Belegarth

I have a couple of questions
1 When is the line between not taking hits and cheating crossed?

2 What is a good way to deal with this in a repectful fashion without making a large scene?

3 What do you impose as a punitive cost to the Rhino/cheater?

I am new to heralding and would love some advice on how to handle this.
thanks in advance Bo

bo1 wrote:1 When is the line between not taking hits and cheating crossed?

They are the same thing. Not taking your hits is cheating.

Now no one expects to take a hit they can't feel, and so forth. But it's important to remember that if you see someone get hit and not take it, and not shout out a reason why, he just cheated.

It's also important to note that people cheat without knowing it. I've met a lot of rhino hiders that I felt really really didn't know they were being hit.

Rhino hiders shouldn't be shunned, they might not even know they're doing it. They should first of all be confronted, a simple "Hey, I've noticed a fair number a shots you missed, just try to feel 'em." can go a long way, and may even correct the problem.

After that, just work with them. One problem I had was that I would shrug questionable shots. If I had to think about whether something hit my leg or my torso, I'd be fighting again before I had time to decide. I had to learn the "If you need to think about it your dead" rule, and it fixed my problem.

Heya, great questions! And I agree with most of Trevelyan's answers, but have to point out one difference in philosophy real quick. Calling out "light" and "garb" is an optional thing. It's essentially calling out a missed hit, and someone who genuinely doesn't feel a hit won't even notice to call it out. I personally call out garb and light if I feel that there could be confusion from a shot, but understand why some people feel it's the equivalent of calling out "miss" every time someone swings a sword from five feet away.

In my realm it's actively punishable by timeouts if you call shots on other people and aren't an archer or Herald. The procedure here is to approach a Herald as soon as possible and mention that someone is getting thick.

This does a few things. It reinforces rule 1.3 (The target of an attack makes combat hit determinations), it cuts down arguments between combatants on the field, and it makes sure the Heralds know which individuals need closer watching (after all, a given Herald can only watch one segment of combat at a time) before people start too much grumbling that "____ is a damned rhino hider."

As Trevelyan pointed out, a lot of fighters don't even know they're rhino hiding and can be worked with. One of our newer guys here gets noticeably thicker throughout the day as his adrenaline goes up, and has the best attitude about trying to correct the problem possible. At this point, he just needs gentle reminders. The last one was even mimed, and worked.

To help specific rhino hiders, it helps to determine the problem's source. Some people just have problems with specific fighters, because in their head the other person wasn't "good enough" to score the shot, or the other fighter truly hits too light. Some people might just suck at taking hits from specific weapon types, like stabs (less surface area) or flails (less force because of the hinge) and need to take more care to be aware of these shots.

I've been lucky. I've never had to deal with someone rhino hiding because they are a *, will always be a *, and enjoy being a *. So other than spoken asides I haven't had to deal with punitive steps. The general punishment for rule breaking here is a series of warnings, and based on how those warnings are heeded and how often they have to be made, a series of time outs, extending as far as a month off the field. No one gets on the field who doesn't want to be there, so denying them their play works beautifully.

I mean to be repectful, so please take this as a polite statement not any flaming or anything else. Trevelyan i think you contradicted yourself, Rhinoing is not taking hits and by your word cheating. Thats my problem or question, I want everyone to take all good shots and call light on everything else. I fight with a chain vest, which is great. I can move in it, it counts as armor, and i can feel all the hits. I also wear Leather( 16 oz.=thick as hell) on my shoulder and arm. I cannot gauge with good accuracy the stregth of hit, or even feel it for that matter. I usually have to go by sound, or the sad look on my opponents face when he stares at the shot i never felt. here in lies the problem. I feel the game is like this
1. most important Saftey
2. Just behind saftey Hit taking
3. least important fighting skill

But in my perfectly legal armor, its hard to get every good hit its proper repect(taking it). So as a herald what do i tell someone when this occurs?
a. well its just a game and i will talk to them( kinda BS)
b. I think i will ask them to sit out a couple of battles to relearn calibration.( that will * off that Vet fighter in a big hurry
c. oh well, they have armor and its hard to feel every shot. just try to hit them harder. ( Saftey and what if you use that new swing on unarmored people, that stings a bit.
d. (your statement here)

Thanks for you time and help, I am learning to herald and all points and tips are greatly appreciated.

You want everyone in your realm to be a good fighter, I agree with your rules except you forgot "Have fun". Most good fighters will take your reminder to heart and purposely make up a rule for themselves to tell hits from graves. I will take hits as long as they hit and not slide down my garb for example.

bo1 wrote:I also wear Leather( 16 oz.=thick as hell) on my shoulder and arm. I cannot gauge with good accuracy the stregth of hit, or even feel it for that matter. I usually have to go by sound, or the sad look on my opponents face when he stares at the shot i never felt.

That lies not with heralding, that lies with you becoming accustomed to the leather... Unlike chain, the leather is going to absord more impact, while the chain, being more flexible is (in the main) going to flex with the hit.

I really can't add to what has else been said, because R/H or cheating was well discussed for a beginner herald. They are one in the same, the guys who honestly aren't feeling shots, and there are some out there, are a different mule to ride entirely. That is something that can be un-learned, being a blatant cheater is not the same thing. If the steps Aria mentioned do not work out, then unfortunately some people need to be removed from the field... permanently (heard about it, never seen.

My two pennies, and your mileage may vary; dependant on the actual problems you face.

thanks for the help, i will do what i can to correct myself about feeling the shots.

Don't EVER worry about * off a vet for calling shots on them. The rules apply to them just as well as anyone else. And I have seen more folks who have been doing this a long time shrug shots that they SHOULD have taken, simply because their opponent was "below them" as it were.

I think the main difference between missing/not taking hits and Rhinohiding is when one is made aware of a problem behaviour- and continues the behaviour, regardless.