Question?

[Zodiak]

what is the difference between belegarth and the sca?

[Teej]

You don't have to be able to afford a load of "required" armor. Belegarth lets you do some fantasy-roleplaying "orcs, elves etc etc..." Looser garb requirements. And its more of a sport for everyone other than those who can afford the armor... Better nightlife I've heard too...

[Winfang]

That's a picture of SCA fighting. SCA requires minimum armor protection (helm, gorget, knees, elbows, groin, kidneys, hands). The weapons that they use made from rattan. Because of the required protection, the entry cost of SCA can be hundreds of dollars. The basic rule of their heavy fighting is everything ABOVE the knees is a valid target area. Because they're trying to recreate armored combat bewteen two knights, there are other rules about honorable fighting.

But, SCA also encompasses more then just heavy fighting as that is what the above picture is. They also have fencing, esquestrian, live archery, and large amounts of Arts and Science.


Belegarth on the other hand requires no protection. All armor is optional. This causes the entry cost of Belegarth to drop alot. It can cost roughly $10 to build your own weapons or $50+ to buy some weapons from Edhellen. The basic rule in Belegarth is that only the head and neck are off-limits. There are no rules about honorable fighting. Belegarth's rules allow for much more phyiscal interaction.

[Ju'Dekei]

Also the rules are a little different which makes the style of fighting different. In SCA your #1 goal is to hit the other person's head while protecting your own. In Belegarth, head shots are illegal.

3.2.3. The Head is an illegal Target Area for Class 1, 2, and 3 Weapons. The Head is a legal Target Area for Class 4 and 5 Weapons.

This of course greatly changes the style of fighting...as illustrated in the above pictures. Note that in the SCA picture they are holding both their shields and their swords high, they aren't very mobile and are concentrating on that one blow. Then look at the Belegarth pic.

BTW - Way to pick GREAT pictures Winfang!! Belegarth is honestly superior to SCA (IMHO) but those pics prove it!!

[Barahir Ingem]

These pictures just prove that SCA is women who dress like men, and Belegarth is men who dress like women!

[Tensai]

lol. belegarth is way better in my opinion. lots more events. and its funny to watch the drunkards walk around camp singing. lol and its true, some guys dress like girls! i know, im a girl, and i get a kick out of the home made kilts. ((aka sheets wrapped around the waist to look like a kilt))

[shiv]

OR

Durrr....

[Kyrian]

lots more events

I'm not so sure on that one. I believe that the SCA has events throughout the year. They also hold more indoor events than we do. As an example, check out the schedule posted on the SCA Kingdom of the Outlands site:

http://www.outlands.org/calendar/index.aspx

What they have on us is sheer scale. Sorcia and I had the opportunity to attend the SCA Estrella War in Arizona in 1999. There were 6,000(!) attendees and about 2,000(!) on the battlefield. The annual Pennsic has attendance in excess of 12,000 with at least 3,000 on the heavy battlefield.

These are some small glimpses of the battlefield at Pennsic:








Kyrian

[Underhill]

Out of curiousity, what kind of injuries to they sustain in the SCA?

[Zodiak]

sca likes painfull/expensive. Belegrath it is

[savetuba]

Sorcia and I had the opportunity to attend the SCA Estrella War in Arizona in 1999. There were 6,000(!) attendees and about 2,000(!) on the battlefield.

I was there. I can only wonder if I past either of you two...Then again...finding someone would have been a needle in a hay stack.

[savetuba]

Out of curiousity, what kind of injuries to they sustain in the SCA?

imagen getting into a tin can and the trying to fight like a bele fighter only to be bowled over by a 400+lb charge. and then being trampled by the other 400+lb fighters behind them.

Only thing I like is the huge numbers of people and the massive amounts of spears.

[Mog]

Out of curiousity, what kind of injuries to they sustain in the SCA?

I've attended many SCA events. In Estrella War '98 I saw someone break there neck on the heavy field. (Bridge battle, spear to the face, homemade gorget through his neck, end of story) I have also seen a person knocked straight unconcious from a hit to the head, note it was his fault for choosing a helmet with insufficient padding in the forehead. He now has a nice rivet indent in his skull in the center of his forehead. All in all, the injuries I have seen have been due to improper safety gear or just carelessness. Not counting the scrapes and bruises that just come naturally when you hit people with wood.

[Ilariia Bulochnika]

I know a guy who is blind in one eye from having his helemt crushed into his nose and eye from a spear blow.

[Sir Par]

Why people would subject themselves to that is beyond me, especially when there are more fun things to do... Like Belegarth. Also SCA persons tend to look down on the boffers a bit. At least thats been my experiance.

[Teej]

For the realism, I'd do it in a heartbeat. But with a baby mere days from being born and no medical insurance, won't be buying SCA equipment anytime soon. Besides why do SCA and pay for what you need when you can supply a whole army in Belegarth!

[graavish]

whereas i tend to look down on the stupid people who get blinded and crippled etc. etc. for a game so you know there are trade offs

[Teej]

LOL

"So how did you lose your vision?"

"I took a spear to the face from a Knight of the Templar."

[Peregrine]

legal head shots I think I'll stick to Belegarth.

[Ilariia Bulochnika]

Sad thing is I know a few guys who **** themselves up more in belegarth than several of the SCA guys I know. Its all about being accident prone.

[Versago Hayashida]

yeah i know how that goes. either way though you know what your getting into so its your own fault for getting hurt. its the risk we all take. plus without risk life wouldn't be fun.

[Mog]

Why people would subject themselves to that is beyond me, especially when there are more fun things to do... Like Belegarth. Also SCA persons tend to look down on the boffers a bit. At least thats been my experiance.

IMO People do it for the off the field atmosphere, its a huge renfair. I've never partied as hard at a belegarth event as an SCA event, but how can we compete with a 6000 person attendance. Yes SCA ppl do talk down on us a bit, but no more then they do the rapier (swishy-poke) fighters, and no more then we talk down on the larpies.

[graavish]

dude i talk down SCA guys too their morons i will not risk death for a sport where i cannot go proffessional and have lots of money and *

[Izareth]

In one of Sir Kyrian's pics, there is a group of yellow-clad fighters about to bust up a line!!

They look cool.

Hitting from behind is also illegal in the SCA.

[Teej]

Hitting from behind is also illegal in the SCA.

Don't they require chilvary? **** I'd rather be a dirty-fighting barbarian.

[Kyrian]

What I like about the SCA:
-That achievements in the arts & sciences and service to the SCA are formally recognized.
-The sheer scale of some of the events. It's thrilling to be in a place where so many people share a common interest in the Middle Ages.
-Such nice garb (not always, but a lot of the time).
-Siege weapons--I've gotten to actually operate a ballista, a trebuchet, and a small-rock catapult at SCA events.
-Battles with thousands of participants.
-The medieval ambiance of their events. The period campsites and tents add so much to the suspension of disbelief.

What I don't like about the SCA:
-That someone can legally stab me in the face with a piece of rattan with only about 2" of closed-cell foam on the front--whiplash, ugh! Also, the potential for a crushed windpipe doesn't sound too thrilling either.
-You can't hit below the knee.
-That the monarchs are determined not by a person's organizational or leadership skills but by single heavy weapon combat. Note--the SCA also has rapier fighting but they can't participate in the Crown Tournies.
-That the politics can get unbelievably ugly.
-Some of the arrogance and self-righteous indignation I've encountered when I've told people I fight with "boffers".
-You can't backstab. I avoid it but that's a personal choice. It's still a viable tactic.

Kyrian

[debuenzo]

Why people would subject themselves to that is beyond me, especially when there are more fun things to do.

this is probably what amtguard and other larp says about us...

on topic...
you CAN hit in the back, but you must place your sword on the target's shoulder and say "death drom behind m'lord," and the target can interupt this at any time...

[Underhill]

Ouch.



That's awl Ah hayave to say 'bout that.

[Whitey]

correct me if i am wrong, but there have been deaths on an SCA field before, while our death count is at zero

[Teej]

correct me if i am wrong, but there have been deaths on an SCA field before, while our death count is at zero

Yeah but fatalities are a bad way to judge somehting. People die in highschool football, people die fishing... Hell you can die walking down the street... I bet you someone will die in Belegarth eventually. Sad to say but it's very possible.

[graavish]

actually there have never been any deaths in actually football with the exception of heat stroke related deaths TIME magazine talked about it when jonathan ogden of the ravens passed away

[Ju'Dekei]

Why people would subject themselves to that is beyond me, especially when there are more fun things to do...

Heh heh...um....yeah the same can be said about us...

LOL

[Killian of Andor]

Hehe, forgot about those. Never even finished reading all of em.

[Zodiak]

wow thought belegarth was safer...

not that injuries put me off, actually make me want to play more because now i know how physical the sport is, not just a bunch of geeks in tunics hitting eachother with sticks

[graavish]

hey hey alot of us resemble that remark....
naw dude i'm just kidding you actually get alot of ex athletes in the game i was a pretty good football player myself vo'kor was a * fine wrestler ALOT of people in martial arts here alot of people in non mainstream sports like rugby surfing soccer etc etc...
so yea not just nerds hitting each other for our opinions on that look here

http://www.belegarth.com/board/viewtopi ... 62&start=0

[A Mick]

Hey, an entire unit of heralds: I bet they're unstoppable out on the field.

Back on topic though. I've noticed there is a whole continum of fighters in regards to who looks down on who. The SCA looks down on us, some of us look down on Darkon/Amtgard types, who look down on the tapfighters, who look down on the light boffers, and pretty much everyone looks down on those Vampyre guys/gals. Seems kinda silly, don't ya think? At the end of the day, you're still just hittin' other people sticks: so why people gotta quibble about what the stick is made of?

[Underhill]

It's typical bigotry. We dislike those who are not like us. Same applies, except we all consider each other woosators.

The SCA guys I can understand. You kind of have to be moneyed and uber to fight there.

Belegarth...all we do is fight, really. Yeah there may be feasts, but the fighting's not hard enough for the SCA to respect us and not enough plot to hold the LARPers.

Darkon/Amtgard: I don't know yet, but they probably think Bel and the SCA are barbarians who fight without cause.

Vampyre: ...

I'll get back to you on that one.

[otherial]

haha I can't believe I was interested with larping at one point.

[Winfang]

If you're interested in what SCA combat looks like, here is a video of Midrealm's unbelted champions in a mountian pass battle.

http://www.midrealm.org/kith/unbelts/vts_01_1small.avi