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There are no staffs in Belegarth. Because of how they are constructed, they are really Pugil Sticks.
There are no staffs in Belegarth. Because of how they are constructed, they are really Pugil Sticks.
Angmarth wrote:Rocks are the most unrealistic weapon on the field. They (dare I say) are far worse than our flails. You can carry a bag with 10 of them and toss around death and drek as if it were going out of style. I dare ANYONE in our game to throw a softball size rock any reasonable distance accurately. You certainly can't throw them like a baseball or a football, that is downright stupid. In the interest of science I am going to demonstrate my point. The volume of a sphere is one third pi r cubed. Our MINIMUM rock volume is 21.3 cubic inches (349.6 cubic cm).
If our rocks were made out of...
... iron they would weigh a MINIMUM of 6.1 pounds.
... sandstone they would weigh a MINIMUM of 1.77 pounds.
... granite they would weigh a MINIMUM of 2.1 pounds.
These are the MINIMUM rocks. Unless someone can go around specifically find all the 4" rocks in the world, I think it safer to say that our rocks really should average around 5.5". Now you get this...
If our rocks were made out of...
... iron they would weigh 15.8 pounds.
... sandstone they would weigh 4.62 pounds.
... granite they would weigh of 5.4 pounds.
For simplicities sake, let's argue that 5lbs is the average rock a person would find. I think it is rather obvious that carrying more than one is going to seriously impede your movement. Find a 5 pound rock and see how far you can throw it.
The simple fact is this, if ALL rocks were built like bean bag chairs then I would have less a problem with them. Why you ask? Because it now behaves like rock.
1) You can only carry one effectively.
2) Throwing it is difficult.
3) It is much easier to block but is heavy enough to not be swatted away like a ping pong ball.
This makes the rock BEHAVE like its historical counterpart. My squire Griffith said to me, "A rock that size would weigh a ton." I replied to him with Yoda like wisdom, "Size matters not." It looks ludicrous and should probably be simply banned for appearance alone, but the fact of the matter is that you have to have something the size of a small child to REPRESENT something that is 4 inches on all axis. It is the same problem I have with flails, a problem which heavier heads would address.
Satanaka wrote:Rocks are part of the game- get a helmet or duck, dodge, block the rock- It might make you a better fighter...
Satanaka wrote:Also- Missles don't need "sufficient force"- if they did- you would not have been yelled at by the archer or the Herald.
There are no staffs in Belegarth. Because of how they are constructed, they are really Pugil Sticks.
BoW wrote:3.8.4. A missile Weapon is considered to have hit if there is significant deflection of the missile head (>30 degrees).
Satanaka wrote:Attention
Uberlight weapons were a part of the game, too. So were 4 foot flails. Eliminating them didn't make people worse fighters, it just changed the rules of the game. Enough people seemed to think that those changes were beneficial to the game we play to make the change.Satanaka wrote:Rocks are part of the game- get a helmet or duck, dodge, block the rock- It might make you a better fighter...
This is true, and probably necessary in order for armor to be on the field.Satanaka wrote:Also- Missles don't need "sufficient force"
Giggles wrote: I ask that if you're going to continue posting in this thread that you curb the ad hominems and stick to the topic. If you're gonna be insulting at least be entertaining while you do it. This is Rules Discussion and Development
Giggles wrote: Rocks are the kind of thing that I group in with spongebob swordcovers, the ban on SCA armor, gimped xbow rules, and green weapons that can't pierce leather. They're goofy, sometimes charming, but very outdated artifacts from a game that we no longer play.
Giggles wrote:We've dug ourselves into a hole in a way because rocks serve a function in the game, I just don't think it's a very good one or a well thought out one for the reasons I put in my first post. If people could live without their 6 oz. 4 foot flails, I think rock users can also move on.
Forkbeard wrote:Giggles, thats **** profound. I totaly agree.
Satan aka
Shut up.
FB
Big Jimmy wrote:Satanaka, can you make a point without calling peoples * and babies at the same time?
Angmarth wrote:It seems that Satanaka has countered my scientific observations with the "Waaambulance" retort. I think this means I lose the debate.
Giggles paraphrased wrote:Rocks are frequently so soft you can barely feel them if they connect. Dreadlocks, gigantic hats, and thick skulls all get in the way from feeling a rock connect. It can be difficult or impossible to judge if it deflects enough to score a legitimate hit. They don't feel anything remotely like a javelin or arrow.
Angmarth paraphrased wrote:Science
There are no staffs in Belegarth. Because of how they are constructed, they are really Pugil Sticks.
Spike wrote:That's why archers can call their shots. When a fighter is hit by a javelin, do they not look to the thrower and ask if it was haft or tip?
Satanaka wrote:Many of you post about the same way- IMO comes across offensive (jimmy), sarcastic (jimmy and others) and just trying to own agendas.
Satanaka wrote:Take the freaking hit- play the game and let the "chuckle heads" have fun since they don't mind you "*" having fun.
Giggles wrote:What purpose do rocks serve? Why are they good for Belegarth?
What purpose do rocks serve in our rules? Why do people like rocks?
*Rocks are easy to conceal and can target the head, a target area that's traditionally vulnerable at melee range. They are a good weapon to catch your opponent off guard with.
*Rocks are smaller than a javelin and can be thrown accurately with less force at a closer range.
*Rocks are a utility weapon that everyone can carry with them at little to no disadvantage. It's just that, nobody really does.
Nongameplay advantages to rocks:
*They are an ego-deflater. Losing a battle to a rock is the Belegarth equivalent to the McDonalds employee spitting in your hamburger.
*They are comedic. If you think Larry the Cable Guy and spitting in someone's hamburger is funny.
*They make Belegarth less sportlike and more gamelike. Appeal to emotion, anyone?
*This one's mine: they are an equalizer for people that aren't good fighters. Any noob, or random dude can score a kill with a rock. If you watched the Wreckreation Nation episode with Dagorhir, you'll remember that the only kill the host ever got was by blindsiding some kid with a javelin. It's similar to how in Amtgard, Joe Newguy who's only been playing for 2 months can play the wizard class and start lobbing insta-kill lightning bolts. It lets less skilled players have some sort of "edge" over veterans.
*They're a cool concept. Who hasn't fantasized about dropping a cinderblock on their bosses face? Killing someone with a rock is theoretically brutal as hell.
Giggles wrote: My primary issue with rocks as they are -aside from them hitting too soft to tell a hit, and being completely unrealistic- is that there is no other game function that is remotely similar (a floaty ball of open cell foam that gently drifts into peoples faces, killing them instantly). It is in fact, it's own class of weapon.
What purpose do rocks serve? Why are they good for Belegarth?
Giggles: If you just want to be an unskilled * killjoy on the field, pick up a bow, or get better at backstabbing.
Forkbeard: Unfortunatly,too many chuckle heads think they are funny.
Big Jimmy wrote:The difference Satanaka, is that none of us were mud slinging in this thread. Once the first stone is thrown it's all fair game. But the first thing you did when you got in here was call everyone who doesn't like rocks an *.
Theros the Large wrote:Aside from Tennessee events of course, thanks to Wick and his garbage bags full of plaid misery.
Theros the Large wrote:Is this argument really even relevant?
I have seen a steady decrease in the use of rocks over the years. There are usually only a handful of them at most events. Aside from Tennessee events of course, thanks to Wick and his garbage bags full of plaid misery.
In my opinion, some people take foam swinging FAR too seriously. If getting killed on the field with a chunk of foam really upsets you that much then you might need to rethink exactly why your out here in the first place.
This is a game enjoyed by people of all types. Having a "stupid and cheesy" weapon like rocks helps keep foam fighting in perspective. This is supposed to be fun...for everyone!
If you are looking for a completely serious medieval fighting group then perhaps you should look into the SCA. They seem to be the people who like their Medievalism to be "serious business". I find it hard to demand perfect realism in a game that allows people to dye themselves green or pretend to be Orcs.
Just my two cents...
I like bows, and javelins, and armor, and breakable shields. I think they add a lot of variety and strategy to what we do, and I would be sad to see them go away.Arrakis wrote:Let rocks and javs and whatnot live and encourage more Ditching at events.
It doesn't upset me that much, but I think it's a stupid and archaic part of Belegarth that doesn't belong from a rules/playability standpoint.Theros the Large wrote:In my opinion, some people take foam swinging FAR too seriously. If getting killed on the field with a chunk of foam really upsets you that much then you might need to rethink exactly why your out here in the first place.
Belegarth (like it or not) is competitive. The rules don't exist to legislate how much fun everyone's having. If somebody wants to have "stupid and cheesy" fun, fine. I find that annoying, but whatever. I come out to fight and get drunk with friends, not play dodgeball with stuffed animals and crocheted pokeballs.Theros the Large wrote:This is a game enjoyed by people of all types. Having a "stupid and cheesy" weapon like rocks helps keep foam fighting in perspective. This is supposed to be fun...for everyone!
Realism isn't really the issue here.Theros the Large wrote:I find it hard to demand perfect realism in a game that allows people to dye themselves green or pretend to be Orcs.
Forkbeard wrote:Indeed, Giggles, realism isn't the issue. THe issue is a few people doing somthing stupid to distract regular fighters rom the competion they showed up for.
It also seems to really * off * like satan-aka. Anyhting that gets **** like that **** upset is my kind of cuase. Once we get his mouth diarea flowing I can't stop laughing.
FB
Forkbeard wrote:Indeed, Giggles, realism isn't the issue. THe issue is a few people doing somthing stupid to distract regular fighters rom the competion they showed up for.
It also seems to really * off * like satan-aka. Anyhting that gets **** like that **** upset is my kind of cuase. Once we get his mouth diarea flowing I can't stop laughing.
FB
Satanaka wrote:And Jimmy- before you start- Forkbeard started this. Thanks
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