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 Post subject: Looking for solutions to a heralding issue...
PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 10:31 pm 
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Hey I have a bit of a dilemma... In our group, we don't have much in the way of heralds, but we have people (one person in particular) who refuse to take hits, and insists on calling their own shots on other people... Every time we have someone fill in as a herald when he and people like him fight, they usually end up calling out the herald in an honor duel (we have a system in our group where if you have an issue, you have an honor duel about it.) It gets ridiculous to the point where everyone's honor dueling about honor duels. Yeah... (Just as an aside, the veterans of our group are all honest about taking our hits. It seems to be those who feel like they have something to prove that decide to be stupid.)

So I was just wondering if anyone out in the heralding world had any suggestions on how to go about solving this issue, short of beating the poor muppets sensless... (we've tried, but have concluded that most already ARE senseless, thus our efforts were for naught.) Is there any sort of heralding certification or other such way of regulating heralding? Like how refs for sports all have to go to the same classes and whatnot?

I don't mention this to complain much, as I'm just there to fight people, but when we spend more time arguing about hitting each other than actually hitting each other... yeah. Anyways, any advice would be greatly appreciated.

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 Post subject: Re: Looking for solutions to a heralding issue...
PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 6:27 am 
Monkey
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Is your group a realm? Who are the official leaders? They need to take charge and deal with the situation. My suggestions:

1. The realm leaders need to designate heralds. I don't think you need formal certification (although not a bad idea) but the selected heralds should know the rules and should be able to firmly and calmly enforce the rules.
2. The realm leaders and heralds must make it clear that on the battlefield, the heralds word is LAW (within reason, of course. If a herald abuses his/her authority, the realm leaders should remove them).
3. Get rid of the honor duel system. it undermines the authority of your heralds and realm leaders.
4. If a player starts to argue with a herald during a battle, the herald should tell them to take the call or sit out. Civil discussion of calls should occur after the battle.
5. If a player continues to flout the authority of the heralds, that player should be suspended from the group until he/she agree to abide by the rules.

As a realm leader, I have not faced your situation, but above is my gut reaction on how to deal with it. I'm sure that more experienced realm leaders will chime in.

Yours in service,
Rufus of Dragon Coast


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 Post subject: Re: Looking for solutions to a heralding issue...
PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 11:00 am 
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Warwel's got the basics covered. As an organization we do not have any national certification. Basically heralds have to have a few things to be effective on a local field. First off you need to know the rules(duh). Second you need to know that people are going to argue with you and not have a problem telling them to get off your field. Last you need to have the support of the realm leaders (who IMO should know how to herald and be willing to do it themselves, especially when you are starting out).
And I'm in total agreement with warwel on the honor duel system. That means that you've got might makes right, which in our game is dumb, because if you are arguing about how a rule should be enforced, and cheat to make your point, then how the hell does anyone learn anything?

Good luck on dealing with this, and if you have time/ability, go to an established realm and watch them herald for a bit to see how they do things.

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 Post subject: Re: Looking for solutions to a heralding issue...
PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 11:37 am 
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Warwell hit it * well on the head. One thing Get yellow tabards it is amazing how much more people listen to the marshal when they are in a tabard. Explain at the beginning of practice that the yellow tabard is the marshal and that he is in the ref.

If you don't have a realm leader(s) just have a rotating herald. If someone does not follow the rules or does not know the rules do not have them herald.

As for getting him to take hits if he still does not after the herald has called him multiple times just tell him to go away. Its not fun to play with the cheaters id rather just spar all day one on one then do melees where someone will blow off ten shots and then think they are hot ****.


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 Post subject: Re: Looking for solutions to a heralding issue...
PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 12:05 pm 
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bring them to Octoberfest- and introduce them to a few of us- we will fix it...
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 Post subject: Re: Looking for solutions to a heralding issue...
PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 2:31 pm 
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Heralds have the power to remove people from battle. Make those jerks sit out when their behavior is out of line. Another thing to consider is to establish a culture of honor. This is a positive feedback system. When someone plays well and takes their shots, say "good honor." GIVE NO PRAISE FOR GOOD FIGHTING WITHOUT GOOD HONOR. In other words, emphasize honor over other field acheivements. Greatly limit praise about fighting unless you are complimenting noobs who are improving. Good fighters don't need to hear how awesome they are. Changing "did you see how he stomped that guy" to "so-and-so had great honor when he said not to take his flat," will make it so the realm focuses more on progress and development than just winning. Remind them, their honor, rather than their fighting ability, is what will get them noticed.
-AoC

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 Post subject: Re: Looking for solutions to a heralding issue...
PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 7:15 pm 
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Thanks everyone for your replies. We're on the verge of establishing our own unit within the dagorhir realm of talinor, so I figured since the two are so similar the belegarth board would be a good place to post my question. (I must admit I also find the dag boards rather lacking.) It sounds to me like what I'm gonna do is get together with the other vets (we have almost no contact with the rest of the realm) and our unit "leader" (we use this term loosely, as it's really only a formality) and have a big old chat before the next practice. Just to lay down the rules again for everyone, so noone feels singled out.

As an aside, the honor duel system is an "archaic" carry-over from our unorganized days, but was modeled after the middle ages where oddly enough, the better fighter was always right. We let it carry over with the thought that it would be a rare thing, and that as the vets would do the winning in said honor duels over the noobs, and since all the vets are good lads, no harm would come. But people are honor dueling over stupid things now, so I've been thinking myself that it's about time for those shenaniganz to come to an end.

So all in all, it seems we (the vets) need to all start heralding (I like the rotating herald idea) and we need to ENFORCE our calls a lot more sternly so as to convey our serious distaste for cheaters. Great advice, all, and thank you once again for your input, and happy hunting.

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Live, Laugh, Hunt, Howl.
Mach's gut. Ich mach's besser!
Ich bin ein heidenheimer. Wo kommst DU her?
Flo' Fida :-p

"The bravest are surely those who have the clearest vision of what is before them, glory and danger alike, and yet notwithstanding, go out to meet it."
-Thucydides


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