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 Post subject: My Humble Apologies(Noticable Force in Dag)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 8:43 am 
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I need to apologize to all the Belegarth people I have yelled at lately about this Dag/Bel nonsense. I was a big jerk to everyone to get them to shut up so we could work on everyone getting together.
I was very, very wrong.
Apearently my DAGORHIR freinds didn't think it was important to inform us that Dag had seased being anything like Bel at all and has adopted a rule of NOTICABLE FORCE on hits. This means no more calling garb and no more calling light. Hit's no longer need to land with anything more than a light tap to count. I heard about this months ago, but I thought it was exagerated * becuase non of my good freinds who play Dag had said anything about this drastic change to the structure of Dagorhir.
Without requiring sufficent force, every stupid flialing weapon that bumps me in combat is suposed to kill me? I don't **** think so. We're not fighting with lightsabers, here. I have never been able to take tap fighters seriously in thier own environment and I never will. You need to aply some force to kill someone with a sword, interfering with the swing to disrupt the delivery of that force is a large part of swordplay. Making "noticable force" all that is required take this all away.
LAME!!
Conversly I know many, many Amtgard fighters and even a few LARPers who, when they step on a proper feild, where suficent force is required, can fight just fine. Many are even very good at our rougher game. I enjoy these people crossgaming thouroughly. I hate fighting on thier fields, however. I do not like being rubbed a little by a shot I blocked and called dead.
I'm not saying this type of fighting is wrong, I'm just saying it's NOT what we do here. Dagorhir USED to be our sister organisation. All my Dag freinds had my full support. I would send people to Dag groups to fight when they moved to their area. No more.
How can I send Bel fighters to a park expecting to fight and have them be told they are at a tap-larp. That's making me look stupid and it's causing them confusion and disapointment.
I can't believe you dag folks withheld this information from us. I mean, we would have read it on the boards there, but most of us are **** banned for no reason.
Oh wait, I just figured out the reason, so we couldn't see your "noticable hit" * and stop people froim waisting their money on Rag.
Well, the cats out o the bag, ****. I'll just say it now...
DO NOT GO TO RAG, IT'S GOING TO BE A GAY * TAP-LARP.
Now, please, discuss. TRY to justify this move to jr high tappy play. TRY.
FB

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 Post subject: Re: My Humble Apologies(Noticable Force in Dag)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 8:51 am 
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 Post subject: Re: My Humble Apologies(Noticable Force in Dag)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 9:17 am 
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Its a * rule that wasnt thought about before it was written. It also was never voted on by RWC to my remembrance.

The best way to deal with it is crank people hard, and don't call light. Im not saying take **** shots, just don't notice them. If you dont acknowledge the shot, it doesn;t count. Just lets cheaters get away with more.


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 Post subject: Re: My Humble Apologies(Noticable Force in Dag)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 9:34 am 
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That's EXACTLY the problem Varadin.
If I ignore light shots, people think I am a rhino. They talk **** and people from dieffernt units and realms start to hate each other and sportsmanship plumets like a lead balloon.
When I call light I am aknowleging that I know you hit me, but not with a good shot. That says I am not cheating, but you need to only to swing a little harder or improve your wierd wrap shot technique some more. It allows us BOTH to leave the situation with honor. This, in the long run, increases sportsmanship and inter-unit comraderie, which inturn increases the sport in very positve ways for everyone.
Allowing your game to become a tap-larp increases membership at first, but it will drive off every good fighter you have and replace them with delicate noodle armed sissies with sand in their vaginas. Have fun with that.
My real beef is that people who consider themselves my FRIENDS in real life neglected to tell me, or any of us, that Dag had made this fundamental change. I've been defending Dag without this knowlege. I feel this takes away from my credibility and makes me look like an asshat.
I know I say alot of **** up **** and a swear alot, but I have a reasonable amount of credibility. I don't say **** that isn't true and I don't call people out who don't deserve it. I feel I use this credibility to do positive things. Degrading my cred * me off.
I've been recomending that people go to Dag events and ****. Telling them that Dag is just like the game they are used to, they just have a little different take on weapon size. I even make my weapons Dag legal on the off chance that I'll be albe to make my way to an event, even though in 9 years I haven't been able to.
This is a very big deal to me. It might seem like I just talk random **** on the internet, but I don't I actually try to help our little foam covered world with my nonsense. I can only do that if I have all the facts.
FB

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 Post subject: Re: My Humble Apologies(Noticable Force in Dag)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 9:36 am 
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Welcome to the fold.

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 Post subject: Re: My Humble Apologies(Noticable Force in Dag)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 9:52 am 
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This was my original problem with the Dagorhir rules, although the guys I fight with locally, Black Company, crank that **** hard on you. We also fight in Arnor as well, and they hit like trucks. Most everyone here in the midwest that I've experienced still calls light, still hits hard and still hates this rule. They also like Bel's grappling rules as well. I'd say the singular reason why most of Missouri and Kansas are Dag realms is to be able to recruit local fighters from both boards, although 90%+ of all the guys I know all crossgame.


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 Post subject: Re: My Humble Apologies(Noticable Force in Dag)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 9:57 am 
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Dont get me wrong, I agree with you. It was never anything i nor anyone from the North East ohio agreed on. Youll get some people that say it still means you can call light, and then youll get some people who call you a cheater for calling light. Its *, Sorry you didn't know Its been tossed out here a bit before. I still will fight the same and call light. If a herald wants to yell at me he can, and ill just stop calling light then.

Its * and its not the game i started playing. I will continue to fight against changes like this, and idiots in Dag since its where i started and what i fight. There are people in agreement with you fork


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 Post subject: Re: My Humble Apologies(Noticable Force in Dag)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 10:34 am 
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FB- Can I plagiarize your posts and post them on the Dag boards? After some editing and censorship of course. I have been campaigning against this rule for a year now, and some of what you said fits perfectly into a couple of threads on the subject.

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 Post subject: Re: My Humble Apologies(Noticable Force in Dag)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 10:43 am 
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Another one of those glorious "typos" that are somehow in the rules. I'm sure certain people would blame it on the fact that the people who run Dagorhir are "volunteers" and they can't be expected to do their jobs right without remuneration.

Check the Wayback Machine for the Dagorhir page and check out the AWESOME changes to the rules that were made every 6-16 months that weren't voted on by the War Council and that seem to have just been added in and deleted at the whims of whomever was in charge of the website. It's really enlightening.

If I were the RWC Rep for a Dag Chapter, I wouldn't stand for the sort of underhanded * that's been going on in the organization at a very high level for a very long time.



But yeah, I've actually encountered Dag fighters who think that calling "Light" is cheating, that the lightest hit counts, and that ignoring a hit you noticed is cheating. It's really retarded. I still call Light at Dag ****, though, and I've yet to run into anyone with the poor judgment to try to call me on it.


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 Post subject: Re: My Humble Apologies(Noticable Force in Dag)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 11:36 am 
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Yup Forkbeard, that happens with local interpretations that miss parts of the rule they're talking about. Like the words "solidly" and "force".

There's still shots too light to count in Dagorhir, this ain't Amtgard (which has plenty of people who can still crank shots).

I'm with BlackHawk on this and my chapter would support a return to at least the previous wording of "sufficient" force. But this isn't really the place to talk about it, nor is the solution to boycott the event where we can hopefully make changes to address the silliness.

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 Post subject: Re: My Humble Apologies(Noticable Force in Dag)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 11:41 am 
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I'm going to Olympics in a couple weeks. At this, a big Midwest Dag event, I intend to call 'light' on * shots. I'll let you guys know how it goes. The way for cross-gamers to handle this is to just not go to places where the community accepts this crap. If Olympics is an event where the heralds expect me to die because my opponent tickled me, then this'll be my last one for a while. Based on the Midwest Dag folks I've met, though, I don't think this'll be the case. Cool people, with some thump to their swings.

We'll see how this plays out, but I doubt it'll really take.

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 Post subject: Re: My Humble Apologies(Noticable Force in Dag)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 11:44 am 
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Whose this 'We.' Saying people in Bel can go to Rag and change a rule is silly. Because you can't be advertise being both a Bel realm and a Dag realm, or even have 2 separate groups with separate names and a lot of cross over membership in the same town, 99% of the members of this board have zero control over your games rules.

Skip Rag, come to Arm. It's in every way possible a better event, unless you like a huge battle of bad fighting.

And just to show I'm not 100% prejudice, I met an AWESOME guy from the Jestigise (I'm positive that's spelled wrong) this weekend. I was shocked, but he was a really cool dude.

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 Post subject: Re: My Humble Apologies(Noticable Force in Dag)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 11:59 am 
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Don't give up on the dag realms out here Fork. We just had a discussion about hits and the split on the Vegas dag guys' board and their king finished the thread laying down the local interpretation, I think you'd like him. Here's a quote from that post:
Surt wrote:
there is such thing as a light hit. in bel and dag. what cheapens a fight is the person hitting light. when someone hits somebody lightly your forcing them to make the desicion of taking a * hit and dieing or calling light and looking like a *. this is not a tap game. thats amt or nero. i don't care how small you are. my little sister audrey used to fight with me when she was in elementary. and shes hit me hard enough to regret going easy on her. i don't believe it when people say they can't hit hard. what i can beleive in is they are too tired to hit hard. if thats the case, get off the field and rest until you can play the game the way it was meant to be played.

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 Post subject: Re: My Humble Apologies(Noticable Force in Dag)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 12:16 pm 
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Big Jimmy wrote:
Whose this 'We.' Saying people in Bel can go to Rag and change a rule is silly.


Big Jimmy - this "We" are the folks who've already posted here (and in similar threads) who are in Dagorhir chapters and can encourage a change to this. Yet another thread on the Belegarth board railing about Dagorhir or its rules isn't going to be as productive as these same folks going back to their chapters to get them to support changing the wording.

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 Post subject: Re: My Humble Apologies(Noticable Force in Dag)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 12:17 pm 
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Big Jimmy wrote:
I met an AWESOME guy from the Gestiguiste


True fact. Iron Will, and he was cool as hell. Glad to have met him.

And yes, we can have an impact on their games. Not much of one, but just going to or not going to an event is worth something. My $20 on Mittelmarch's ledger means that I tacitly support the way they run their event. It's not much, but it's not nothing.

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 Post subject: Re: My Humble Apologies(Noticable Force in Dag)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 1:42 pm 
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Slagar wrote:
At this, a big Midwest Dag event, I intend to call 'light' on * shots. I'll let you guys know how it goes.


You won't be the only one.

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 Post subject: Re: My Humble Apologies(Noticable Force in Dag)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 1:48 pm 
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Slagar wrote:
At this, a big Midwest Dag event, I intend to call 'light' on * shots. I'll let you guys know how it goes.

Should be fine, unless you win a tourney.

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 Post subject: Re: My Humble Apologies(Noticable Force in Dag)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 2:14 pm 
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Dane wrote:
Slagar wrote:
At this, a big Midwest Dag event, I intend to call 'light' on * shots. I'll let you guys know how it goes.

Should be fine, unless you win a tourney.


LOL.


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 Post subject: Re: My Humble Apologies(Noticable Force in Dag)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 2:32 pm 
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I don't know one person who hits any differently or plays any differently because of the word 'noticeable'. Its a poor wording, and I don't know why its there, but it doesn't change Dagorhir. If you know of anyone whose actual *playing* experience of Dagorhir has changed because of this word choice, lemme know.

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 Post subject: Re: My Humble Apologies(Noticable Force in Dag)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 2:38 pm 
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Athron wrote:
I don't know one person who hits any differently or plays any differently because of the word 'noticeable'. Its a poor wording, and I don't know why its there, but it doesn't change Dagorhir. If you know of anyone whose actual *playing* experience of Dagorhir has changed because of this word choice, lemme know.


Talk to the senigals, they've yelled at me for calling light before. I calmly said "**** off"


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 Post subject: Re: My Humble Apologies(Noticable Force in Dag)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 2:44 pm 
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So you're blaming that on the wording? Cause I've seen them do that well before this happened, so the word 'noticeable' can't be the original source.

That's sort of my point -- however people played Dag before, they will continue to do so, regardless.

And you learn more about how Dag is played in the first 10 minutes you fight against a veteran (in terms of hit calibration) than you do in 100 hours of reading rules, forums, etc. So, at least for me personally, I just don't sweat it because I don't think it has a material effect on the actual gameplay either way. But it HAS had a material effect on my nerd-fighting boards gameplay, so I can't entirely dismiss its impact :-)

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 Post subject: Re: My Humble Apologies(Noticable Force in Dag)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 4:31 pm 
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Personally I think the rule is an abomination and should be changed immediately back to it's original wording. it has been argued that the wording is actually more clear now. But it seems to me that to many people interpret the new wording to mean that Dag is lowering it's hit calibration.

Of course there is not a perceptible change in the hitting in Dag right now. But as this rule filters through the game, light hitters will have a spot in the MOA to point to and call honorable fighters, cheaters. Over time, the hitting will become lighter.

Even now there are people claiming that since they take the lightest touch from a weapon as a legal hit, they are somehow playing more honorably. This is absolutely false. They are doing a disservice to anyone they fight, especially noobs. It promotes poor shot selection, poor body mechanics, and a general feeling that honorable fighters with reasonable hit calibration are rhinohiders.

Here is an example of a conversation I had with another fighter:
Me- I felt a slight graze here on my arm but it was light as hell, do you want me to take it?
Him- I take everything I feel, but that's just my honor.
Me- OK I'll take that one but your gonna have to hit me harder next time.
Him- *rolls eyes*
This was a vet who considers themselves a top tier fighter.
To me, honor is telling your opponent NOT to take a butterfly fart as a hit. Not trying to convince someone that taking them is somehow honorable.

One of the benefits to having different games with different rules is, when you want to fight a game where light touch shots are legal, there is a game for you. I get the feeling that some folks want to turn the various foam fighting games into one vanilla game with different names. The folks who like a hard hitting sport are watching tap fighters chip away at our rules to the point that the sport we love will no longer exist.

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 Post subject: Re: My Humble Apologies(Noticable Force in Dag)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 4:41 pm 
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I haven't stopped calling light at dag events and haven't had any problems from that. But yea, I haven't won any Tournies :D

Also notice, it says "solidly, with noticeable force" (or did the last time I looked, not sure now...) , so while still a BS rule change, it's maybe not as bad as it otherwise could be.

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 Post subject: Re: My Humble Apologies(Noticable Force in Dag)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 7:01 pm 
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Quote:
This was a vet who considers themselves a top tier fighter.

That's adorable.

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 Post subject: Re: My Humble Apologies(Noticable Force in Dag)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 7:48 pm 
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Dane wrote:
Quote:
This was a vet who considers themselves a top tier fighter.

That's adorable.


I feel like there are more self-proclaimed "top-tier vets" in Dagorhir than there are self-acknowledged "decent fighters".


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 Post subject: Re: My Humble Apologies(Noticable Force in Dag)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 7:54 pm 
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Big Jimmy wrote:
And just to show I'm not 100% prejudice, I met an AWESOME guy from the Jestigise (I'm positive that's spelled wrong) this weekend. I was shocked, but he was a really cool dude.


That was Iron Will. He came down with myself and Nova out from Philly. Evidently we talk up the Belegarth events enough to have convinced even a Gestiguiste to attend. He had a blast too, and plans to come to Octoberfest as well.

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 Post subject: Re: My Humble Apologies(Noticable Force in Dag)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 8:09 pm 
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This is crazy to me. The local Dag realm near us hits harder than most Bel realms. I get injured more at their practices than at any national events. Also, I just went to a Dag event recently where hit taking was a major problem...in the rhinos rules way, not the tappy happy way. Is this an east coast thing? or is it something that could happen but hasn't happened yet?

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 Post subject: Re: My Humble Apologies(Noticable Force in Dag)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 8:10 pm 
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Heh. I didn't realize he'd been stuck in the car with you guys that long. Must be why he was so friendly to everybody else.

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 Post subject: Re: My Humble Apologies(Noticable Force in Dag)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 9:37 pm 
Monkey
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I suspect that the calibration varies greatly by realm even within Dag. When Dragon Coast began, we were using an older Dag ruleset that still said "sufficient" so we ignored light hits. Even though the rules changed, we kept our original calibration and still ignore light hits.

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 Post subject: Re: My Humble Apologies(Noticable Force in Dag)
PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 8:06 am 
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Over the years I've seen a few organisations, small local ones, go through this to one degree or another.
A few * get a little power and start pushing thier agenda. In this case, the agenda is clearly lowwering hit calibration.
And it's working.
Quote:
I don't know one person who hits any differently or plays any differently because of the word 'noticeable'. Its a poor wording, and I don't know why its there, but it doesn't change Dagorhir. If you know of anyone whose actual *playing* experience of Dagorhir has changed because of this word choice, lemme know.

Athron, this is you, and you're experience.
Other people in this thread say they have DEFINETLY experienced lighter hit requiring Dag groups already. That's how it happens.
A few older vets go long, like BH said, and start TEACHING kids to fight lighter and saying **** retarded **** like"My honor says I take everything" and a few new realms start up every couple months fighting lighter and in a couple years, real fighters are pigeon-holed in there wn local groups becuase they aren't welcome at events becuase all the other Dag people think they are rhinos.
It's lame to throw out the "slippery slope" thing over and over, but it is absolutley true. It's happening right now.
Blackhawk, you not only are welcome to use my posts, you can use my camp. Come to Chaos Wars. We'll get drunk and * about how tough everyone was in the olden days.
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 Post subject: Re: My Humble Apologies(Noticable Force in Dag)
PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 8:27 am 
Brute
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From the MoA:

3.4.1 - Hits from hand-held weapons count when the weapon strikes solidly with noticeable force. NOTE: what constitutes a "solid strike" is necessarily subjective and thus relies on the honor of both the attacker and the person who is struck.

I think the crux lies on the "strikes solidly" part of the rule, and not the "noticeable force" part. That said, sufficient force is an infinitely better rule.

I'll just change my "Light" calls to "Not Solid" for the time being.


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 Post subject: Re: My Humble Apologies(Noticable Force in Dag)
PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 10:35 am 
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Arrakis wrote:
Dane wrote:
Quote:
This was a vet who considers themselves a top tier fighter.

That's adorable.


I feel like there are more self-proclaimed "top-tier vets" in Dagorhir than there are self-acknowledged "decent fighters".


That's adorable - and which group are you in?

Me, I used to be a decent fighter in multiple disciplines. Knew I wasn't going to be a top-tier fighter within weeks of starting out. So my goal was to be a reliable veteran who could bolster his side in a battle. Hopefully I did that.

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 Post subject: Re: My Humble Apologies(Noticable Force in Dag)
PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 11:09 am 
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Kyrax wrote:
Knew I wasn't going to be a top-tier fighter within weeks of starting out.


That is why you fail.

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 Post subject: Re: My Humble Apologies(Noticable Force in Dag)
PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 11:29 am 
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Gestiguiste, isnt that the unit that couldnt get a good fight in several tries at rag a few years back?lol, cnat wait to meet the guy, he is probibly the diamond in the rough.

most cheating is just bad communication, failing to explain what shots you are taking and where you are taking them. famous cheaters have no hips, everything below the arm pit is leg. also a famous cheat is the top of the shoulder being an arm. if you call out what you are taking and say no when you are not taking anyhting, most of the time you are not going to be accused of cheating. if you are not doing this start, you would be suprised at how it really helps the fighting process out.

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 Post subject: Re: My Humble Apologies(Noticable Force in Dag)
PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 11:29 am 
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edit: * double post:

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Last edited by bo1 on Tue Apr 20, 2010 1:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: My Humble Apologies(Noticable Force in Dag)
PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 12:05 pm 
Berserker
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Azgarehta wrote:
I think the crux lies on the "strikes solidly" part of the rule, and not the "noticeable force" part. That said, sufficient force is an infinitely better rule.

I'll just change my "Light" calls to "Not Solid" for the time being.

Part of the reason Fork started this thread was the recent discussion on the difference in rules for calling garb between the two sports. The dag rule in question was primarily created to prevent using a cloak as a shield, but apparently the official position of the war council was that if it hit your garb enough to notice it, it's a good hit so you should never call garb. That is definitely a nod toward the 'noticeable is enough' interpretation of this rule.

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 Post subject: Re: My Humble Apologies(Noticable Force in Dag)
PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 3:08 pm 
Underling
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I don't play Dag this way, and neither do most of the Dag people I know. The Dag forum poll indicated a desire to switch back to the original wording of 2:1. It was a bad wording that made it in last year, and it's probably going to get changed this year.


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 Post subject: Re: My Humble Apologies(Noticable Force in Dag)
PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 3:34 pm 
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Slagar wrote:
Kyrax wrote:
Knew I wasn't going to be a top-tier fighter within weeks of starting out.


That is why you fail.


Nah, just being realistic. :P

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 Post subject: Re: My Humble Apologies(Noticable Force in Dag)
PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 6:13 pm 
Berserker
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Dedric wrote:
I don't play Dag this way, and neither do most of the Dag people I know. The Dag forum poll indicated a desire to switch back to the original wording of 2:1. It was a bad wording that made it in last year, and it's probably going to get changed this year.

That is awesome! That right there is an update to the rules comparison I will look forward to making.

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 Post subject: Re: My Humble Apologies(Noticable Force in Dag)
PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 3:29 am 
Slayer
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Whatever is laying around.
Azgarehta wrote:
From the MoA:

3.4.1 - Hits from hand-held weapons count when the weapon strikes solidly with noticeable force. NOTE: what constitutes a "solid strike" is necessarily subjective and thus relies on the honor of both the attacker and the person who is struck.


You can't ignore that it is "strikes solidly" and "with noticeable force." If I were to visit a group that I didn't know, and I read that rule, I would interpret it as:

1. noticeable force --> force of hits I have to take (if I notice it, it's hard enough. Aka taps.)
2. weapon strikes solidly --> the hit has to connect solidly, aka glancing hits don't count.

*throws in 2c*

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 Post subject: Re: My Humble Apologies(Noticable Force in Dag)
PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 5:42 pm 
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Just for the record, as a herald at the O's, "light" is a perfectly legit call if the shot was light.


Or in the case you're swinging at me, I'll call everything light. :) or graze, depends on the mood.
See you guys in a couple weeks!


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 Post subject: Re: My Humble Apologies(Noticable Force in Dag)
PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 6:05 pm 
Underling
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LOL, Rune thats awesome, made my day. I would have been amazed if the olympics went tappy


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 Post subject: Re: My Humble Apologies(Noticable Force in Dag)
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 7:37 pm 
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Kyrax wrote:
Slagar wrote:
Kyrax wrote:
Knew I wasn't going to be a top-tier fighter within weeks of starting out.


That is why you fail.


Nah, just being realistic. :P


to be fair anyone can be a good fighter, i mean look at slagar, everyone literally thought he was retarded when i saw him at his first event. look at him now

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 Post subject: Re: My Humble Apologies(Noticable Force in Dag)
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 6:25 am 
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Titan G wrote:
Kyrax wrote:
Slagar wrote:

That is why you fail.


Nah, just being realistic. :P


to be fair anyone can be a good fighter, i mean look at slagar, everyone literally thought he was retarded when i saw him at his first event. look at him now

Rember when larpy first started everyone thought....oh never mind :P

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 Post subject: Re: My Humble Apologies(Noticable Force in Dag)
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 6:30 am 
Slayer
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Psh. I still look retarded.

So, Olympics:

It was fine. The heralds (mostly Rune and Oof) were big solid guys, and didn't take tappy *, or expect anyone else to. I had Rune himself call at least one or two of my shots light. No worries, Midwest Dagorhir is alive and kicking.
To be fair, I did run into a bit of the Eryndor-esque "I don't believe in calling any shot light" crap, but mostly from cool guys who didn't expect me to do the same. While I do hate that a lot, it's been the case forever and we have some of those in Belegarth too.


Now get off the keyboards and go hit people.

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 Post subject: Re: My Humble Apologies(Noticable Force in Dag)
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 12:19 pm 
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Titan G wrote:
Kyrax: "Knew I wasn't going to be a top-tier fighter within weeks of starting out."

Slagar: "That is why you fail."

Kyrax: "Nah, just being realistic. :P"

to be fair anyone can be a good fighter, i mean look at slagar, everyone literally thought he was retarded when i saw him at his first event. look at him now



I know you posted to poke fun at someone else. But my point wasn't that I couldn't be a good fighter, just that I knew I'd never be the best in all of foam fighting. So I set my goal to be the best fighter that I could, to have an impact on the field and be an asset to my team. And I think that I achieved that goal for a long time. Now I just have to work with the tools I've got, so: "age and treachery may best youth and speed any day..."

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 Post subject: Re: My Humble Apologies(Noticable Force in Dag)
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 1:53 pm 
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This is my opinion.

I am a Dagorhir fighter and have been playing for a few years now. My old unit does not follow this fairy or feather tap ****, nor does realm in Las Vegas that I currently play with. I do not personally know of a group that follows this "interpretation" and this problem has to do with one big word: COMMUNICATION:D

As far as I know Dag is trying to change the rule back:

http://www.dagorhir.com/forums/index.php?topic=13788.0

I just recently became aware of Belegarth and to me this war is **** the most stupid thing I have ever seen. Bel and dag are the same game with a few different rules and attitudes. Dag has more Roleplayers and Bel has more stick jocks. However this doesn't define the two separate groups, we are the same game and we are the same people just wanting to enjoy hitting each other with foam sticks. Come on this is for fun, we hit each other with foam on a stick! Lets leave the politics and the rules as secondary. If there is an issue, it needs to be communicated about. There is no reason to get * hurt over this crap.

The unit I am in is considered both a dag and bel group. The moment I am forced to play a feather tap game, is the moment I play only Belegarth. Coming from me, I am originally Dag in faith.

However, what I believe Dag officials had in mind when they did this was so: I think they were trying to make the game more playable and fair by eliminating the rhino hiders with the mentality of "if people aren't going to take hits, then lets make them all hits." Again this comes down to communication. There is no real definition of light, medium, hard hits. All groups and people have different interpretations of this.

This rule change effect was because of the high headed guys who happen to be in charge. Not Dagorhir as a whole. There is no reason to look down on Dag groups because we are not all the same and from my knowledge and opinion, most of us who have no say in the politics ****, don't agree with the change.

Don't take it personally, talk to the Dag group you are playing with, see the general opinions before playing and im sure there should be no problems and few differences. There is no reason we can't get along nor have some fun together regardless of the label of the name of the game.

I meant none of this offensively, if anyone has an issue, feel free to PM me. Hope everyone has a good day! Looking forward to seeing you at Yestare!


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 Post subject: Re: My Humble Apologies(Noticable Force in Dag)
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 2:52 pm 
Underling
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Isk wrote:
...apparently the official position of the war council was that if it hit your garb enough to notice it, it's a good hit so you should never call garb. That is definitely a nod toward the 'noticeable is enough' interpretation of this rule.


I've played a lot of Dagorhir all over the east coast in the last year, and I have never encountered this interpretation anywhere.

To the OP: I don't think it's accurate to build a comparison between Dag and Bel's rulesets based on a single line from our rulebook. The Bel fighters I've met have been just as much a mixed bag as the Dag fighters I know. Some hit beautifully hard, some are total tap fighters, and most are somewhere in the respectable range.


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 Post subject: Re: My Humble Apologies(Noticable Force in Dag)
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 3:02 pm 
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Alric wrote:
Isk wrote:
...apparently the official position of the war council was that if it hit your garb enough to notice it, it's a good hit so you should never call garb. That is definitely a nod toward the 'noticeable is enough' interpretation of this rule.


I've played a lot of Dagorhir all over the east coast in the last year, and I have never encountered this interpretation anywhere.

To the OP: I don't think it's accurate to build a comparison between Dag and Bel's rulesets based on a single line from our rulebook. The Bel fighters I've met have been just as much a mixed bag as the Dag fighters I know. Some hit beautifully hard, some are total tap fighters, and most are somewhere in the respectable range.



I agree. No doubt.


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 Post subject: Re: My Humble Apologies(Noticable Force in Dag)
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 5:51 pm 
Berserker
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Alric wrote:
Isk wrote:
...apparently the official position of the war council was that if it hit your garb enough to notice it, it's a good hit so you should never call garb. That is definitely a nod toward the 'noticeable is enough' interpretation of this rule.
I've played a lot of Dagorhir all over the east coast in the last year, and I have never encountered this interpretation anywhere.

To the OP: I don't think it's accurate to build a comparison between Dag and Bel's rulesets based on a single line from our rulebook. The Bel fighters I've met have been just as much a mixed bag as the Dag fighters I know. Some hit beautifully hard, some are total tap fighters, and most are somewhere in the respectable range.
Alric, the comparison discussion has been going on forever and the horse couldn't even be used for glue anymore. I have to say that my experience has been different. I haven't fought any tap fighters yet among the dag or bel fighters I have faced in the last year since I returned to the game. In an effort to make something useful for both games we have built a full comparison table that you might find interesting. It was built in order to outline exactly, minutely, what the differences in rules are so that anyone from either game can cross-game with a minimum of frustration.

Now, my statement that you quoted is based on this post, which I linked there but I guess I should have copied instead:
Squire Dacian wrote:
<rant>

Yeah, I was at that War Council when they voted on it...I wanted to gouge my eyes out with a hot poker when it passed unanimously.

In Dag, you CANNOT call garb. Calling garb means that you acknowledged, and NOTICED, the weapon came in contact (even just your clothes) and as such, it had "noticeable" force. This drives me up the **** wall.

There's a lot of cool dudes out there who don't enforce this, but some take it as being the same as "nope, not taking that shot", instead of "that was close, but it didn't hit me".

</rant>
As has been discussed here and in a couple of other threads, this is rarely the way the Dagorhir chapters actually play, but it is EXACTLY what the rule says.
Dagorhir Manual of Arms wrote:
4.10.2 - If a blow strikes a sheathed weapon (i.e., one that is attached/hanging from one's belt or over one's back) or any other worn object, including baggy clothing such as cloaks, the attack is considered to have hit the fighter. A weapon must be in a fighter's hand to intercept an attack.
Caretaker, good to see you here and I am looking forward to seeing you and the rest of the Black Lions at Yestare as well!

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