Belegarth

Tor wrote:Well... Since the site's like 20 minutes from my place... I guess I ought to show up.

Well how generous of you.

So cannot wait for this.

Par I am glad to see come to Yestare, I can't wait to see everyone there.


-Dash

I've really been looking forward to this. Good work on pulling the site together, Horati. Unfortunately, major medical stuff has now been scheduled to go down the day before at my home so I will not be making it. Kill some people for me.

What happend with the site from last year?

Jordan wrote:What happend with the site from last year?

They wanted to charge us more for camping/parking and then charge us even more for use of the fighting field.

The site from two years ago... there was some problems with the Ren Faire that prevent us from using that site, for now.

Wish I could go don't think ill have the money guess you'll know if I can make when u get hit by me!

It's funny that Yestare VII was mentioned, because that's the last event I ever went to...and this will be the next event I will be going to O.o

Awesome!

Pre-Reg is up. Waivers are up as well.

when does prereg close?

Pre-reg, as per the first post, will last up until I leave my house more or less. So, Friday morning at about 8 or so.

I agree with the step of looking at Backgrounds for most people. Especially for those accused/convicted of a sex offense. Good move guys.

Sir Par wrote:I agree with the step of looking at Backgrounds for most people. Especially for those accused/convicted of a sex offense. Good move guys.

Replied to the wrong thread or did I miss a few posts?

Edit: Reread the first post in the thread. It has been modified with information relevant to Par's statement.

Define background check I understand due to recent events that we need to look closer to the ppl in our group but how do u plan to do a check without a social? Ect so plz define background check and how u plan to do it

We'll be checking by simply running the names through the Sex Offenders Registry of their home state. Quick, easy, no SS# required.

Sounds good to me I was just curious so that we may possibley be able to follow suit at some point is there a website? If so pm it to me plz

I love the sex offenders website...it even tells you what the crime was.

Fangesta wrote:I love the sex offenders website...it even tells you what the crime was.

Some states get inventive with the names of the charges however. Virginia being one of them.

Ah yes how states like to word laws. Such as Idaho anal is a crime against nature and in Virginia (not sure if this is still true) sodomy is something you do with your mouth. Therefore Par should never go to Virginia.

He would be arrested on site!

Wow you guys are behind the times. In... 05 I think the Supreme Court struck down all Sodomy laws. Butt sex (what I do to Leaf) has been legal everywhere for like Six years now.

That's the way to give it to him Par.

not to derail the buttsex topic, but I should have a decent amount of Edhellen equipment for sale at the event. Let me know if you want anything in particular and I will try to get it ordered in time!

Ima go to this but im going to need some place to crash for a few days after the event.
Im planning on taking a bus from SLC to Denver a few days after yestare.
Anyone down to take me in for a couple days?
thanks

MeleeMoses wrote:Ima go to this but im going to need some place to crash for a few days after the event.
Im planning on taking a bus from SLC to Denver a few days after yestare.
Anyone down to take me in for a couple days?
thanks

lemme talk to mah girl and ill see if you can crash at my place

I'm tryin to find a place to crash to.
I want to go to salt wars, but I can only do that if somebody could let me crash at their place for a week.
Thanks guys.

From Utah's Sex Offender Registry website:

Before entering the web site, please read the following information:

Though much of the information is of record, some of the information contained on the site is obtained from offenders and the department does not guarantee its accuracy or completeness.

The information contained on this site does not imply listed individuals will commit a specific type of crime in the future, nor does it imply that if a future crime is committed by a listed individual what the nature of that crime may be and the Department makes no representation as to any offender's likelihood of re-offending;

If you believe that information on the web site is incorrect, please contact the Utah Department of Corrections, Sex Offender Registration Program at 801-495-7700, or sending email to registry@utah.gov.

Pursuant to Utah Code Ann. Section 77-27-21.5(22)(b) and (c), members of the public are not allowed to use the information to harass or threaten offenders or members of their families; and harassment, stalking, or threats against offenders or their families are prohibited and doing so may violate Utah criminal laws.

So, what exactly does event management plan to do with this information? That last little paragraph that you agree to when you access the website could in fact be construed as meaning that you can't do anything to people who are listed in the state of Utah. Granted, you have the right to keep anyone from participating in your private event, however, checking up on them may stymie your plans if someone wanted to press harassment charges.

I am reminded of some great quotes from an STTNG episode, The Drumhead:

Worf: "Sir, the Federation does have enemies! We must seek them out!"

Picard: "Oh, yes. That's how it starts, but the road from legitimate suspicion to rampant paranoia is very much shorter than we think. Something is wrong here, Mr. Worf. I don't like what we have become!"

Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. And then, before you can blink an eye, suddenly it threatens to start all over again."

Worf: "I believed her... I helped her... I did not see what she was."

Picard: "Mr. Worf, villains who twirl their mustaches are easy to spot. Those who clothe themselves in good deeds are well-camouflaged."

Worf: "I think, after yesterday, people will not be so ready to trust her."

Picard: "Maybe. But she or someone like her will always be with us, waiting for the right climate in which to flourish. Spreading fear in the name of righteousness. Vigilance, Mr. Worf. That is the price we have to continually pay."

Tiberius Claudius wrote:From Utah's Sex Offender Registry website:

Before entering the web site, please read the following information:

Though much of the information is of record, some of the information contained on the site is obtained from offenders and the department does not guarantee its accuracy or completeness.

The information contained on this site does not imply listed individuals will commit a specific type of crime in the future, nor does it imply that if a future crime is committed by a listed individual what the nature of that crime may be and the Department makes no representation as to any offender's likelihood of re-offending;

If you believe that information on the web site is incorrect, please contact the Utah Department of Corrections, Sex Offender Registration Program at 801-495-7700, or sending email to registry@utah.gov.

Pursuant to Utah Code Ann. Section 77-27-21.5(22)(b) and (c), members of the public are not allowed to use the information to harass or threaten offenders or members of their families; and harassment, stalking, or threats against offenders or their families are prohibited and doing so may violate Utah criminal laws.

So, what exactly does event management plan to do with this information? That last little paragraph that you agree to when you access the website could in fact be construed as meaning that you can't do anything to people who are listed in the state of Utah. Granted, you have the right to keep anyone from participating in your private event, however, checking up on them may stymie your plans if someone wanted to press harassment charges.

Honestly, learn to read. It says absolutely nothing that applies to the purpose we'll be using it for.

We're not stalking, threatening or harassing anyone, which is as it says, illegal. We'll simply be denying entry. That's it. The act of using the resource prior to entry in no legal way constitutes stalking, harassing or threatening.

Personally, I think this reaction is going a bit overboard and I'm concerned that this is just the first wave of a witch hunt that will result in mass paranoia about our fellow fighters.

Believe me, I'll be talking with Horati on this, as I'd really like to know where the line gets drawn. I have a "Public Lewdness/Indecent Exposure" charge in my past that could put me on that list. It's not that I was shaking my wang at kids or anything, but took a * in a friend's backyard compost pile and a nosy neighbor called the cops.

Edited to add: Oh, so I'm in the clear. It takes 4 offenses of Lewdness to require registration. But my point still stands.

Tiberious, my god man, shut the **** up. This is not some crazy witch hunt or fascist party in the making.

I personaly do not think the event should even be officaly invovled. It makes people who have paranoid tendencies to react stupidly.

It matters not. All names will be run whether the event staff offically does it or not. This is already taking place almost everywhere by small parties of belegarth veterens. No one is being checked for anything but sex ofenses. Public urinators and steakers are not on our radar, but anyone with kid crimes or rape crimes on their record will be removed from events by a select company of concerned Belegrim.
We will not have another incident in our comunity.
We plan to make belegarth toxic to sexual predators.
FB

Forkbeard wrote:Tiberious, my god man, shut the **** up. This is not some crazy witch hunt or fascist party in the making.

I personaly do not think the event should even be officaly invovled. It makes people who have paranoid tendencies to react stupidly.

It matters not. All names will be run whether the event staff offically does it or not. This is already taking place almost everywhere by small parties of belegarth veterens. No one is being checked for anything but sex ofenses. Public urinators and steakers are not on our radar, but anyone with kid crimes or rape crimes on their record will be removed from events by a select company of concerned Belegrim.
We will not have another incident in our comunity.
We plan to make belegarth toxic to sexual predators.
FB

This is exactly what we are doing. Public lewdness, such as * on something somewhere etc, will not be something of concern. Where as sexual assault of a minor, would invoke the removal of the person from the event.

Fork hit the nail right on the head. We do not want to have our community associated with anything bad towards minors. The minors are the future of our sport, end of story. We are making changes to enhance our future.

Reverend wrote:Honestly, learn to read. It says absolutely nothing that applies to the purpose we'll be using it for.

I'm a Police Dispatcher in Washington County, UT. We get tons of phone calls every day about harassment, and in reality, it only takes a person to call in "discrimination" to have an officer investigate "harassment". It's a vague term, and while nothing may come of it in the end, it just takes a squeaky wheel to get the cops involved and start a headache. Once the cops roll up, then there's all sorts of other things they can start prying into like under age drinking, recreational drugs, public intoxication, noise complaints, general "disorderliness", etc. These are all things that happen at Bel events. It's a can of worms we neither want nor need.

And Fork, if you want to have your posse of "concerned Belegrim" go after folks and remove them from an event without the event staff being involved officially, then you are more in-line with committing harassment and having an officer issue you a ticket or outright arresting you. How could you enforce it without the event staff? Physical force? Ridiculing and "harassing" them? Simply ignoring and shunning them? Two are illegal and the other not necessarily effective.

I'm all for keeping the children safe, but lynch mobs aren't the way to do it.

So Tiberius you have kids iirc, I think you said something about them once. If Lotek was from your realm, and you went to events with him and he hung out with your kids, wouldn't you want him to be removed from the sport?

Like seriously, who gives a flying **** if they want to cry harassment. Out with the rapos and chomos. They have no place in a game where you can bring your kids.

To answer your question directly, no I would absolutely not want him hanging around my children, and yes I would want him removed because as a registered sex offender the law requires him to not be around children. I would not, however, go about it vigilante style.

However, to further clarify my position, I would never allow my children at this age (4 and 2) to attend a Bel event period. My kids don't even come to practice, save its in the car with my wife when she comes by occasionally before the kids go to bed. Bel is an activity that we allow some teenagers to participate in, despite its severely adult culture.

When my kids are old enough to participate, if they're mature enough, then I will be with them, supervising them, and chaperoning them at all times. They'll check in every 30 minutes and they'll be within eye shot the majority of the time until I know I can trust their decision making abilities. They will only be allowed to associate with people that I know or have met and given the third degree. My wife and I don't let anyone but family babysit our kids, so I'm not letting them go off to be under the supervision of even people I "know" or "trust" as acquaintances from Belegarth. My drinking and fun time stops when it's time for me to be a parent.

That's not necessarily an admonition against all parents who don't follow my methods, but I'm going to go to extremes to reduce as much risk as possible.

As far as removing folks, searching the intertubes is fine and shows good diligence on the part of event organizers or concerned individuals, but it brings me to my original question: How will this information be used? If a violation of the law is noted, call the police. Don't handle it yourselves and escalate the situation into a brouhaha. The offender will serve jail time if appropriate and Belegarth won't be seen as the bad guy by "harassing" these "poor innocent victims who made a 'poor choice' so long ago but have reformed" blah blah blah. You know how these things get twisted.

No I don't care really how they get twisted.

Old men and young kids no matter how long ago is so fundamentally wrong, and theres enough quality people in the sport that we won't miss these few people. And everyones experience will be safer and better for it.

Lotek gets out, you want him allowed at events?

I want him allowed at events?

Did you read what I wrote? Right up at the top I said I want him removed. I'm just advocating letting the police handle the unpleasantness so the criminals can get arrested rather than roving gangs of Forkbeard and Co. hunting them down and ejecting them from events all Lord of the Flies style.

I will just clear this up now. ALL NAMES WILL BE CHECKED! Everyone will be checked. End of story. If you are a sex offender or not, you will be checked. If you happen to be checked and have an offense against a minor we will not allow you admittance. Event staff will say something along the lines of, "I apologize but we must ask you to leave." I do not believe we will have anyone that will fail in such a way, but we have addressed how it will be handled.

Simply asking them to leave should be sufficient.

tiberius your makin it out to be more than it is

I would gladly go to jail for harrasment of a sex offender. I've been to jail for dumber ****.
Don't worry, duder, we know what to do when the cops show up to keep ourselves safe.
But like I said, we will make Belegarth TOXIC to sex offenders. So they just don't bother with our groups. There are much easier pickings.
Let the creeps stay in their church groups and boyscout troops. Inclusive groups like that are required to respect peoples rights to privacy and are subject to liable laws. I'm not and nither are any of you. We are all just private citezens.
I can make it excruciating to be in my presence if I want to without breaking any laws.
Trust me.
FB

So I think i will be camping but the fam may stay here http://www.westerninntremonton.com/ Anyone know anything about this place?

Only 9 days *! So * stoked for this!

Sir Par wrote:Only 9 days *! So * stoked for this!

Note to self: Make sure Par has a terrible time.

Zeldrine Cold wrote:

Sir Par wrote:Only 9 days *! So * stoked for this!

Note to self: Make sure Par has a terrible time.

You won't if you value your balls.

My attendance is seriously up the in the air right now. Time off is easy, i can take time off from work whenever i want. Moonstone is currently unemployed, no problem there. However we are seriously short on cash this month (not even sure how I am paying my rent this month.) The other problem I have is my car, it's got some problems, i am having a mechanic look at it tomorrow, but unless a miracle happens and we get the money together, i don't think we will be going.

On a good note though, if the world ends, rent won't need to be paid.

Hard times suck.

Fellow Belegrim! What I would like to propose, for this event, is a donation fund for Karion and Moonstone. If you would like to donate, feel free, any amount is great. Let's make sure our Brother will be fine. I know as a group we can do this.

Awesome! I'll contribute at Troll.

Horati, now why in the hell would you go and do something like that? Everyone is having money problems these days, we aren't any more special then anyone else. I was just explaining why I am probably not making this event.

I'd throw in 5 bucks for you Karion.