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Will the strategy below work on the field or is it a waste of time?
Poll ended at Tue Feb 15, 2005 9:28 pm
It'll work like a charm. 19%  19%  [ 3 ]
Find a new charm retailer. 81%  81%  [ 13 ]
Total votes : 16
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 Post subject: A whole new kind of charge: will it work?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2005 9:28 pm 
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I'm a noob to Belegarth and the whole foam fighting idea, but i am an experienced strategist with an idea. I've toyed with this idea for years but none the strategy video games i've played have had a rules system that would allow a tactic such as this to work as intended. It involves an army of say 50 men. This figure can be scaled up and down of course. We split the army into four divisions: A rectangular shield wall of 20 men, a unit of 11 people who the most highly experienced, a phalanx in square formation of 9 people, and a unit of special chargers who are the 10 biggest, burliest, most agressive fighters in the realm. The starting formation will be centered around the shield wall, with the chargers directly in front of it, the phalanx to either side and little behind so the frontline of the phalanx lines up with the rear rank of the shield wall, and the elite troops behind the phalanx. The chargers will be outfitted with clothing that makes them look as utterly huge as humanly possible, and their weapons will consist of a big-as-humanly-possible red and a javelin. When the battle starts, the chargers do what they do: they charge (big surprise!). Their charge is much different than a standard shield wall charge. They run flat out from the start. When they get about ten yards from the enemy lines, they launch their javelins over the frontline and into the enemy back ranks, promoting confusion. Never breaking stride, the chargers keep charging. When they hit the line they hack away at legs, shields, and anything else that moves. Throughout all this the shield wall, phalanx, and elites have been steadily advancing. The shield wall charges into the now completely disorganized enemy line. The phalanx breaks off to the side and looks imposing, lowering morale and keeping confusion to a max. The phalanx sits back and waits to charge. Timing is crucial. If the phalanx charges too early, they will get mixed up with the shield wall, momentum will break, and the attack will fail. If they charge too late, the enemy force may have organized a resistance and will be pushing back the shield wall, which is just another shield wall without the chargers, who will have all died a long time ago. If they charge at the the right time, they will rip through the enemy force who is just starting to recover from the initial shock, killing or maiming anyone in their reach. The elites rush in after the phalanx, isolating and eliminating anyone who looks like they could rally the remaining enemy troops to them. From there it's just a matter of mopping up the field of those last remaining gimps and experienced fighters. Again i have no idea if this will actuall work. In theory it has one weakness, the flank opposite the phalanx, which is vunerable to counterattack. All praises, suggestions, questions, and criticisms are most welcome. Thanks.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2005 10:52 pm 
Toadie
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One major flaw that stands out in my mind (and this could be remedied), is that you'll have all your chargers swinging huge red swords around in what I would imagine to be a rather tight space due to their numbers. Doesn't seem like there is a lot of manuverability for a large number of huge red swords to be terribly effective. Then again, I could be wrong, and would like to see this tactic would play out in battle.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 6:49 am 
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Very few realms will sit there and take a charge. most will roll out of the way to one side or the other, probably away from your reinforcements. with chargers with reds, they will only get 1-2 swings in before they are cut down.

As for making your troops look bigger, that may well work in a real fight with death being permenant, but you aren't going to scare anyone in this sport by looking big and swing big weapons.

No plan survives initial contact with an enemy. This would take a huge ammount of practice to coordinate, and can be countered rather easily by rolling the realm out of the way, then striking while your phalanx is trying to run through your chargers. Before you dream up elaborate stratagies, you may want to see a few battles first and, and realize that a lot of what happens on the field is improvised.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 8:19 am 
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Favorite Fighting Styles: Round Shield and Short Sword.
I have done some research on this type of charge. And yes it does work, although things things were different.

1. Drop the big clubs and trade in for a short sword that stabs.
2. TRAIN TRAIN TRAIN TRAIN.


The major problem is A. You have to train the chargers to run a pace or 2 behind there jav. B. You have to train the chargers to do this in group running at the same pace. C. you have to train your chargers to stop and slide when they hit the front line, plowing through just gets them killed.

Image

It is really fun, espeacialy to see the look on the faces of the people who are getting it. we started practicing on stationary targets and moved up to real people. You have to realize this tactic only really works on a stationary opponent. So if the enimy force moves in at the same time then you are totaly screwed. Busting through is generaly not a good idea too. What generaly happens when you bust through is you get hit by your own jav. The reason why you stop and slide is simple, you want to contain the confusion. We practiced the tactic a lot two falls ago.

And found a couple of ways to stop the attack, 1st. Split the defending force strait in half let the javs fly by and kill the chargers as they run in. It stops the slide too real fast and the chargers find themsleves getting tagged in the back really fast. 2nd, don't play their game, as soon as the charge comes the jav's are drawn start moving your force in a forward or diagnal possition to the chargers. It suddenly makes it really difficult to guage where they need to aim their target fire to get the jav to hit when they do.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 2:36 pm 
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I and my Ilk could easliy roll over and flank it.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 3:03 pm 
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I'm with Cyric on this one. We have tried the charge before (not as thought out as your) and it will only work on stationary targets, and usually only once.

We did this a Chaos 8 a few times, but other realms we just rolling around us and making it impossible for the charge to work. Those who stood their ground were destoyed but we lost huge numbers as well. Plus, they learned our tactic and learned how to defeat it. Since death isn't permenant, people learn from their mistakes.

I'd still love to see your charge happen by the way. It would be nice to be proven wrong on this one!

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 2:51 pm 
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I think that it is a bit complex and very impractical. You are combining several different tactics in fashions not suited for them.

1) Your chargers' weapons consisting of javalins and Great greatswords would be hard pressed to make an effective launch with the javalin, then manuever the greatsword into position, and try to inflict casualties instead of being giant meat shields, all the while in large, bulky clothing that could hinder their range of movements.

2) The shield wall has 20 people, in 2x10 or 4x5, or 1x20.
1x20) Your line is too thin to overrun your opponents after your shocktroopers have hopefully dissassembled their line
2x10) This is a little better, you have some depth, and certain blue swords could reach infront of the front rank with some positioning, but you would lose that when you engage the enemy
4x5) Your troops are not carring spears or pikes of any kind that you have stated, so your back two ranks are idle, waiting to be flanked, and then the shieldwall is neutralized due to the tiny front

3) Your phalanx is a 3x3 block, too tiny. The phalanx is a supporting charger, wrong. a phalanx's best job in this environment should be to maintain a kill zone for your troops, then supported by skirmishers and ranged combat. The phalanx will be overwhelmed by the lack of man power when it is flanked.
4) Your elite units in the rear are sitting on their hands until the shield wall is breached, destroyed, flanked, or otherwise neutralized. if they support the phalanx, they will be quickly encircled as they try to pass through the enemy lines. give them bows to fire while they are advancing, or javalins to support the strikers.

if anything do this
E - elite
P - phalanx
S - strikers (point men)
W- shield wall
F - foe


FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF


SSSSSSS
SSS


WWWW EEEE EEEE WWWW
W P P P P P W
P P P P

Yay for my artistic talent...

Now, i have tried not to change your units much, but have the shields cover the sides, bent in a little perhaps, and the elite units forward of the walls and phalanx. Give your troops range capability of some kind, all of the troops, and if you still want the strikers to move in to break a line, follow a couple yards behind the strikers, and volley i guess javalins so that you arent carrying around extra weight, and then follow up a few seconds after the strikers hit. this way, you are providing support for the strikers, and you are detering your opponents from encircling the strikers. Against other spiky opponents, train your strikers to split in half, and encircle the opponent, and then volley your main force's javalins into the heart of your opponent.

By the way, all of this is pure conjecture. I am a strategist by trade, and a novice to this style of combat like you are, so take all of this with a grain of salt if you have the patience to read it.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 2:52 pm 
Underling
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wouldnt it be nice if we got more credit for the length of the articles we write, instead of how often we post?

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 9:08 pm 
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Using the organization that you mentioned, I would set up the unit like this:

1) Shield wall in the center.
2) Some elites dispersed to the flanks. Others lined up with the wall to take advantage of any openings in the enemy line.
3) Some chargers dispersed to the flanks. Some deployed around and in the shield wall. The great weapons can assist the shield wall in destroying enemy shields. In addition, the shield wall can protect the reds from missile fire.
4) Phalanx serves as a flexible reserve for the wall...more on that later.

My reasoning is this:

1) I'm partial to a combined arms type of shield wall. I'm not a fan of a shield wall being out there without spears, reds, and archers to support it.

2) In my opinion, having the reds alone charge a shield wall is rather wasteful. If the enemy has any javelin and/or archer support, the chargers will get cut to pieces before they can actually reach the enemy line. You didn't make any mention about the chargers having a buckler or shield.

3) The elites can engage the far ends of the enemy line while taking advantage of any openings and eliminating any stragglers. The chargers can serve as distractions causing fighters to focus their attention away from the main fight.

4) It's extremely difficult for organized formations to protect themselves adequately on our fluid battlefield. If the front is reinforced, fighters will move around it and start picking off the flanks and rear. If there are a lot of shields, then polearms, arrows, and spears will whittle down the shieldmen. A "turtle" like the Roman testudo formation, would be pressed by skirmishers who would make quick, slashing attacks. Spears, missiles, and reds would eventually break down the shields.

Picture this: A formation of 20 people formed into a tight formation shield to shield presenting a circle of shields. The formation will not be able to move quickly since the success of the formation depends on all the shields staying together. Now, in come some skirmishers, spearmen, archers, and reds. The spearmen, especially if they're working as a team, will start opening up the shields. One spearman can push or sweep the shield aside while the other takes advantage of the opening. And if they're working in tandem with an archer, the archer can start firing into those openings also. The polearms and reds would start breaking shields. The shield formation would not be able to respond to those types of attacks without exposing itself. Once the outer shield wall has been weakened, the skirmishers can start engaging from different angles.

5) I would use the phalanx as my "ace in the hole". As the battle develops, there will be weak points in the enemy line. Once one of those is identified, I would move the phalanx to that location and punch through and exploit the opening. The elites in the line could then follow up. Hopefully, they would link up with the elites and chargers around the flanks and rear of the enemy line and would continue to disrupt/distract the enemy.

Kyrian

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