Belegarth

Everyone,

Squire Fox from Wolfpack came up with this idea of implementing a standard training plan for our new fighters. Training would be divided into six different sessions starting with the basics and then building on that to include some tactics and melee training. He sees this training much as some of the beginning sessions you have when you're first learning a martial art. As it stands, each session will be probably about an hour and our regular practices are normally about 4 hours long.

One of the things that we've been discussing is whether we should have a standard style, i.e., sword and board, for training. We are for the idea since it allows us to cover certain topics you wouldn't be able to cover if a person is using a single sword or florentine, namely shield work. Also, we like the idea of having everyone "on the same sheet of music". If we had everyone pick out whatever style they wanted to use for training, then we would inevitably have fighters to either pick up a flail, two weapons, or the biggest red they could find. I'm sure that most people have seen how this can be an issue due to lack of control. Also, this would require us to adjust the training to each specific weapon style. His goal is to have a standard training plan that can be consistent and repeatable.

Some people have expressed concern that using sword and board would "lock" a person into only that style and that the person would not want to try any others. As it stands, we would only require the standard style during the training. A person would be allowed to try and experiment with any other weapon styles outside of the training sessions. We will also be discussing other weapon styles as a part of one of the training sessions.

What are your thoughts about using sword and board for training?

P.S. If anyone is interested on how this is being set up, I'll be happy to post the information.

I think basic fighting should be taught on either sword and board, or even more so on a single blue. For safety and effectiveness, a person should learn how to control a single blue weapon before they try a 6 foot buster sword or two longswords that they flail about wildly. Sword and board gives you that experience with a single weapon, but might focus more on shield defense that fighters might not need later if they go florentine or red. Doing single blue can keep the focus on general defensive dodging and parrying that can be applied to all styles down the road.

Numenor did something similar informally for several years.

I am strongly in favor of this plan.

As anecdotal evidence, I've discovered people are far more willing to stay and keep fighting when they are consistently learning and improving, as opposed to getting absolutely and hopelessly crushed for the next few months until they quit.

I also believe having smaller training sessions encourages newer fighters to get to know older fighters and fit in a little bit better. I've heard from many newer fighters that the difference in them staying was those couple guys who came up and talked to them. Having a trainer gives you a face to go to if you have questions or want to work towards something. It is more than "That is so and so, go to them if you have questions."

Further, it works the other way too. Having consistent small training sessions helps instructors determine who is most likely to stay and to really focus on them. The people being focused on train harder, fight harder, live longer, and have more fun than those who are hapless cannon fodder.

I know I would never be where I am at today if certain people didn't take the time to consistently train me. It really made an impression on me, and I do my best to pass on that mentality.

As for style, I do recommend everybody doing sword and board. Everybody learns the exact same thing at the exact same time, and can practice against each other while the instructor is giving individual tips. That makes for a more effective "class" than you trying to tell the florentine guy how to fight a shield user while the rest of the class falls asleep.

It is my belief that people with shields tend to live longer. Living longer means more fighting, which typically means more fun. More fun means more likely to stay, etc etc.

My suggestion is to start with large introductory classes to get people familiar with the basics, then get people with really solid foundation to give 1 on 1, or 1 on 2 sparring lessons.

Consistent and constant critiquing helps a lot. I've discovered that if I hit the guy on the exact same shoulder 20 times in a row, calling out my shot before I swing, and telling them what they did wrong after every kill tends to improve them far faster than just taking advantage of whatever I can find/create. The next day, they may forget some of it, but it comes back much faster. Then I move on to the next basic shot, and then the next basic shot, and then the next shot.

In the end, you are left with friends who are superior fighters, and who love the game.

Edit: People who single blue first tend to develop bad habits without people to really correct them. It is incredibly tempting to overextend one side single blue. It is also tempting to put more emphasis on horizontal shots that normally would never land on a shield user.

Some single blue is good, but the shots and footwork required differ significantly from efficient sword fighting.

Orren and I have agreed for a long time that newbies should learn to fight with a single sword and a round strap-shield. And this comes from Orren being almost exclusively a florentine fighter, and myself enjoying to fight with everything under the sun.
Like Kenny said, using a shield generally lets them live longer, especially if there are archers on the field. It also lets them focus on using just one sword so they can understand the mechanics behind it.
A strap shield (used with correct form) also teaches them what I'd call "passive blocking," which is very important in other styles like two-handed and florentine fighting, where economy of motion is a must. This is why I don't think people should start off fighting with punch shields.

To illustrate, last week, Lodian came down to fight with us for the first time. He brought two Edhellen longswords that he'd purchased, and we started out fighting single blue. After about half an hour, I had him pick up his other sword, and we fought florentine for awhile. I gave him pointers all the way through, and he remarked that fighting with a single sword was MUCH easier, and how having to deal with two swords was basically just confusing at that point. Then we switched, I took one of his Edhellen swords, and I let him use one of my swords. He also remarked on how much easier it was to fight with my sword, which illustrated the value of well-made and thought-out equipment--which I also think is an important thing for new people to learn so that they can appreciate the merits of putting time into constructing their own supplies (not just limited to weapons).

Of course, the most important thing is that they have fun. If someone REALLY wants to fight with a red sword, you have to let them, but also let them know the downfalls of the style, and the situations where they will be more successful. And help them experience these situations, such as fighting sword and board next to them during a field battle so they'll be more likely to get a few hits in with their red, and coaching them throughout (primarily for safety's sake). On the same note, I don't think that a new person should EVER be allowed to use a bow until they have enough knowledge and practice off the field to avoid harming themselves, other people, and their equipment (I've seen bows break or lose their strings on the field, and it's scary).

I would definitely agree with this. Though, since Sir Kenneth basically taught/sparred with me since my first day, he might've brain-washed me.

2 points that I'd like to add in favor of this.

1: Lots of fighters use shields. Learning how to fight past shields is very important, and using a shield is one of the best ways to learn how to get past one.

2: Many newbies seem to be attracted to florentine. IMHO, it is hard enough for a new fighter to control a sword with their main hand, let alone one in their off hand at the same time. And as Kenny already stated, a new fighter probably stays alive longer with a shield than without.

You guys got my back in this....If nobody helped me ida already quit...thanks to the better guys and my "I will learn even if crushed." attitude I am now happier than ever and love the sport.

By the way...stress anti-shield tactics they will defintly need those. /sign

we require people to use sword and board for 3 weeks when they start.
2 reasons.
1. it is easier for new people to get the style and they live a little longer.

2. They injure less people!!!. most people can;t keep track of one weapon at first, and forget red weapons, they may have more control, but if they don't then its hospital time.

i would subscribe, i could probibly use the training.

I would suggest starting the first day with just single blue, and some one on one sparring. Then move on to Sword and Board after the first practice.

I require new members to start with single blue, and i spar with them during that practice until i feel comfortable in their ability to control it.

I always try to encourage people to start fighting with a medium length sword and a small round shield. I do this for a few different reasons:

1) They learn to move. With a small shield, footwork/balance can win or lose a fight, it keeps people from getting lazy.

2) Dependence. Too many times I've seen people pick up a tower shield for starting equipment, and as soon as they get into a situation where they can't use it, they become completely useless. If they want to upgrade to a larger shield, so be it, but at least they have experience with a smaller amount of defensive capability, also, see point one.

3) Control. With a smaller weapon comes more control of said weapon. When teaching I usually have them use medium length (about 24" blades for swords) weapons. It helps them learn what the weapon does before they use a weapon that moves on it's own.

4) It's what I know best. It's hard to teach a style of combat you don't feel comfortable in. For example, I am a horrible fighter when given two swords, I'm just not aggressive enough for how I feel that style of combat should be. Therefore, I don't teach it. It is rarely a bad idea to turn a beginner towards someone who has more experience in a specific combat style.

Bahkdar, with assistance from a few other vets, trained our new fighters this fall several times, in topics like

Weapon blocking
Counter Swinging
Shield blocking
Leg work
Flourentine

Our newer guys and gals have almost all stayed with it, and are very good fighters for only being at this for a year. They all said that the training helped, and was fun to do.

Kenny pretty much hit the nail on the head. Besides learning and mastering the fundamentals of sword and board, it is then easy to learn other weapon combos:

1. Red Sword: You now know a shield fighters basic footwork, and can more easily anticipate when the attack will come. Not to mention that after wielding a heavy red, you can then swing your sword (with shield) faster and with more power.
2. Single Blue, Florentine: While many consider this the traditional starting point, it is a harder form to master, and has a steeper learning curve. (Not to mention survivability and fidelity with Belegarth).
3. Flail: A sword and board fighter can be twice as deadly when the use a flail. Also, using a flail may help to break the plateaus that many sword and boarders face during their fighting careers.
4. Spear: Starting with this first can get you stuck in perpetual pole arm country.

When I first started, Brutus and Argoth did a similar training session with us newbs and each of us doubled our potential within the first 4 practice sessions. Some of the exercises included (which I still teach till this day):

• The 4 main attacks (Drop shot, crossover, lunging straight, leg shot, and cross-over leg shot (“Khanda’s Move of Death”)).
• Behind the back shield blocks.
• 2 vs. 1 combat.
• Line vs. line. 2vs.2, 4vs.4.
• Footwork with simultaneous shield blocking and attack moves.
• 2 hit combos employing the 4 main attack forms.
• Shield ripping, bashing, checking, and kicking. (All extremely potent, yet often unemployed advantages on a field).

I’m sure that if Fox can make this successful, plus the addition of a minimum of 6 new (permanent) members in your next recruiting season, it would go far in the long run for the realm.