time by an archer after I blocked the first few shots--usually when I *just* got into a red/green frenzy upfront.

One of the most fun things I did was block about 7-8 hard swings by a well-known glaive user into our front ranks. He uses a heavy and long glaive (very well), too long for me to exchange blows with at range so having nothing else to do, I kept sticking my glaive out and intercepting his red weapon shots to protect our shield users. He shot me a look of pure evil after a few times and moved away from me. Point is: look out for your shield users and intercept those polearms, spears included, just block them down hard all day long. Sort of like blocking incoming arrows even if they will not hit you, are looking out for your teammates.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 9:39 pm 
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Here's my 2 bits on Polearms.
I love 'em, as if you guys didn't know. I am a avid proponent of sidearms, helmets and bucklers.
Jucier is right about practicing without them. I do this. I really only use the buckler or the sidearm at practice for about a month before big wars. Or when I make something new, during the testing phase.
I think that you definetly need to be a bully, like that mean ol' Sprigot. He's right about spearmen, but when you add full armor and a glaive, your everybody on the other teams problem, so act like it. Yell at 'em, try to scare the hell out of them.
FInd a buddy and stick with them is always good advice, but make sure you have a partner who know what you're gonna do, some people run all over the place, some change from the right to the left of their shieldman constantly(me), some stand their ground and go nuts on the line, but all need a guy blocking arrows and **** for them. Be sure to let the guy guarding you know what you're likely to be doing.
If you're using a glaive, try to develope some off beat power swings for breaking shields. Most people are used to the usual shots and have funny little ways to block their shield against red hits. Finding new ways to angle your glaive into the line can break the whole thing open.
And last but not least, pay **** attention. Try as hard as you can not to get sucked into the sheild breaking frenzy at the front of the line. THis is what gets me shot 80% of the time in big fights. There is alot to be said for breaking 6 or 7 sheilds in a row and shattering a line, but keep your head and try to watch for arrows.
Experiment with your grip and the way you stand until you find a combination of moves that your can pull when alone against a shield guy that leaves you out of reach and thier shild broken at the end. Don't be afraid to get killed for a while coming up with new tricks.
And for gods sake, have fun.
FB

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 5:34 am 
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Thanks, guys. I'm glad I posted this.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 2:49 pm 
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I'm always a little bit surprised at how few pole-arms there are out on the field. In my opinion, they're very, very effective, and a few polearms make any unit 100% better. If the opposing force has no archers, I don't think there's anything more dangerous than a sword/board and spear combo.

Historically, I wonder if there were more pole arms on the battlefield than we see. :unsure:


Last edited by Hunter S. on Thu Feb 08, 2007 8:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 3:04 pm 
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Oh most def. And I'm pretty sure the main reason we don't see too many on our fields is people tend to get discouraged when they first try them. Because, fact is, they ARE archer bait. But if you see a group with 4 spearmen coming at you, with shieldmen who know how to protect and work with them, it's definately a major obstacle.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 4:11 pm 
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Quote:
Historically, I wonder if there were more pole arms on the battlefield than we see.


I would venture to say yes. Armored cavalry smashing into infantry (without archer support) was usually a dicey proposition for the infantry. The lances supported by both heavily armored man and heavy horse at full speed would punch through shield and man like they weren't there. Polearms and pikes gave the infantry a degree of protection from both horsemen and armor. Pikes were often longer than the lance (up to 18 feet in length) and could engage the horsemen before they could strike with their lances.

Polearms could smash armor, knock riders off, crush horses' legs, and basically reduce the effectiveness of armor. At its height, a person in plate armor was almost invulnerable to a single-handed sword other than some small openings in the armor such as the eye slots, armpit, and joints. However armor was still vulnerable to percussive effects such as from a mace, warhammer, axe, or pick. Now imagine an axe or hammer head on the end of a long stick. That added additional "punch" behind their blows. The added reach meant that the infantry didn't have to get "up close and personal" with the horseman.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 11:55 pm 
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also, whenever the pike was used against other massed infantry such as by the masadonians and the swiss it dominated them as long as the army was well drilled.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 9:23 am 
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A few things I havn't seen mentioned, but maby I have missed them:

#1 As a insnaly good spearman (Beergarde) once said, "the bigger the battle the longer the spear." Reasons why this work, during the big battles, reach is king, while when there are only like 20 people on the field, you need to be able to manuver better.

#2 The find a buddy principle works even better when you can get 2 spearman in a line working together, I've never seen more people go down faster in a line than when 2 spearman learn to work effectivly together. This being said, when you work together like that expect to have more people start targeting you. Ways to work together, one open the shield, one go for the person. CORNERS OF SHIELDS ARE EASY TO MOVE, just be aware what you are doing so you open the right side of the shield for your partner, be that another spearman or shieldman in your own line.

#3 If you don't have a really narrow spear or glaive, remember to use the backside to open shields on your pull back, if you miss, push it against a shield and pull it back so you can have an easier second shot.

#4 Sometimes you are a distraction so your line can work, don't feel bad if all you are doing is making an opposing shieldman concentrate on your spear rather than the 3 guys that can take shots at them. Make yourself known to the opposing shieldman they will be afraid if they start seeing shots being directed towards them.

P.S. There are some things that just don't make sense untill you see someone else do them, for this reason I'm going to list some highly effective individuals I have seen at events, talk to them before a battle starts, watch them fight, spar them and learn from them.

Beergarde
Obryn
Forkbeard
Snotbelly
Ferrin
Mordeth

Btw if you feel I missed you I'm sorry, dosn't mean you arn't a good polearm fighter, just means you were either 1. usually on my side, or 2. just at a wrong vantage point for me to see you.

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Last edited by Davit on Fri Feb 09, 2007 1:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 10:10 am 
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Oh yeah, a note on tipping shields with spears:

It's really, really, really easy to * people off with that move. I've seen so many people get pummeled in the face by their own shield when it gets tipped. They don't expect it at all.

Also, shield tipping generally exposes them to open gut shots and such--so its pretty easy to get the air knocked out of you.

Fighting two spears can be downright frustrating--because they will work you and it hurts!


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 10:59 am 
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Beergarde........
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is by far the most impressive spear fighter i've ever shared the field with.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 12:47 pm 
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and the sexiest


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 2:35 pm 
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and the sexiest


stay on topic will yea. :P

The reason we don't see more spears is that most spear men must work with some one else to effectively kill someone. Thus if you had 10 people using spears on one side, they could take on a force of 6 shield men no problem. but when there are equal number of shield men the spear men are pressed into quickly killing off shield men before they all rush the spears. And with most people in this sport going shield...the groups of spear men will have a harder time winning.

also with the number of 'snipping' archers rivaling the amount of spear users, we spears men have an even harder time surviving.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 11:32 pm 
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savetuba wrote:
Thus if you had 10 people using spears on one side, they could take on a force of 6 shield men no problem.
I disagree with this statement, assuming the fighters are all of about equal skill. A skilled shieldman can easily run a spear, lather, rinse, and repeat in seconds. The recovery time of a spear is much longer since you have a bigger and (likely) heavier weapon. It's wrong to assume that there is a game winning weapon combination.

I've always observed that spears work best when used in tandem with other fighters that are utilizing different equipment. Nothing in fighting is static; use your best judgement when fighting with a spear.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 8:19 am 
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kit wrote:
A skilled shieldman can easily run a spear, lather, rinse, and repeat in seconds.


sure if it was a 1 on 1. I bet you are a shield man that has never rushed 2-3 spears that are working together. Trust me, most people won't be able to get close to the people before dieing. The logic behind this is when a shield man rushes he must use his shield to block the 1st spear, sword for the second, and body for the third, in hopes of there is another man right behind him using him as a meat shield.

I have even proved that when a skilled shield man rushes a pole arm the pole arm can come out on top at CW X. (4 times in a 1 on 1 fight, one of the others was tor)

However, if you saw 2 or 3 spears pointing at you, are you going to try and rush up one of them hoping you don't gets stabbed in the process? or will you hang back yelling at the archer to aim at them?

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 9:53 am 
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First off, it is a screwy kind of logic that says, this many *blank* are no match for twice as many *blanks*. I mean, I would hope so. Superior numbers combined with teamwork are indeed formidible.

Now here is where your 6v10 shields vs spears situation goes awry. Once the shields begin manuvering. If you are fighting with these 16 folks on a bridge, then yeah, the shields will have a rough day slamming into that line. But the logical thing for a force of shields to do in that situation is to envelope the larger force of spearmen. Once that happens the spears will have to face off the shieldmen without overwhelming advantage, meaning maybe two spears for every shield. What I'm saying is that is would be difficult for the spear group to maintain the cohesiveness necessary to come out on top, if the battle took place in a more open field.

And savetuba, you proved nothing at Chaos Wars that hasn't been known for years. Yes, polearm fighters can win when rushed. And yes, they usually die when unsupported, even the very good ones.

Throw some shields in your formation you'll be much better off.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 3:55 pm 
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Try 6 shield users vs. 4 shields users and 4 spears and see who wins, all other things being equal...

Seriously, polearms users *rule* in channelized battles and when they have some shield men to prevent them from being run-over by shield users. Heck, even slowing them down will get them butchered by competent spear and glaive users that work together well. Of course, archers change everything...

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 11:40 am 
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Savetuba, your whole argument is weak as a sick old woman.
Quote:
sure if it was a 1 on 1. I bet you are a shield man that has never rushed 2-3 spears that are working together

Any 2-3 man team can kill a single sheild and sword weilding opponent. **** man, they out number him.
Quote:
The logic behind this is when a shield man rushes he must use his shield to block the 1st spear, sword for the second, and body for the third, in hopes of there is another man right behind him using him as a meat shield.

This is just non-sense. Every sheild man worth a **** can block more than one spear at a time. It's a thing they practise called sheild work. I'm not saying here the guy wouldn't die, bieng that he is still **** out numbered. I'm just saying it's a * point.
Kazi has it exactly right.
Quote:
First off, it is a screwy kind of logic that says, this many *blank* are no match for twice as many *blanks*. I mean, I would hope so. Superior numbers combined with teamwork are indeed formidible.

All this being said, I killed 4 sheild guys in one on one fights DURRING a large feild battle at Chaos War last summer. And none of them was Tor. I think I ruptured a kidney on one poor guy, but I digress.
It is indeed the situation and the savvy of the weilder that determines all this *, not a staitic equation that LOGIC can define.
FB

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 11:39 am 
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Generally the support thing is right, however everyone has those "superman" moments, and as much as it is awesome to tell a story about someone during those moments, I do not think they define a fighter.
For example:
Random person x usually kills 5 people during a battle, there are 5 battles.
The guy everyone (Mr. y) talks about all day, went off on his own and killed 10 people the 3rd battle on his lonesome with a single blue, but during each other battle killed 2 people.

Who's the better fighter, IMO random person x gets the prize because he is consistant, where as Mr. y had a moment.

This being said, I still can't believe that Beergarde's "operation buy her the lobster" where he killed 5 people in a charge before anyone else caught up to them, accually worked. Awesome day

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 12:23 pm 
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*, if I ever get to the point where I'm killing 5 people a battle I think I'll just retire.

And by the way, Beergarde is always bathed in rays of divine power like you see in the picture there.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 12:58 pm 
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*sigh*....beergarde....*hearts*


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 3:32 pm 
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 7:26 pm 
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You should see him in drag!!! ...dreamy...


You had to go there...





Nothing to see here. Yep, nothing to see here, folks... :angel:

Let's get back on the original topic, please.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 8:02 pm 
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just to keep this topic alive. What does a good spearmen do when fighting on a bridge or some close line-fighting?

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 8:46 pm 
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Also, this is more of a construction question, but i am planning on making a slim/low profile spear. (6ft core) So assuming I am using a standard Walmart football, how much foam is necissary on the tip?

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 8:58 pm 
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 11:00 am 
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On a bridge(which I love) I try to either break sheilds or stab/distract the bad guys while tring not to get shot. The not getting shot is the tricky part. it helps to have a really long pole for this type of stuff. Longer than you would use in an open field.
When I make spears, I start with the haft padding. You should have already taped the end of your core shut( I like to put a quarter on top of band poles). Put the haft padding right up to the end, so you pole ends in a flat circle. I then cut out a peice of leather(usually from a cheap wheling glove) in a disc about 1/2" to 3/4" smaller that the end of the pole. THis make sure the core will never rip through the foam. THen I put about an inch of closed cell foam on top of that, then the football. I use half the football, minus the sharp point on the end. I usually cut the half I use for the point down into a stopsign shape about an inch bigger than the core/haft padding to slim it down.
Good luck.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 8:06 pm 
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I have made the shaft an' all that, its just that I wanted to know how many inches of football was necissary for a passing spear. I did use half of a football, spent an hour shaving it into a cylinder, only to end up throwing it away because I thought it hit too hard. So, I took that chunk of opencell from an extra arrow kit and put that on top and reinforced with a beer cozy.

It looks okay, but it hits like a well padded brick. (I wouldn't know, I've never tested a spear before) I don't think it will injure anyone, but it kinda hurts with a hard stab.


I think I'll go dig that opencell out of the trash.... Maybe I'll replace the arrow kit foam with it. (I didn't glue it in place yet 'cause I didn't want to waste it)

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 8:32 am 
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It sounds like you on the right track. I always make a collar out of closed cell, like you're doing with the beer cozy. Good idea there.
Just keep at it and don't be afraid to change it if they tell you it fails.
DOn't give up, the world needs more spears.
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